Hi,

Tried a mini 4-swarm today, with soontir on the side.

While I understand formation flying and basics, how would you advise the tactics of flying a swarm?

Against what do I want to be at range 3 of? What should be Range 1? (rule of 11).

What's the best way to consider the following turn's K-turns?

When do I take evades on the Academies versus Focuses?

How do I maneuver when engaging a large ship with maybe one or two wingmen behind it? (One match I had a wingman basically stopping two of my ships from being able to do K-turns.)

Versus what builds should I put center asteroids? Or even better, where should I put asteroids to benefit me?

--

Here's the build (critique?):

Soontir - Hull PTL

Howl - SwarmTac Hull

Black Squadron - SwarmTac

Back Stabber

Academy

Against what do I want to be at range 3 of? What should be Range 1? (rule of 11).

Being at Range 3 sucks, in general. The enemy gets more use out of the range advantage than you do, as they have more attacks to dodge. Moreover, this is when the dreaded counter-measures hit the hardest. Assault Missiles and the Heavy Laser Cannon both ignore the R3 bonus die, so they hit as hard here as they would at Range 2.

Being at Range 1 is when you get kills. Every ship ever dies at Range 1 swarm-fire. Even in the worse-case scenario, they only kill 1 ship. Being at Range 1 is also the safest spot for Tie Fighters. You're safe from Assault Missiles, and you can barrel-roll out of a firing arc if you need to. You are, however, very vulnerable to Bombs (Seismic Charges and Proton Bombs) if you let your quarry live to drop them the next turn.

Also, the "Rule of 11" only matters if both players are flying directly at each other, which almost never happens. You've got barrel-rolls, which can +/- your maneuver distances by .5, and also shifting you 2 ships'-widths to one side. Use that.

What's the best way to consider the following turn's K-turns?

Stroking your goatee, occasionally pointing at their ship with the stem of your pipe.

When do I take evades on the Academies versus Focuses?

When you are terrified of taking damage and rolling fewer than 4 Green dice at a time.

When unafraid, the offensive Focus is better.

When terrified and at 4 dice, Focus averages the same dodged damage, but with fewer outliers (i.e. it has a better chance of dodging 2, 3 or 4 damage, but cannot dodge 5, and has a minor chance of not dodging any).

How do I maneuver when engaging a large ship with maybe one or two wingmen behind it? (One match I had a wingman basically stopping two of my ships from being able to do K-turns.)

If you're being chased, or otherwise think performing a Koiogran unwise, perform a Matador turn instead. This is done by performing a 1 turn, then barrel-rolling back into the curve of the turn, overlapping your original position. They rocket past, and you still have a shot at them.

Also, you've got a Swarm. You ought to make more use out of a Blocking tactic than they do. Stick one TIE fighter where the big-guy'll get stuck, and the rest of your ships smiling at Range 1. Melt the bastard in 2 rounds.

Versus what builds should I put center asteroids? Or even better, where should I put asteroids to benefit me?

How good are you at making it through an asteroid thicket effectively? How good is your opponent? Fleetstrengths vs Fleetstrengths don't matter as much as player advantages.

Also, this is something you can work on without opponents. Scatter an absurd number of asteroids on a table (like, 12), and practice maneuvering your entire swarm. Put a focus token somewhere at random, and try to get everyone to have a Range 1 shot on it without hitting a single asteroid. Repeat. Think of it like a game of X-Wing Snake. Or Golf. SnaGolfke?

Once you get good at playing with asteroids, you should start playing with the fleets you have trouble against. Do they have an easier time at Sgonlakef than the Swarm did? Worse? That ought to tell you your answer.

Here's the build (critique?):

Soontir - Hull PTL

Howl - SwarmTac Hull

Black Squadron - SwarmTac

Back Stabber

Academy

More ties > upgraded ties.

If we leave Soontir Fel alone, and strip off the upgrades, you've got Howlrunner, 3 Academy Pilots, enough points for a 4th, and a point left over.

Black Squadron + Swarm Tactics only serves to pass Howlrunner's Swarm Tactics off to another ship... either Backstabber or an Academy Pilot. Once Howlrunner dies (and die she ought, as she's got the most damaging ability in the game. Remember when I was talking about "Terrified of damage"? She's in this mode all the time), Black Squadron can only benefit... a single Academy pilot. This is not good enough. For 16 points, you could have gotten Dark Curse, but 12 and 4 floaters will still be better.

Backstabber is designed to be a Flanker. You've already spent 33 points on the most badass flanker in the Empire (Fel), so Backstabber's going to be stuck on Howlrunner Babysitting duty. Dark Curse would be better, but going with the cheaper alternatives would be even better than that.

Howlrunner doesn't want Swarm Tactics. Pulling a (or 2 in your original build) TIE fighters to 8 PS isn't an offensive boost strong enough to keep her alive longer. 3 would do it, but that would require demoting Soontir Fel, who can never benefit from this.

Howlrunner DOES want extra HP. However, you as a commander would like 2 points of that Hull Upgrade to go with the 10 you've already pulled, to forge a new Academy Pilot. More ties is better than fewer, particularly when they're flying around Howlrunner. She'd prefer a good EPT instead, though.

Now, Baron Fel has a Hull Upgrade that we might make him willing to part with for Howlrunner's sake. Alternatively, he could trade himself out for Turr Phennir, who can use PTL off of his in-combat free-action to do both Boost AND Barrel-roll, or one and evade, in combat. Sneaky ninja.

Anyway, that's 6 points that we can think about re-adjusting between Howlrunner and your Interceptor Flanker of choice.

I leave you with an adjusted fleet-list of:

Howlrunner

4x Academy Pilot

Fel/Fennir

+PTL

4/6 points of upgrades spread between the Interceptor and Howlrunner.

Against what do I want to be at range 3 of? What should be Range 1? (rule of 11).

Unless you are packing high PS Squints, or vastly outnumber your opponent, Range 2 is ideal for you. It plays to your high agility.

What's the best way to consider the following turn's K-turns?

Try to avoid K-Turns whenever possible. Barrel rolls and hard turns are your friend.

When do I take evades on the Academies versus Focuses?

When you roll evades as bad as I do.

Focus is usually the better choice.

How do I maneuver when engaging a large ship with maybe one or two wingmen behind it? (One match I had a wingman basically stopping two of my ships from being able to do K-turns.)

Again, K-Turns are bad, plan your movement 1 turn in advance, minimum.

Versus what builds should I put center asteroids? Or even better, where should I put asteroids to benefit me?

Against builds where you have superior mobility/movement options. It can also be fun sometimes to do it against builds with 2-3 large ships.

If you're being chased, or otherwise think performing a Koiogran unwise, perform a Matador turn instead. This is done by performing a 1 turn, then barrel-rolling back into the curve of the turn, overlapping your original position. They rocket past, and you still have a shot at them.

I keep reading this, but I just somehow can't picture exactly how to do this Matador turn. Can someone diagram it for me??

Alternately, here is a solid mini swarm.

Howlrunner (Swarm Tactics)

Mauler Mithel (Swarm Tactics)

Academy TIE

Academy TIE

Pair with:

Soontir Fel (Push the Limit, Royal Guard, Targeting Computer, Shield Upgrade)

The mini swarm is one less point than the one you are using (banked for initiative), and much more effective at being a "main threat" to focus on while Soontir prowls the flanks. Soontir is optimized to survive a surprise shot his way if the opponent decides to turn towards him, and also to do a tremendous amount of damage when firing from the flanks. The swarm is designed to close directly to range 1, deny the opponent actions by moving the Academy TIEs into place early, then fire before losing ships. It will hit anything in front of it very hard, and very early. At range 1 it fires 13 very accurate dice and should be able to consistently destroy any ship short of a YT-1300 in a single volley, which will reduce return fire significantly. Just don't make the mistake of firing at anything other than the nearest, easiest target they can all draw a bead on.

K-Turning is not really in the cards, you want to do a lot of self-inflicted bumping and keep your ships in front of them as long as possible. This will force your opponent to deal with your swarm, leaving Soontir free to rampage around the flank and rear. If you find yourself at point blank and touching with room to K-Turn your whole mini swarm behind them then go ahead and do so, but if you have any room at all between you then bump (maybe have one of your Academy TIEs do a matador turn in front of your own swarm, to provide a "speed bump" to slow the others down by bumping him intentionally) and force them to choose whether to face the swarm or face Soontir.

As for evades? Don't take them. It's really that simple with a blocking swarm like this one. The very marginal increase in defense is not worth the large decrease in offense. Focus up, spend it to maximize damage, and hammer shots home. The only time I would consider evade is if I know for certain that I won't get a shot this turn.

Kinetic Operator is once again on point. I might steal that squad myself.

" If you're being chased, or otherwise think performing a Koiogran unwise, perform a Matador turn instead. This is done by performing a 1 turn, then barrel-rolling back into the curve of the turn, overlapping your original position. They rocket past, and you still have a shot at them.

Also, you've got a Swarm. You ought to make more use out of a Blocking tactic than they do. Stick one TIE fighter where the big-guy'll get stuck, and the rest of your ships smiling at Range 1. Melt the bastard in 2 rounds."

By DraconPyrothayan

(Your name is super hard to spell! haha)

Thanks for the tips. That Matador turn looks really cool.

Perhaps it would be cool if someone could better explain EFFECTIVELY using blocking. I always end up giving my opponents good shots instead, and my ships are not in good places to take advantage of the blocking.

Or if there's a video/tutorial already. I don't think I saw one in the series I usually watch for SWX.

Also, don't you guys ever worry that if you come into R1 (and R2 for Howl likely) that Howl is going to get toasted before really modifying any dice? I never quite understood that.

" If you're being chased, or otherwise think performing a Koiogran unwise, perform a Matador turn instead. This is done by performing a 1 turn, then barrel-rolling back into the curve of the turn, overlapping your original position. They rocket past, and you still have a shot at them.

Also, you've got a Swarm. You ought to make more use out of a Blocking tactic than they do. Stick one TIE fighter where the big-guy'll get stuck, and the rest of your ships smiling at Range 1. Melt the bastard in 2 rounds."

By DraconPyrothayan

(Your name is super hard to spell! haha)

Thanks for the tips. That Matador turn looks really cool.

Perhaps it would be cool if someone could better explain EFFECTIVELY using blocking. I always end up giving my opponents good shots instead, and my ships are not in good places to take advantage of the blocking.

Or if there's a video/tutorial already. I don't think I saw one in the series I usually watch for SWX.

You coooould just hit the "Quote" button in the lower right corner of my post instead, but that works too

The trick to Blocking is to have a multi-turn view of things. Where is there ship going? Where will it want to go the turn after that? Where can I put my ship to prevent that this turn, at an angle to prevent it next turn? On the second round of Blocking, should I block with a new ship, and let my first one Koiogran, or block with the first again?

Decisions decisions.

I find it way easier to do this in the end-game. A single Academy can keep a much more potent enemy ship out of the game for ages, simply by not letting it drift with the flow of combat. And when he's loosed, my Swarm will be well-fed, yet still hungry.

_____________________________________________________________________Quote Button \/

Blocking is something that a great many players struggle with, both offensively and defensively. It is not about trying to guess where your opponent is going, it is about controlling where your opponent is going. I went top 16 at Worlds with Rebel Convoy, a list whose entire premise is blocking and control. Here is a write up on the list and how to use it that you should be able to glean a great deal of information from when it comes to blocking in general. You can then apply those techniques any time and with any list when you wish to employ or counter blocking.

http://teamcovenant.com/origen/2013/11/13/control-control-you-must-learn-control/

" If you're being chased, or otherwise think performing a Koiogran unwise, perform a Matador turn instead. This is done by performing a 1 turn, then barrel-rolling back into the curve of the turn, overlapping your original position. They rocket past, and you still have a shot at them.

Also, you've got a Swarm. You ought to make more use out of a Blocking tactic than they do. Stick one TIE fighter where the big-guy'll get stuck, and the rest of your ships smiling at Range 1. Melt the bastard in 2 rounds."

By DraconPyrothayan

(Your name is super hard to spell! haha)

Thanks for the tips. That Matador turn looks really cool.

Perhaps it would be cool if someone could better explain EFFECTIVELY using blocking. I always end up giving my opponents good shots instead, and my ships are not in good places to take advantage of the blocking.

Or if there's a video/tutorial already. I don't think I saw one in the series I usually watch for SWX.

You coooould just hit the "Quote" button in the lower right corner of my post instead, but that works too

The trick to Blocking is to have a multi-turn view of things. Where is there ship going? Where will it want to go the turn after that? Where can I put my ship to prevent that this turn, at an angle to prevent it next turn? On the second round of Blocking, should I block with a new ship, and let my first one Koiogran, or block with the first again?

Decisions decisions.

I find it way easier to do this in the end-game. A single Academy can keep a much more potent enemy ship out of the game for ages, simply by not letting it drift with the flow of combat. And when he's loosed, my Swarm will be well-fed, yet still hungry.

_____________________________________________________________________Quote Button \/

Cool, thank you both. Yes I knew it exists, but Dracon's last post was very long so I didn't want to quote it all.

Yeah. I think a video demonstration might be helpful for me to visualize what is going on.

I know its easier in the late game where you only have a few interactions to deal with, and I can do that effectively, but I was wondering about it earlier in the game mostly.

Will look.

Cool, thank you both. Yes I knew it exists, but Dracon's last post was very long so I didn't want to quote it all.

You can edit quoted text after it is in the quote box, as I just did.

Oh gods.

There are two things I'm VERY bad at:

Planning moves ahead

and spatial positioning.

*should give up this game now. lol.

I was absolutely terrible at Chess. In that game I cannot see even into the turn after. In X-Wing, I can predict about for 1.5 rounds. Is there any good way to think about this or better conceptualize it?

I'm really decent at games that aren't about future spatial positioning. Such as Starcraft or Magic. Complete ease.

Cool, thank you both. Yes I knew it exists, but Dracon's last post was very long so I didn't want to quote it all.

You can edit quoted text after it is in the quote box, as I just did.

Apparently I'm learning a lot today. =)

You coooould just hit the "Quote" button in the lower right corner of my post instead, but that works too

Screw that noise, from now on I insist that everybody use footnotes when responding to my comments.*

*WAAAGH, Wonder. Humorous / Informative Comment. Space Ork Press. FFG X-Wing forum, 2014.

Oh gods.

There are two things I'm VERY bad at:

Planning moves ahead

and spatial positioning.

*should give up this game now. lol.

I was absolutely terrible at Chess. In that game I cannot see even into the turn after. In X-Wing, I can predict about for 1.5 rounds. Is there any good way to think about this or better conceptualize it?

I'm really decent at games that aren't about future spatial positioning. Such as Starcraft or Magic. Complete ease.

• Every maneuver you can perform is currently in your firing arc.

• When performing a Turn, draw a mental line from corner to corner on your ship. Your final position will be on that line.

• When performing a Bank, draw a mental line from the back-corner of your ship to dead-center of the front. Your final position will be on that line.

• Small based ships are a square with sides of a 1 forward template, before adding the Nubs.

• Large-based ships are a square with the sides of a 2 forward template, before adding the Nubs.

• When choosing your maneuver, keep the viewing wedge of your dial facing the same direction as your firing arc, so you don't accidentally pick a bad maneuver.

• Low PS is more likely to execute their maneuver in full, as the board-state hasn't change as much from planning to activation.

Oh gods.

There are two things I'm VERY bad at:

Planning moves ahead

and spatial positioning.

*should give up this game now. lol.

I was absolutely terrible at Chess. In that game I cannot see even into the turn after. In X-Wing, I can predict about for 1.5 rounds. Is there any good way to think about this or better conceptualize it?

I'm really decent at games that aren't about future spatial positioning. Such as Starcraft or Magic. Complete ease.

Others have suggested the asteroid course, and it really helps. Put about a dozen asteroids on the map, then put half a dozen focus tokens scattered around as well. Then, take a ship of your choice. Try to land on all the focus tokens without hitting the asteroids in the least number of moves. Doing this a few times will really help you learn to see how ships move, since you can follow up your dial with an immediate move and vice/versa without intervening events.

Now, as for conceptualizing and planning. You don't really need to look more than 1 turn ahead, at least most of the time. The first thing you need to do is mentally switch sides. Look at the board, and plan moves for your opponents ship as if they were your own. Most people are pretty good at figuring out a good way to get their guns pointed at badguys, all you need to do here is play their ships in your head. Now, mentally go back to your own ships. This time, plan out what you need to do in order to point guns at badguys, considering you have perfect knowledge of where those ships are going to move.

Over time, and against better players, you will start to switch sides repeatedly in order to move/countermove in your head, but start with the basics and wait on that until you have it down pat. Good luck, I hope you enjoy the journey.

I've done the asteroid course a few times. Getting better all the time. Especially with bombers, which are my go-to fun list.

The question is more "upper-level" tactics in learning to predict blocking moves and choosing the right choice between two seemingly similar probable events.

Now, another question: Let's say I'm doing a swarm vs swarm matchup. Do I want initiative? and why? (Or even, what variants of swarm would want it?)

I've done the asteroid course a few times. Getting better all the time. Especially with bombers, which are my go-to fun list.

The question is more "upper-level" tactics in learning to predict blocking moves and choosing the right choice between two seemingly similar probable events.

Now, another question: Let's say I'm doing a swarm vs swarm matchup. Do I want initiative? and why? (Or even, what variants of swarm would want it?)

If you are going Swarm v Swarm, and Howlrunner's involved, you desperately want Initiative.

If your academy pilots take out their Howlrunner, their academy pilots don't get her bonus, even though they shoot "simultaneously".

If you rely on blocking or on a heavy-action strategy, you want initiative. Academy Pilots are the 2nd best blockers in the game (behind the BlockORS), Having the action-advantage in such a match-up is huge.

If you're flying a Rebel Swarm of some sort, you do NOT want initiative. A lot of your damage will come through picking up early target-locks, which is far easier when moving second.

If you're running a swarmlet, it depends on the preferences of the non-swarm ships.

I'm gonna echo this mini-swarm list:

Howlrunner

Mauler Mithel

Academy Tie x2.

I like to run this with Swarm Tactics on both Mauler and Howlrunner. (Just don't forget to declare it at the beginning of the combat phase!)

Then I like to fly Backstabber and something else off to the side. That way your main mini-swarm is the focus, and primary damage dealer, and Backstabber can get at them from the side.

I also like it because once you get in close with the mini-swarm, Mauler starts excelling, forcing your opponent to choose between Howlrunner, Backstabber, or Mauler, each of which is pretty scary at close range.