To anwser the original question I would say the fleets get as big as the RT in question both want and are able to make them, HOWEVER a large RT fleet is not realisitcally going to be in one place all at once. Most of the other ships are going to be charter vessels making milk runs or captained by trusted vassels and bannermen off protecting various interests, conducting business and working on approved side projects.

My players are getting really expansive and ambitious about their fleet and I've basically told them that's fine but very few tasks are going to justify the deployment of more than one to three of their favorites and subsequently rolling around with an entourage of ten ships is going to be anti-profitable for most tasks.

Yeah, it was kinda weird we didn't get the generic Rogue Trader cruiser. It's not that different stats-wise.

THe 'Rogue Trader' cruiser is actually just a regular Imperial Cruiser hull but in the style of ships launched at Kar Duniash as opposed to Cypra Mundi, Mars or Voss. Based on the artwork, the Sovreign Venture is a Kar Duniash built ship.

Whilst the cruiser and the escort pictured in the middle (a cobra) are heavily modified, i think the other two ships were meant to represent either modified civilian ships, salvaged ancient ships or even xenos ships.

I always felt the idea of buying the same set of ships as everyone else to represent what was meant to be a singularly unique rogue trader's fleet was a bit odd and that if you really wanted to field an RT fleet you should convert other models.

Yeah, I noticed that foremost frigate didn't look terribly Imperial- it has the flattened look of Tau small craft and vehicles, but they tend to be broader.

Speaking of profitable fleets, it occurs to me that the acquisition of an additional ship could be a minor endeavour in and of itself. From that perspective, it seems to me that each cargo/commerce vessel acquired and tasked to commercial duties might provide bonus profit factor, or reduce losses to profit factor from events.

Do you think that would encourage your group to back off the fleet-building and focus on making that pile of thrones?

Well quite often having other ships to scout warp routes, ferry cargo or troops or provide escort will equate down to one thing simply - less outlay in acquisitions for an endeavour and thus more raw profit at the end.

Yeah, I noticed that foremost frigate didn't look terribly Imperial- it has the flattened look of Tau small craft and vehicles, but they tend to be broader.

Speaking of profitable fleets, it occurs to me that the acquisition of an additional ship could be a minor endeavour in and of itself. From that perspective, it seems to me that each cargo/commerce vessel acquired and tasked to commercial duties might provide bonus profit factor, or reduce losses to profit factor from events.

Do you think that would encourage your group to back off the fleet-building and focus on making that pile of thrones?

I don'y know about how other groups handle the purchasing of ships but it is something of a minor endeavor for our group. We generally have to make an inquiry check just to see what is available in any given market before moving on to the actual acquisition roll. That is fairly minor.

To get our Repulsive GCs we had to really get on the Navy's good side and had to run several missions to do so. After that we still traded in a ton of captured ships and had to convince the Navy we would use the ships wisely. And for good. Something about responsibility was also thrown in there but then we all just laughed.

My latest group drew up (all RAW) a ship with about 2500 points in achievement points bonuses. Needless to say, it broke the game before they cast off on their first voyage. I didn't want to penalize them for intelligent ship design so I needed ways to get them to spend their PF. I charged them for colonies (and then Stars of Inequity came out, so cool) and I charged them for Acquisition bonuses (RAW) and still I needed more, so I started charging them for the outright purchase of ships. Refits from captures was another thing altogether, but outright purchase was 20% of total SPs, and they didn't get to design those ships (but of course they refitted them to outrageous standards). Still, after over 2 years of playing bi-weekly sessions they have a PF of about 120-130.

Ah you must be referring to this set of ships. Google image search is your friend.

Yes that's the one!

As to the 'Generic' RT Cruiser, I don't think that's the case. I believe the vessel in this case is supposed to represent a Star Galleon like the Conquest class.

As to why the Flagship would be "free" is simple. The Flagship is always assumed to be paying for itself from the activities it is undertaking to increase PF!

My latest group drew up (all RAW) a ship with about 2500 points in achievement points bonuses. Needless to say, it broke the game before they cast off on their first voyage. I didn't want to penalize them for intelligent ship design so I needed ways to get them to spend their PF. I charged them for colonies (and then Stars of Inequity came out, so cool) and I charged them for Acquisition bonuses (RAW) and still I needed more, so I started charging them for the outright purchase of ships. Refits from captures was another thing altogether, but outright purchase was 20% of total SPs, and they didn't get to design those ships (but of course they refitted them to outrageous standards). Still, after over 2 years of playing bi-weekly sessions they have a PF of about 120-130.

Wow, what was that design? I'm really curious now

Orion Star Clipper

Speed: 11

Maneuverability: +30

Detection: +10

Hull Integrity: 32

Armor: 0

Turret Rating: 1

Power: 40

Space: 40

SP: 70

Population: 102

Morale: 100

Crew Rating: 30

Planet-bound for Millenia: +10 Maneuverability within 5 VUs of a planet

Component

Power

Space

SP

Notes

Modified Lathe 1 Drive

(40)

8

*

+1 speed

Bridge of Antiquity

1

1

2

+10 Command and Social, +5 Maneuver

BC Miloslav Warp Engines

7

9

2

x2 Warp speed, encounters every 3 days

Warpsbane Hull

1

0

2

Navigation (Warp) +10, roll twice and choose

GC Repulsor Shield

5

1

1

No maneuver penalty for celestial phenom

BC Vitae Pattern Life Sustainer

3

1

2

GC Voidsmen Quarters

1

2

1

GC M-100 Augur Array

2

0

1

Main Cargo Hold

2

*

*

8 x GC Luxury Passenger Quarters

8

8

16

GC Tenebro Maze

1

1

3

+10 Command v. Hit & Run, choose crits

GC Empyrean Mantle

2

0

3

Silent Running +2 degrees

Teleportarium

1

1

1

GC Arboretum

1

2

2

+2 pop, x2 endurance

GC Voss Torpedo Tubes

1

4

2

BC Disruption Macrocannon

4

2

4

+1 strength, +1 damage

Achievement Bonuses:

Trade 925

Creed 800

Criminal 850

That's 2,575 Achievement Points. It was drawn up using the Warrant Path, and while we didn't originally play using Mathhammer, we have been now for quite some time. I didn't let them have the full bonuses after the first endeavor and I made them spend considerable effort finding colonists to fill their passenger quarters with. Still, as you can see it was quite a challenge.

Edit: Ok, that sucked the way it changed my easily read table.

Errant Knight, pardon the nit-pick but I don't think that build is legal, RAW. Specifically, the luxury passenger quarters (and nearly all the other items) are one per ship. Check the errata; a whole mess of upgrades got that little dagger icon that means one only.

Cheers,

- V.

My errata says that Additional Components are limited to 1 per ship, not Supplemental Components. If Supplemental Components were 1 per ship you wouldn't be able to load multiple weapons-types. Luxury Passenger Quarters are listed under Supplemental Components - Cargo Holds and Passenger Components, not Supplemental Components - Additional Facilities.. I wish you were right, but unless my book and errata are old and outdated (errat v. 1.4), that ship is legal RAW.

I believe you are quoting this passage...

That's not a warship, that's a luxury passenger liner. They're flying the Titanic. Holy Jesus.

Side note: Yeah, looks legal to me. Also hilarious, so I'd have let them roll with it anyway, probably.

As a post-script I'd point out the ship no longer exists. But it lasted long enough to make the party very very wealthy. It also caused them to permanently burn a few Fate Points each. Explosions and implosions tend to have that effect.

...I'm not seeing a convincing argument for "not the Titanic" there.

I wasn't going to touch that comment. It was entirely appropriate. If you'd said it 3 years ago, I'd have even called in prophetic.

What they'd do, ram a comet?

No. The clipper stood in the line of battle against a Chaos squadron that included 2 cruisers and a light cruiser. The Good Guys' battle line consisted of a cruiser kitted out as a gunship, a light cruiser kitted out as an invasion vessel, and the Orion. The Orion was vaporized and the light cruiser was practically hulked. They wound up capturing the Chaos light cruiser, also a wreck, and a few Chaos Iconoclasts. The remainder of the Chaos squadron withdrew. There was no pursuit as the all the PCs with decent Tech Use were on the Orion (burning Fate Points for deus ex machina escape pods) and the remaining PCs couldn't pull a decent roll for Flank Speed. All in all, I'd call it a Pyrrhic victory.

As to the 'Generic' RT Cruiser, I don't think that's the case. I believe the vessel in this case is supposed to represent a Star Galleon like the Conquest class.

As stated above, fluff has repeatedly made clear this is a standard lunar style hull as built at Kar Duniash.

The actual fleet moving with the RT her/himself is generally going to be small - perhaps a cap/flag ship and a few support vessels/escorts. My last campaign playing as the RT, I kept my flag on an old, decrepit Lunar-class that was escorted by an Endeavor-class and 2 Swords along with 1 Goliath Factory Ship. The Dynasty's fleet was comprised of many more vessels, but the majority were assigned to NPC tasks - i.e. trade routes, asset defense, on loan to Battlefleet Koronus, etc...

That felt like the right way to do it. But, hey, that's just me.

I'm partly in agreement, Traejun. I'd think the ships out there supporting the Dynasty would at least double or triple the number of ships in the flag squadron. Still, my ideal flag squadron would include at least 1 big gunship, 1 carrier, a dedicated invasion vessel, a half dozen merchant ships performing various functions, and a half dozen escorts.

Falchions make wonderful escorts for Grand Cruisers, but iconoclasts also work well.

Well... we have a frigate...

I've always preferred a nice Sword Frigate over a Cruiser, because I like to dart around (dart meaning lumbering about less than normal with those lovely retro-thrusters)more than I like the thrill of giving someone multiple broadsides of plasma and then a lance battery. That sentence looks outright foolish and downright non-RT when I look at it. Oh, who am I kidding, Tyrant Class For The Win!