Hi guys. I'm new to the forums and came to ask a question or two. My RT group is in a position where we can stop focusing on the flag ship and start building up a fleet. Due to houserules and a recent massive shuffling of ships, we now have 2 Repulsive Grandcruiers and 1 Universe Mass Conveyor. We have room for 4 ships of SP 29 or less value.

However, my question is: How big do RT fleets get? I mean personal ones that are following the RT around. Because Whitescale, Chorda and Saul in particular have massive Dynastic fleets but they can't be following the RT around all the time. Someone has to do the boring trade runs and someone else has to run escort. So out of the possibly hundreds of ships at an established RT's disposal, what is a good size for general RTing?

The big problem with massive fleets is any time you have to travel anywhere, you have to enter the Hellscape that is the Warp, and there's no guarantee that your ships are going to end up all at the same location. I created a house rule that ships can stick near each other in the Warp, but when doing so every Navigator on each vessel makes a separate Navigation Warp test, and then the whole fleet is affected by the worst result. I believe that by RAW there's no way to do this, meaning if you go somewhere you have no idea when your fleet is going to emerge from the Warp.

Thus in general my players have one ship each per mission, and then if needed they will set course with a larger fleet to deal with invasions or recalcitrant colonies. They try to have two Escorts (Raiders to Light Cruisers ) per capital ship (Cruiser+), and then usually a couple of Tranports thrown in for troops, looting or repairs. Their specific invasion fleet is two raiders, three Frigates, one Light Cruiser, and three Cruisers.

Most of the time though since PCs are so much better than NPCs, they stick aboard their Light Cruiser and destroy everything with their Star-Flare lance.

RT fleets usally are very small, usally nothing larger than ten ships. Unless you plan on having this insane naval battle that is an epic story development. Almost always you will only need one ship for just traveling around and doing your thing, and keep in mind these ships are huge even the smalest of classes, they are huge. Hope that answers that for you.

As big as you can afford. What other answer can there be?

There's a mention in one of the books where the rogue trader's accompanied by one to three escorts, but I can't seem to recall which.

Unless there's a reason that you need a large squadron or a full-on flotilla with you, it should be relatively small. With two Repulsives I'd want to keep one patrolling my holdings, but that all depends on your game.

Personally, I plan to jump around the Expanse with a single cruiser and a frigate for an escort, at most. Otherwise, the GM would feel the need to up his dastardliness.

Probably the Gazetteer for Lure of the Expanse; around half of the Rogue Trader antagonists are described as travelling in a fleet.

Two Grandcruisers?!? Sometimes I'm super jealous of the high power level shenanigans I read here. We just got our first full cruiser after over a year of biweekly campaigning.

Per the google docs of of our stalwart cohorts here I present a section of additional rules pertaining to handling fleet sizes. It serves us very well, as we have a current PF of 82 in my group our normal fleet consists of the following as an example.

• Cruiser
• Light Cruiser
• 4 intact raiders
• 4 raiders in the process of being repaired

This means that we essentially are using six out of the potential 8 PF that we can afford. We also have a bunch of transports out doing their thing...but those don't count. When the second set of four raiders is done we will be sending them off the escort and assist our transport fleets. Since they will be engaged in trading activities as well, they wouldn't count.at that time. But since they are currently just sitting in drydock eating our resources...they count against us.

Sun Lee has 3 Cobra Raider escorts for her awesome Dauntless-class Cruiser.

Bastille has 1 Sword-class Frigate escorting his Lunar-class Cruiser.

Chorda, Winterscale & Saul are supposedly stronger than these 2, and should have larger fleets (Saul for instance has 8 transports if I recall correctly, plus escorts).

As for warp transit...I think it makes sense that a fleet would set a rally point close to the system they plan to attack and get everyone together there after a long trip, before making a last, short and secure jump to the destination intended.

Thanks for all the replies guys. Our RP group is a mix of old and new to 40k and for 2 of us this is our first go at RT. I'm one of the new ones and the RT. We meet weekly and the campaign as been going for 6 months now.

Before we did a major ship shuffle, we had been running around in a Secutor LC (starter/flag ship) with a Sword Frigate that we salvaged and an Endeavour that we bought to try out torps. Our GM even let me rip out the Voss pattern torps and replace them with Fortis pattern torps. Which combined with virus torpedoes proved to be quite deadly. We had been tasked by the Navy to go smash up some pirates and had help in the form of a cruiser who's make I forget and 3 Swords in a squadron.

The Navy killed 5 ships. We killed 5 ships. We captured 11 more. Only 1 of those were in a boarding action. However the battle took a long time, 8 hours in real time. With so many different weapons on our ships and different ships it slowed things down a bit. Bless you GMs for being able to handle all that. For us players we struck a deal with the Navy, we traded in all the intact ships for a Repulsive. Then we traded in our LCs and straight up bought a second Repulsive. Bought ships are now in drydock being refitted to our specifications. The Sword we sold/gifted to a PC character that was retired to NPC status as the PC became the head of a Knight Titan House as reward for turning over a STC fragment.

So that leaves our fleet at 2 Repulsives, and 1 Universe that we had bought earlier and is also being refitted. We're cruising around in the Sword for now until things get done. From what I've read in the books and here on the forums, we are most definitely doing alright. We're looking at getting some escort ships to throw in a squadron with cookie cutter builds to make life easier.

As for traveling through the warp together, we've been going under the assumption that the lead ship makes the nav checks and everyone jumps off of that. We have a PC Navigator who is really good at his job. And his NPC replacement for when he can't make it to session is good too with a rating of 60.

Lastly, to limit fleet size (and after our big ship fight I see why) our GM imposed the following on us. The upkeep of the flagship is free. Any other ship costs its SP ten's place -1 in upkeep. And we can only keep our tens place in PF. So for example a Sword is SP 40 so for us it costs 3 points of upkeep. We have PF 90, and thanks to 2 homebrewed colony improvements can support 11 total. Which is eaten up by a Repulsive (4) and Universe (3). We are just beginning to set up trade routes so I'm thinking of talking to my GM about allowing us to get transport to ply the routes that don't count against our upkeep limit.

I like a combination of the above posters methods. Here's my take:

The Rogue traders flag ship is free. Each ship traveling with it costs it's tens digit of SP in PF as upkeep. Thus, Maintaining a Sword class frigate as an escort costs you 4 PF. Note that SP refers to total SP after the ship is fitted out! ( A "Standard" Lunar class Cruiser [bFG] clocks in at about 73 SP. Thus, An Improved RT vessel could go for considerably more!)These profit factor deductions are permanent so long as the vessel remains with the Flotilla. The Rogue trader may take as many vessels as their PF will support but remember that each vessel is a Reduction of PF. A squadron of 3 40 pt. sword frigates would be a PF reduction of 12! Thus your 80 PF RT would now have a PF of 68! Add a "Standard" Lunar and your down to a 61 PF! Obviously these costs will add up quick! Ships Docked in port only cost half (They still need to be maintained.) while ships used in background endeavors or supporting existing trade Routes (Must have some sort of Cargo component) are self sustaining.

As to Navigation I would suggest the following: Navigation of fleets requires a great deal of cooperation between the Fleet's Master navigator (Typically the one on the flagship), The fleets embedded Astropaths and the Navigators on the attendant vessels. Astropathic assets used in this manner are unavailable for any other purpose so Interstellar communication with a fleet at Warp are often impossible. The fleets master Navigator makes all warp Navigation roles but suffers a -10 per ship to all Navigation: Warp rolls due to the stress of coordinating all maneuvers with the other ships in the fleet. For this reason, Very large fleets will typically have one Master Navigator per Squadron and will assemble at a rally point prior to traveling en masse to a target system.

Using these two rules would seem (To me at least) to make the rogue trader want to keep his Personal flotilla down to a manageable size! The risk of losing your escort squadron to the warp or other such Calamities would be something my players would be VERY wary of! (Because they know their GM is evil! ) Then there is also the tendency of big fleets to attract biggER problems to contend with. After all, That Chaos raider encounter I originally would have planned could turn into a full blown Black crusade Sallying out of the Screaming Vortex complete with Chaos Space Marines, Murder class cruisers and of course, a Despoiler class Battleship! Hope you've got your big boy/girl panties on!

I like a combination of the above posters methods. Here's my take:

The Rogue traders flag ship is free. Each ship traveling with it costs it's tens digit of SP in PF as upkeep. Thus, Maintaining a Sword class frigate as an escort costs you 4 PF. Note that SP refers to total SP after the ship is fitted out! ( A "Standard" Lunar class Cruiser [bFG] clocks in at about 73 SP. Thus, An Improved RT vessel could go for considerably more!)These profit factor deductions are permanent so long as the vessel remains with the Flotilla. The Rogue trader may take as many vessels as their PF will support but remember that each vessel is a Reduction of PF. A squadron of 3 40 pt. sword frigates would be a PF reduction of 12! Thus your 80 PF RT would now have a PF of 68! Add a "Standard" Lunar and your down to a 61 PF! Obviously these costs will add up quick! Ships Docked in port only cost half (They still need to be maintained.) while ships used in background endeavors or supporting existing trade Routes (Must have some sort of Cargo component) are self sustaining.

Okay, so I've built a Repulsive that has a component SP value of 66. So throw on top of that the 69 SP from the BFK for the ship itself and that's 135 or 13 PF under that system... Wow, good thing its the flagship. Her sister ship (yes, she has a sister ship) clocks in at a possible (she isn't pimped out/upgraded as hard) 52 SP in parts plus the 69 for the ship gets us 121 or 12 PF. Our Universe is pimped would be SP 73 plus 45 for the ship itself for 118 total or 11 PF. That would be 23 PF for just 2 ships. And all 3 ships have room yet... I'm going to go lay down now.

Good thing we're under a different system though I see the value in your proposed one. It would force you to choice between PF in the forms of favors and influence in the wider Expanse vs PF in the form of very large guns in a very concentrated area.

My answer to the OPs question would be "As big as you want!"

In terms of sources from the background, the one that immediately springs to mind is the Rogue Trader dynasty from the Matt Farrer BL library novel "Legacy", which seemed to have a very large number of ships. I can't remember exactly how many, but it certainly seemed to be over a dozen, and indeed the Segmentum Fleet seemed to be treating them with wary respect. The Rogue Trader himself had a flagship and a palace/pleasure ship as a spare, and it seemed that each of the major figures in the fleet (head of the Mechanicus delegation etc) had their own ship, too.

The recent Horus Heresy FW books are pretty explicit about RT fleets in 30k being very large. Given the gradual formalisation and stagnation of the Imperium, I'd hazard a guess that "modern" 40k RT fleets tend to be typically smaller and rather less likely to be accompanied by Astartes elements. "Legacy" scale fleets are likely rarer than they once were.

In the 40k setting, I've always felt that a typical sector fleet would probably have roughly 1 Imperial Navy starship for each inhabited planet, and a merchant fleet of 9-10 civilian ships per military ship. (There's no canon source for this, it's just a gut "feel"). I would imagine that the Imperial Navy would therefore start to get a bit twitchy/nervous if any Rogue Trader fleets reached a size where they posed a serious threat to a sector or even subsector fleet. This would suggest a tentative 15-25 ship limit for "normal" RT fleets. I personally feel that anything above that size would cause Inquisitors to begin to conduct investigations into potentially Sector-shattering power being held in the hands of one individual.

(Mind you, thinking it through, that argument falls apart a bit in a genuine "frontier" region like the Koronus Expanse where there are so many canonical RT dynasties right on the border of the Imperium that the Navy would probably struggle to defeat them if they got together and decided to invade the Calixis Sector.)

Anyway, beside-the-point musings aside, the whole point of the RPG is that there should be no limit to your ambitions! If you want to be Darth Trader stomping around your Super-Dreadnought pre-heresy battleship executing underlings by the dozen as you raze worlds to cinders using your 300 strong fleet, then hell, go for it! There's absolutely nothing wrong with a larger scale chronicle, and indeed a lot to recommend it.

Several novels cover ships merging their gellar fields and grappling onto each other - i'd rule this could be done with a +0 Tech-Use test, with 3 or more degrees of failure meaning the ships will separate at some point in warp. The lead navigator makes the navigation checks, with a -10 per ship in the fleet (use logic for how many ships can grapple on and merge gellar fields), though each other navigator may 'assist' the lead navigator and cancel out their ship's -10 penalty if they pass a (Navigation Warp) -10 test.

Perhaps someone could homebrew a ship component that aids in gellar field merging and multiple-ship warp travel?

I don't know if we need new components just so our warp ships travel in formation.

A Navigator experiences the warp supremely differently than anyone else, even another Navigator. But whether you're sailing on the "taste of cheese that's been left out for too long" on the wind of "that feeling you get when you only half remember something" you can still sense and see other ships near you, right?

The warp engine provides the method of locomotion inside the Empyrean. The ship should have turn signals or something too.

If it's a component thing and not a skill thing then convoys and patrols and squadrons would be possible only with ships that have these things.

I didn't mean that a component was necessary for it, simply that a component that aided in doing so would be useful. I'd assume that navy groups have highly skilled navigators that are used to flying in formation through the warp, not to mention they tend to fly smaller ships in formation and bigger ships not in formation.

Maybe a 1 power 0 space 2 SP component called Gellar Field Harmonizer:
A gellar field harmonizer co-ordinates multiple gellar fields when merged during warp travel. This component reduces the -10 penalty (as i mentioned in my previous post) per ship attached to the vessel's gellar field to a -5 penalty. Good craftsmanship reduces the penalty to 0 and Best Craftsmanship allows a re-roll of a single test during warp travel due to the perfectly coordinated multiple gellar field redundancy.

I like a combination of the above posters methods. Here's my take:

The Rogue traders flag ship is free. Each ship traveling with it costs it's tens digit of SP in PF as upkeep. Thus, Maintaining a Sword class frigate as an escort costs you 4 PF. Note that SP refers to total SP after the ship is fitted out! ( A "Standard" Lunar class Cruiser [bFG] clocks in at about 73 SP. Thus, An Improved RT vessel could go for considerably more!)These profit factor deductions are permanent so long as the vessel remains with the Flotilla. The Rogue trader may take as many vessels as their PF will support but remember that each vessel is a Reduction of PF. A squadron of 3 40 pt. sword frigates would be a PF reduction of 12! Thus your 80 PF RT would now have a PF of 68! Add a "Standard" Lunar and your down to a 61 PF! Obviously these costs will add up quick! Ships Docked in port only cost half (They still need to be maintained.) while ships used in background endeavors or supporting existing trade Routes (Must have some sort of Cargo component) are self sustaining.

Okay, so I've built a Repulsive that has a component SP value of 66. So throw on top of that the 69 SP from the BFK for the ship itself and that's 135 or 13 PF under that system... Wow, good thing its the flagship. Her sister ship (yes, she has a sister ship) clocks in at a possible (she isn't pimped out/upgraded as hard) 52 SP in parts plus the 69 for the ship gets us 121 or 12 PF. Our Universe is pimped would be SP 73 plus 45 for the ship itself for 118 total or 11 PF. That would be 23 PF for just 2 ships. And all 3 ships have room yet... I'm going to go lay down now.

Good thing we're under a different system though I see the value in your proposed one. It would force you to choice between PF in the forms of favors and influence in the wider Expanse vs PF in the form of very large guns in a very concentrated area.

You understood my point exactly! Most Rogue trader flotilla's in BFG were basically 1 Flagship with a number of smaller escorts and transports. In your example: The other repulsive could be taken off your total simply by placing it on one of your existing trade routes. You are exactly right also that while a Major player like Sebastian Winterscale probably has access to a pretty sizeable fleet it's doubtful that it sails around accompanying him! My system is a reflection of this.

It's not the flagship that should be discounted, but all non-earning ships. If a rogue trader has a flaghip, it's probably a warship, in which case it's probably not earning its keep (that doesn't mean I want to get into a discussion of the profitability of escorts v. no escorts). The cargo carriers with the flagship are what is earning the bread. Basically, anything with cargo holds of some sort or achievement point bonuses are adding to the profitability of the Dynasty.

And btw Rogal, where did you get the Fleet Management System? Is this a home-brew?

Several novels cover ships merging their gellar fields and grappling onto each other - i'd rule this could be done with a +0 Tech-Use test, with 3 or more degrees of failure meaning the ships will separate at some point in warp. The lead navigator makes the navigation checks, with a -10 per ship in the fleet (use logic for how many ships can grapple on and merge gellar fields), though each other navigator may 'assist' the lead navigator and cancel out their ship's -10 penalty if they pass a (Navigation Warp) -10 test.

Perhaps someone could homebrew a ship component that aids in gellar field merging and multiple-ship warp travel?

Totally agree on the first thing.

As to the second,maybe not a component but a upgrade would suit better? Nagivator Primus Spire/Chamber/Whatever as an uprgade to normal navigator whatever?

Arcane technology used in this precious piece or archeotech lets navigators in the fleet to percive each other and ables a group of vessels to travel as a coherent formation. It's quality would modify other navigators Navigation (Warp) tests:

-10 for PQ

0 for SQ

+10 for GQ

BQ would act as a storm breaker and add +1/per ship in the fleet up to 10 to the Navigation (Warp) tests of the main navigator for the whole trip.

Extremely rare I'd say.

Several novels cover ships merging their gellar fields and grappling onto each other - i'd rule this could be done with a +0 Tech-Use test, with 3 or more degrees of failure meaning the ships will separate at some point in warp. The lead navigator makes the navigation checks, with a -10 per ship in the fleet (use logic for how many ships can grapple on and merge gellar fields), though each other navigator may 'assist' the lead navigator and cancel out their ship's -10 penalty if they pass a (Navigation Warp) -10 test.

Perhaps someone could homebrew a ship component that aids in gellar field merging and multiple-ship warp travel?

Totally agree on the first thing.

As to the second,maybe not a component but a upgrade would suit better? Nagivator Primus Spire/Chamber/Whatever as an uprgade to normal navigator whatever?

Arcane technology used in this precious piece or archeotech lets navigators in the fleet to percive each other and ables a group of vessels to travel as a coherent formation. It's quality would modify other navigators Navigation (Warp) tests:

-10 for PQ

0 for SQ

+10 for GQ

BQ would act as a storm breaker and add +1/per ship in the fleet up to 10 to the Navigation (Warp) tests of the main navigator for the whole trip.

Extremely rare I'd say.

Doesn't work for me. It means Navigation Warp tests actually get better the more ships you add, meaning Warp Travel completely changes and people would need to travel in a fleet in order to have safer journeys. That's a pretty huge bonus that's being piled on, and I don't see anything in the lore that would have anything like this.

Also as Archeotech it doesn't make too much sense either, since I believe in the Dark Age of Technology, mankind had mastered faster-than-light travel and didn't use the Warp, preferring instead to rely on its A.I. friends. Navigators only came about with the rise of the Emperor.

Doesn't work for me. It means Navigation Warp tests actually get better the more ships you add, meaning Warp Travel completely changes and people would need to travel in a fleet in order to have safer journeys. That's a pretty huge bonus that's being piled on, and I don't see anything in the lore that would have anything like this.

Also as Archeotech it doesn't make too much sense either, since I believe in the Dark Age of Technology, mankind had mastered faster-than-light travel and didn't use the Warp, preferring instead to rely on its A.I. friends. Navigators only came about with the rise of the Emperor.

But obviously I wasn't there, so I can't say for certain either way.

You understood my point exactly! Most Rogue trader flotilla's in BFG were basically 1 Flagship with a number of smaller escorts and transports. In your example: The other repulsive could be taken off your total simply by placing it on one of your existing trade routes. You are exactly right also that while a Major player like Sebastian Winterscale probably has access to a pretty sizeable fleet it's doubtful that it sails around accompanying him! My system is a reflection of this.

It's been a while, but I think you';re confusing pirate wolfpack fleets with rogue traders as far as BFG goes, at least since FAQ 2010.

And btw Rogal, where did you get the Fleet Management System? Is this a home-brew?

It's home brewed. The name of the creator has been lost to time, but a copy of his work (and others that have been "acquired") can be found in the link below in my signature.

You understood my point exactly! Most Rogue trader flotilla's in BFG were basically 1 Flagship with a number of smaller escorts and transports. In your example: The other repulsive could be taken off your total simply by placing it on one of your existing trade routes. You are exactly right also that while a Major player like Sebastian Winterscale probably has access to a pretty sizeable fleet it's doubtful that it sails around accompanying him! My system is a reflection of this.

It's been a while, but I think you';re confusing pirate wolfpack fleets with rogue traders as far as BFG goes, at least since FAQ 2010.

No, but thanks anyway ! I remember a Mini group that were marketed as a RT and "escorts". The flagship was what in BFK is called the Galleon class. The Escorts were a mismash of frigates and transports. Can't point to it exactly since the specialist games website is gone but I do remember it!

Ah you must be referring to this set of ships. Google image search is your friend.

Yeah, it was kinda weird we didn't get the generic Rogue Trader cruiser. It's not that different stats-wise.