Hey all I'm starting a new campaign with 2 players who play DH and two players who havent played it except for a demo game they are around 13 to 15 as im only 14 but the newbies are WoWtards (No offence to all who play wow its cool ,but these two are a bit anoying) so when it comes to decisions most of the things they said were "Lets kill him" or " when do we loot him" and it got a bit anoying cause they only like combat one of them pays a heap of attention to the story but gives raelly crap answers that are revolved around combat and looting the other dosnt pay attentoin but dosnt always want to kill everyone when he gives answers so i have 3 questions

1) what can I do to stop the players always wanting to loot and kill and how do i stop them from not paying attentoin?

2) They want to make Characters but what classes should i let them be if one loves combat and the other should have a balanced character?

3) Should i let them fight if their answer to someone is "Ill Pop a cap in your ass" or somthing simmilar, Or tell them to say a proper answer?

I would really appriciate any answers regarding these questions and any suggestions you may have

Soldeen70

Just put them in a situation wher they can't "cap the bastard", a penal world or something.

Try and be cinimatic in your descriptions, give them a +10% for cool description in and out of combat, penalties if you have to.

I think every GM has to deal with battle addicted players at some point. The truth of the matter is you can't really force them to change what they like. If they enjoy combat, they're going to enjoy combat, and it's you're job as a GM to make it a fulfilling experience for them while having fun along the way. Having said that, I understand where you're coming from, especially since I recently had a player like this. Essentially if they want to be battle crazed tommy toughnuts, give them lots of battles, but surround them with NPCs that are much, much stronger than they are. Furthermore, make what these NPCs say and do important to your storyline. Since they are obviously (and yes it must be obvious) stronger, this will make the players jealous of their abilities thus paying more attention to them. When these NPCs take actions to move the story along for the NPCs, they'll naturally pay more attention tot he story as well. Also, it's always adds an element of comody when these stronger characters think of the PCs as equals, despite the fact that they're much weaker. This can produce situations from being knocked to the ground from a pat on the back to dragging the PCs into an obvious suicide mission because the NPC thinks they can handle it. In my game, I had a feral worlder who thought he could kill anything, so I made him friends with a Space Wolf Scout who was in another Inquisitor's retinue. Just as I said, the Space Wolf thought of him as an equal (or at least acted like it) and many broken bones later the player asked me if he could make a better character.

Another thing to bear in mind- in Dark Heresy, there is no level-appropriate encounter. While, as a GM, you are responsible for keeping the game fun for your players, there is no rule, nor even any guideline against sending them up against ridiculously numerous and powerful foes. Indeed, if your group is disinclined to 'waste time' scouting the area/research the potential threat and strength of the foe, or worse, attempt to do so but botch it up, feel free to throw them up against something really nasty- they may have been expecting a small, mostly harmless xenophile cult, but they actually run into a small army of heavily armed guards for a dealer in the Cold Trade; the coven of mutant-loving wyrds has been working on creating a daemonhost; the Democratist assembly they were supposed to be raiding is actually the clearing house for a planetary anti-Imperial revolutionary force, and so on.

This works particularly well if you have the NPC foes actually fighting smart- suppressing fire, intelligent use of cover, ganging up, aiming and called shots, etc. Essentially, play the bonuses the same way many (if not most or all) players do.

On first glance (and assuming they survive), this does make the looting problem worse, but the answer to that is fairly simple- enforce encumbrance limits, and have the bad guys use clunky, old heavy versions of standard gear. You can also have the 'good guys' take away pretty much anything really expensive as evidence, and back it up with heavy weapons, at close or even point blank range.

Another option is to make it really hard for them to sell what gear they manage to loot- who's going to buy a platoon's worth of knock-off autoguns, all stamped/etched with heretical symbols?

soldeen70 said:

Taking these in reverse order...

3) Let them control there characters. If they want to threaten and bluster, let them. If they want to start a fight, let them. Your job is to make then face the consequences. Have "someone" and his four or five heavily armed goons respond appropriately... which could mean a vicious firefight or just laughing in their face.

2) Let them make their own characters. If one loves combat, Dark Heresy has a lot of combat oriented classes. If one wants to make a character with skills, DH has a few of those too. What's important is that they have character they like and enjoy playing.

1) Let's face it, your players are young, on a power trip and have been taught bad habits by online games. The best way to teach them not to loot and kill is to show them the consequences of doing so. I played in a D&D game once with a young lady who grabbed every magic item she could lay her hands on. Then we switched to another game and the first magic sword she grabbed happened to be horribly cursed. It ended badly for that character, but they play was a little less likely to grab for magic items. In Dark Heresy, looting goods from heretics is a good way to gain Corruption and/or Insanity. Getting into firefights is a good way to get killed, especially if you are outnumbered and outgunned. However, don't go overboard or you might loose you players.

IMO, the best way to get what you want out of the game is to make your players consider the consequences of their actions and to leave open obvious alternatives to combat... why fight the orgyn guards when you can sneak past them and don't take anything marked with the sigil of Slaneesh.

soldeen70 said:

1. What's the best way to stop them from wanting to kill and loot? Easy... offer them a better reward for not killing and looting. You know, like have their Inquisitor tell them that they'll get "X" number of Thrones or "X" number of hours in the training yard (resulting in +X amount of experience) or the like. Tell them to think of it like the non-faction specific quest in the Eastern Wastelands where they have to deliver the symbol of the Steel Hands to the son of the great Paladin hero who fell in with the wrong crowd. A mission where stealth and diplomacy pay off more than brute force.

As for how to stop them from not paying attention... as has been said before: Make it so that they run into something truly "WTF"ish that hey would have expected had they paid attention. Ever play Neverwinter Nights 2? In that game you can just rush things along... but you're in for many surprises if you do seeing as how you lack the proper information and the like. For example, because you didn't read through the scholar's long and boring rant, you're not aware that the Tower of Learning is guarded by a series of trivia traps or because you ignored the little annoying gnome you don't know how to reactivate the Golem who turns out to be one of the most powerful allies you could get.

2. Let them choose what they want. Just hint that Guardsman, Assassin, and Arbitrator would be more their style.

3. If they say something like that, as said before, treat it like they said it in the real world. For example, think of it what would happen if a particularly scrawny Chav (the answer to that being "That's impossible. If they were any scrawnier they'd be dessicated corpses") tried to walk around with swagger in Camden, NJ (the murder capital of the world). Not something that will end well... at least not for the Chav (substitute Chav for ****** if you're from the US).

::EDIT::
Oh yes, and the best way to stop them: Allow the 2 experienced players to frag the newbies if they mess up too badly. It may mean your RP group being broken, but there's always a chance that they'll learn something from the whole experience (i.e. Don't be an arse or your squad mate might just shoot you in the back of the head).

1) what can I do to stop the players always wanting to loot and kill and how do i stop them from not paying attentoin?
By all means, let your players run amok They want to rifle through a Slaaneshi cult Magis pockets, go ahead and let them. When they wake up in the morning in an arbites holding cell you can just grin at them from across the table. They got themselves into said mess, they have to get themselves out of said mess. However, be sure that you don't alienate your players by doing this, worst thing is your players saying:
"Can I touch that? Will it screw up the plot?"

2) They want to make Characters but what classes should i let them be if one loves combat and the other should have a balanced character?
There's classes for everyone in DH, they want to be a "tank" give them a guardsman, they want to do DPS, give them an assassin. Mage? Psyker.
Actually, give them a psyker, even NPC them, inform the players themselves that the mage has brilliant spells that can stop bullets and boil people blood. When it's time for the psyker to unleash an awesome spell, have gravity reverse, the walls weep blood and everyones gun jam ^^ That'll show the players that DH isn't as cleancut as WoW mages are, there's miscasts worse than you just not casting a spell. There's miscasts that're capable of driving hundreds insane and reversing gravity

3) Should i let them fight if their answer to someone is "Ill Pop a cap in your ass" or somthing simmilar, Or tell them to say a proper answer?
As above, they get into the mess, they get themselves out of the mess. If the players want info from a source and let slip they're inquisitorial agents it'll either give them a bonus from him in the future from fear, or maybe he see's something in helping the Inquisition. Or he'll tell the subjects of the players investigation.
Likewise, a player calls some muscle a grox-fondler who practised Viagra with a donkey. The player is fully deserving of the fist in his face. If you tell the players what to say, they'll feel like they have less freedom, as if they were playing WoW again. You want the players to sit down and realise:
"This isn't WoW! I'm not gonna respawn at a graveyard and have everyone love me! I'll die a horrible horrible death and people won't talk to me through fear and xenophobia!"
Basically, you need to give them options that MMORPG's don't. If the players get creative in any manner, especially in combat, they'll feel really clever for hurling a flamer at a bunch of mutants and blowing it up. They'll regale the other PC's with the tale again and again, if they start to realise what they have isn't all that bad, they won't develop such a bad Obsessive Looting disorder ^^

soldeen70 said:

While you have a plethora of advice on your fist two questions, it seems that your third question really hasn't been answered yet, so here's my take on it: don't worry about it.

If such as "I bust a cap in his ass" is the players response informing you what action (s)he wishes to preform or how they chose to interact with their environment, I don't see much wrong with it. As long as the lot of you are having fun, let it go. They want to be colorful and feel like the tough guys in the movies and what-not. Nothing wrong with that.

Now, if "I'll bust a cap in yo ass, mofukka!" is how they speak in character to NPC's while interacting with the world and this doesn't mesh with your view of the 40k universe, then assume the character is speaking in the local tongue of his/her planet or hive and respond accordingly -and by accordingly, I mean respond like a Scottish would in 1890 if someone said that. It would probably be something along the lines of "...uh... huh?" Or, even better, have them comically misunderstood based on tonality and word choice until they speak properly and can be assumed to be communicating in low gothic at that time.

Edit: of course, such tearms and slang isn't out of character for 40k as 40k isn't all that serious at times. Take the Orks for instace...

Really, there are two options, either you run a combat and loot game, which can be fun. Or you run a proper game. if you deceide to do it properly then simply have people react in a normal manner, for 40k. Life has essentially no value in the Imperium, if they threaten, say, and Adept or Arbitrator or some authority figure have them respond correctly: ie "Guards!" or "Threatening an Arbitrator is capitol offence!". Once the'r bodies are incenerated, roll up some new ones and start again. If they act like deranged and deleuded criminals with a death wish, then treat them as such.

an answer for 3)

lets have them say that to a gang leader and him/her get offended and go away, later on leaders entire gang of 50 odd men ambush the player who said it and royal beat teh living shite out off him and then loot him. lol

just a thought

You can start by doing what I usually do, tell them: this is not WoW, your charactors DO NOT respawn when they die, if they die they stay dead and there are alot of things out there which a bigger, stronger, faster and better than you, and they will try to hurt you...that usually works, if not, have em pay for it, if they wanna fight their way out of everything they will eventually die and if they cant take it then the game aint for them, I'm sorry but thats the way I see it, this game is not meant to be "kick in the door, kill the monters, loot their treasure and save the damsel".

I use to have players act like that, then i would every so often let them come across something or someone who is sorta peacful, and when the battle hungry PC attacked them, all hell would break loose and they would walk away from combat missing an important limb. they stopped attacked everything on sight after that! but i still give them some fun! including a daemon taunting them to the point that he killed several valuable NPC's and gained the partys hatred! that was some fun!

On the subject of the players not paying attention. If you've had to remind them three times to pay attention when it was obvious that what was going on was/will be important, you may want to invoke the policy that if they weren't paying attention than nether were their characters. If they ask "wait, what was that" or "what's going on" let them know that their character wasn't paying attention so they don't know. This can be a bit extreme, but it can also be effective. I've used this tactic to great affect in a game where none of the players cared what other people's characters were doing in combat, leading to 75% of the players always asking "Ok, what's going on, what is everyone doing" every time their initiative pass came around. After a few rounds of "You don't know" they learned to keep track of more than just their HP total.

I really don't believe in punishing them. If they come to expect to be cool clean up guys that kick around the bad guys, running into punishment will NOT teach them that your way of playing is cooler, it will just teach them that your way of playing is no fun!

talk to them...

Talk about the game, I know they are young, but they are young adults.

Have you asked them, if they would be interested a game, that is not centered around violence? If they are not, ask yourself if you want to spend your time on such a game?

You could say... "I know you like this, and I like that... can we do a compromise, so all can enjoy the game?"

If not, look for other players...

...Idless

I have to agree with Idless here. A roleplaying game should be enjoyable by all involved in it, punishment is not fun. If the players want to have characters that are black and white heroes/killers that kill and loot all they see, let them be that. Make them all guardsmen/assassins/gunslingers/etc placed in an imperial warzone and send them out on commando raids to do "very improtant stuff", so they can feel like heroes. Give them loads of opponents that are just goons with 1 wound so they can be really cool and powerful when they kill dozens of them. And remember to do filmatic stuff like adding a super villain who fights the characters and gets away just before being killed, at least two times. Make a great endbattle encounter where they get to kill her (or him). After they have killed the badgirl/guy and saved the general day on this planet, have their first inquisitor meet them and offer them a job doing similar things on a more important planet.

If you want to show these people other parts of the roleplaying that you find fun, try to sneak it in a little at a time. Start with sending them out on a very simple killing spree that lasts for three evenings of play, and just plant a few iconic characters along the way, like a cursing sergeant "Come on you f-ing apes, do you want to live forever?", a clever techie that fixes up their equipment and "can get them some really special stuff, if you could just fix this one little thing for me?" and so on. If you do these characters in a living inspiring way, while still letting the players be the unquestionable heroes of the story, your players will probably become interested in actually roleplaying back at them, between the sessions of slaughter and looting. In the beginning of playing a new game your players will be a bit unsecure about what they are supposed to do, and they will default to loud and obnoxious behaviour. When they have played a little and get more comfortable with the world and the system they will have relaxed enough to be able to take in new things, listen to the story you are telling, and maybe even try a little bit of diplomacy now and then. Your gaming evenings will probably feel more like a game of wh40k or dungeons and dragons than a game of dark heresy, but as long as you are all enjoying yourself that's really not a problem. Describe the 40k world that you love and see by talking about things they are interested of, like weapons, violence and cool surroundings: "The supersonic whirring of your chainsword pitches down as it encounters the heretics bodyarmour with an impact that jarrs your arm, it takes a second that feels like a year before it has sawed through the ceramic plates and reaches her soft intestines inside. As the spray of blood, guts and **** hits you in the face, you can taste her fear and desperation through your plasteel visor. Her crazed screaming turns into a gurgling as she drops her smoking boltgun to the rainslick metal floor with a whisper to her unholy gods on her dying lips. "Khorne... I give my blood... for you..." The stench of sweat, explosives, laserburns and rust lies heavily in the air." (minor hint: describe using all the senses: look, smell, sound, taste, touch and even "sixth sense hunches", it makes the world a lot more living and is something that movies and computergames cannot do)

I was a loothungry combatmonster of a roleplayer 20 years ago, and it goes away with time and inspiration. Try to make them follow your carrot, rather than being afraid of your stick. And if you find out that you and your player group really are not compatible, find other people to play with. We are supposed to do this for fun after all.

Good luck with your GMing, and let us know how it turns out.

Let me begin with saying Dark Heresy is a fantasy game, but a game based in reality. There are consequences for every action and the consequences of resorting to violence can be harsh.

In WoW, the only consequence a person suffers if they are killed is they have to walk from the graveyard back to their corpse. If you bite off more than you can chew or run into some bad luck or just plane do something stupid, then you simply take 5 to 60 seconds out of your playing time, resurrect, and resort to business as usual.

In Dark Heresy, if someone points a gun at your face and pulls the trigger, you’re probably gonna die.

The best solution to dealing with players who choose to deal with every situation with violence is for the individuals who that violence is visited upon to retaliate. Sometimes you must allow your players to die… but don’t deliberately kill them.

Allow them to be any class they wish. I personally do not like to limit my players choice of character.

You’re playing an RPG. If they tell someone ‘I’ll Pop a cap in your ass’ than that someone will react appropriately. If it’s a rank and file Imperial citizen, he’ll probably run away fearful of his safety. If it’s a hive ganger, he’s probably smart enough to assess the chances of winning in a shootout and, if those chances are good, he’ll do just that. If his chances aren’t good, he will probably leave the situation but return with lots of backup. If he’s some administorium acolyte, he’ll probably call the local authorities who will explain to the PC’s that threats are not tolerated.

…and, do not forget, being part of the Inquisition does not give the PC’s a license to do whatever they please. If the PC’s prove to be too much of a liability, the Inquisition itself will come down on them with righteous fury.