I have a bit of a conundrum that involves a bit of creative thinking. I'm pondering the idea of a Besalisk using the home brewed stats offered in the Unofficial Species Menagerie v.3.0. Essentially, two Advantages means a Brawl check connects on another adjacent foe. I am, however, quite against the way the author has handled the extra limbs. From what I could gather, the only Saga-edition playable multi-limbed species was the Codru-ji. Their limbs are similar to the Besalisks in that they don't gain extra attacks, but can still manipulate items with them. The example given is being able to dual wield two two-handed weapons.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but EotE has no rules for wielding a weapon in two hands. No boost dice or extra damage, correct? That said, how do you all suggest this be worked in? Also, how would you rewrite the Besalisk's multiple limbs species trait? Do these two things need to both be implemented for effectiveness?

Whatever you go with you don't want it to be overwhelming. The one in the species menagerie I thought was pretty good.

EotE does have rules regarding two-handed weapons -- using them requires the use of both hands.

However, I don't recall seeing anything regarding use of two hands on a one-handed weapon (like a Vibro-Sword). And there haven't been any races I know of that have more than two arms, although droids can certainly qualify there.

My inclination would be to allow them to use a pair of two-handed weapons, and to use them per the two-weapon combat (TWC) rules on page 210 of the core rule book (CRB). He could presumably do the same for brawl as if he was engaged in TWC (i.e., treat brawl as if it was a two-handed weapon).

EotE does have rules regarding two-handed weapons -- using them requires the use of both hands.

However, I don't recall seeing anything regarding use of two hands on a one-handed weapon (like a Vibro-Sword). And there haven't been any races I know of that have more than two arms, although droids can certainly qualify there.

My inclination would be to allow them to use a pair of two-handed weapons, and to use them per the two-weapon combat (TWC) rules on page 210 of the core rule book (CRB). He could presumably do the same for brawl as if he was engaged in TWC (i.e., treat brawl as if it was a two-handed weapon).

Yeah, I was thinking something along those lines. Also, being able to dual wield two ranged (heavy) weapons. Per previous editions, two weapons would be the limit. Besalisks can't segment their minds to focus on more than two weapons.

I'd be very careful with this idea and make sure your Players understand that this is a monster specific ability or you could open the possibility of a Droid PC wanting to implement this themselves. If a Boss does it it's a cool uber- adversary, if a PC does it it's Munchkin.

I'd be very careful with this idea and make sure your Players understand that this is a monster specific ability or you could open the possibility of a Droid PC wanting to implement this themselves. If a Boss does it it's a cool uber- adversary, if a PC does it it's Munchkin.

Swing a pair of Vibro-Swords. You'll do one point less damage each than if you had used a Vibro-Axe, but with Two Weapon Combat you have the possibility of hitting twice.

You can do much the same with blasters.

The real danger here is not that they could use a pair of two-handed weapons, because frankly a pair of two-handed weapons is not much more of a threat than a pair of otherwise similar one-handed weapons.

The real danger is that they could use twice the number of one-handed weapons. Imagine someone swinging four Vibro-Swords, or four Lightsabers, or using four Han Solo-style heavily modified Blastech DL-44 Heavy Blaster Pistols with Blaster Actuation Modules and all the possible additional damage and pierce mods.

[ Edit for clarity ]

The real danger is that they could use twice the number of one-handed weapons. Imagine someone swinging four Vibro-Swords, or four Lightsabers, or using four Han Solo-style heavily modified Blastech DL-44 Heavy Blaster Pistols with Blaster Actuation Modules and all the possible additional damage and pierce mods.

I'm not sure that's much of a danger either. Because dual-wielding sets the precedent for increasing the difficulty of the attack, and requiring 2 Advantage to get the second hit, you could arguably increase the difficulty for each additional weapon. So dual adds +1, triple adds +2, quadruple adds +3* to the base difficulty. Plus, 2 Advantages are required for each additional hit, so you'd need 4 to hit three times in total, and 6 for all four.

It might be attemptable for the Agility 6, Range(Light) 5 Besalisk, but the odds of doing much more than someone shooting single handedly are minimal.

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* This is the minimum, assuming all attacks use the same skill and weapon type.

I'd be very careful with this idea and make sure your Players understand that this is a monster specific ability or you could open the possibility of a Droid PC wanting to implement this themselves. If a Boss does it it's a cool uber- adversary, if a PC does it it's Munchkin.

Swing a pair of Vibro-Swords. You'll do one point less damage each than if you had used a Vibro-Axe, but with Two Weapon Combat you have the possibility of hitting twice.

You can do much the same with blasters.

The real danger here is not that they could use a pair of two-handed weapons, because frankly a pair of two-handed weapons is not much more of a threat than a pair of otherwise similar one-handed weapons.

The real danger is that they could use twice the number of one-handed weapons. Imagine someone swinging four Vibro-Swords, or four Lightsabers, or using four Han Solo-style heavily modified Blastech DL-44 Heavy Blaster Pistols with Blaster Actuation Modules and all the possible additional damage and pierce mods.

[ Edit for clarity ]

I'd be very careful with this idea and make sure your Players understand that this is a monster specific ability or you could open the possibility of a Droid PC wanting to implement this themselves. If a Boss does it it's a cool uber- adversary, if a PC does it it's Munchkin.

Swing a pair of Vibro-Swords. You'll do one point less damage each than if you had used a Vibro-Axe, but with Two Weapon Combat you have the possibility of hitting twice.

You can do much the same with blasters.

The real danger here is not that they could use a pair of two-handed weapons, because frankly a pair of two-handed weapons is not much more of a threat than a pair of otherwise similar one-handed weapons.

The real danger is that they could use twice the number of one-handed weapons. Imagine someone swinging four Vibro-Swords, or four Lightsabers, or using four Han Solo-style heavily modified Blastech DL-44 Heavy Blaster Pistols with Blaster Actuation Modules and all the possible additional damage and pierce mods.

[ Edit for clarity ]

To clarify, a Besalisk has four arms, but never can wield more than 2 weapons. Their brains aren't advanced enough .

I'd tend to agree in normal circumstances but when the Munchkin takes hold... I could see a min-maxed Droid with the appropriate weapon Mods built to make this work reasonably well with Auto-Fire (darn I used reasonable and Munckin in the same sentence, I feel dirty). Not as good as a single weapon with Auto-Fire maybe but still.

A Player could argue that their PC's brain is advanced enough, best to not let that seed germinate. ..

Why do I rag on the Munchkin? because It's too easy for a game with Munchkin'd PC to go off the rails.

There's a multi-limbed NPC in Jewel of Yavin, but it's only a gunner in a cloud car, so has limited use. The writeup says it gets one extra free maneuver per turn, but still can only take a maximum of two.

There's a multi-limbed NPC in Jewel of Yavin, but it's only a gunner in a cloud car, so has limited use. The writeup says it gets one extra free maneuver per turn, but still can only take a maximum of two.

"Additional Limbs: (Xexto have six limbs, two legs and four arms; as a result, gain an additional free maneuver per turn, though still may not perform more than two maneuvers per turn."

Yeah, that's weird. Not sure how an extra maneuver makes sense for a Xexto. Granted, compared to a Besalisk, a Xexto's brain is far more advanced to handle the extra limbs.

In my opinion, using a one handed weapon in two hands could add 1 to the difficulty of the attack.(After all,a one handed weapon was designed for ease of use in one hand.) Since melee combat (engaged range) already has a base of 1 difficulty,by increasing it by 1,gives a base of 2 difficulty dice for the attack.

For multiple limbs,just increase the advantages required from 2 to 3 to balance how often the extra limbs connect.

(Only my opinion)

Since melee combat (engaged range) already has a base of 1 difficulty,by increasing it by 1,gives a base of 2 difficulty dice for the attack.

Melee combat is base 2 difficulty.

[...] Since melee combat (engaged range) already has a base of 1 difficulty [...]

I don't recall the page number, but Melee and Brawl attacks are always average base difficulty. Ranged attacks vary depending on the range band. The chart for combat difficulty is intended for ranged attacks.

Edit: Jamwes beat me too it. Apologies for repeated information.

Since melee combat (engaged range) already has a base of 1 difficulty,by increasing it by 1,gives a base of 2 difficulty dice for the attack.

Melee combat is base 2 difficulty.

p.204 EoE CRB.

In my opinion, using a one handed weapon in two hands could add 1 to the difficulty of the attack.(After all,a one handed weapon was designed for ease of use in one hand.) Since melee combat (engaged range) already has a base of 1 difficulty,by increasing it by 1,gives a base of 2 difficulty dice for the attack.

Adding difficulty for using a one handed weapon in two hands doesn't account for any benefits. If you're going to add that crunch, you might as well go all the way.

Using a weapon in two hands adds stability and strength, both in offence and defence. Even a knife in two hands is way more nasty, especially if the fighter isn't strong to begin with. The trade-off is more limited range of motion and tactical flexibility. If you simply make it more difficult, then even if you hit, your damage is being reduced by the extra die (by 1 on average), so you'd have to add +1 damage just to bring it back up to par, and +2 to see any advantage. There's also the defensive quality, which would add 1 to melee defence. Crunchiness forces me to say that this defence should only count against opponents you're facing, and you'd really only want to use this against single opponents or if guarding a narrow doorway, but then there's no facing in this game.

That's all too much crunch for me, it's already handled way more simply by using the Guarded Stance maneuver as a proxy for using a 1H weapon in 2 hands. Gives a setback for usage. It doesn't account for the extra damage, but it takes care of pretty much everything else, including having to spend a maneuver to reflect the more limited range of motion.

Hmmm, I suppose there could be a Two Handed Stance maneuver: +1 difficulty, +1 melee defense, +2 damage...

Or +1 difficulty, +1 melee defense, +1 damage, +1 free advantage...

Or...?

In my opinion, using a one handed weapon in two hands could add 1 to the difficulty of the attack.(After all,a one handed weapon was designed for ease of use in one hand.) Since melee combat (engaged range) already has a base of 1 difficulty,by increasing it by 1,gives a base of 2 difficulty dice for the attack.

Adding difficulty for using a one handed weapon in two hands doesn't account for any benefits. If you're going to add that crunch, you might as well go all the way.

Using a weapon in two hands adds stability and strength, both in offence and defence. Even a knife in two hands is way more nasty, especially if the fighter isn't strong to begin with. The trade-off is more limited range of motion and tactical flexibility. If you simply make it more difficult, then even if you hit, your damage is being reduced by the extra die (by 1 on average), so you'd have to add +1 damage just to bring it back up to par, and +2 to see any advantage. There's also the defensive quality, which would add 1 to melee defence. Crunchiness forces me to say that this defence should only count against opponents you're facing, and you'd really only want to use this against single opponents or if guarding a narrow doorway, but then there's no facing in this game.

That's all too much crunch for me, it's already handled way more simply by using the Guarded Stance maneuver as a proxy for using a 1H weapon in 2 hands. Gives a setback for usage. It doesn't account for the extra damage, but it takes care of pretty much everything else, including having to spend a maneuver to reflect the more limited range of motion.

Hmmm, I suppose there could be a Two Handed Stance maneuver: +1 difficulty, +1 melee defense, +2 damage...

Or +1 difficulty, +1 melee defense, +1 damage, +1 free advantage...

Or...?

Honestly, I don't think anything special is needed. Just say that multi-armed races can wield a number of light weapons equal to their arms, and two-handed weapons equal to their arms/2.

First off: you're going to be adding 1 difficulty die for each additional weapon you attack with. That puts your saber-kiddies at 3D just for 2 weapons. 4D for 3. 5D for 4. We're in the realm of "impossible" checks now. Throw in some situational setback and you've got a fairly impressive target, just to hit with one . That player now needs to spend 2 Advantage (or 1 Triumph) per additional weapon to make them hit as well. That's 2 Adv for dual-wielding, 4 (2 Umph) for tri-wielding, 6 (3 Umph) for quad-wielding.

So let the player pick the 4-armed race and wield all the weapons that entails. Statistically they're going to hit just like everyone else even if they're wielding 3+ weapons. There are so many cool things to spend Adv and Umph on that I suspect it will balance out.

Saber Swarm is a better way to hit hard for a hexa-limbed character, if your experienced enough to have gotten a ways down Ataru and deep into Seer/Sage/Hermit for that FR3 your craving. Its a standard Average attack with a single weapon, after performing a single maneuver (free with that species), with the possibility of hitting 4 times.... its nasty

Honestly, I don't think anything special is needed. Just say that multi-armed races can wield a number of light weapons equal to their arms, and two-handed weapons equal to their arms/2.

First off: you're going to be adding 1 difficulty die for each additional weapon you attack with. That puts your saber-kiddies at 3D just for 2 weapons. 4D for 3. 5D for 4. We're in the realm of "impossible" checks now. Throw in some situational setback and you've got a fairly impressive target, just to hit with one . That player now needs to spend 2 Advantage (or 1 Triumph) per additional weapon to make them hit as well. That's 2 Adv for dual-wielding, 4 (2 Umph) for tri-wielding, 6 (3 Umph) for quad-wielding.

So let the player pick the 4-armed race and wield all the weapons that entails. Statistically they're going to hit just like everyone else even if they're wielding 3+ weapons. There are so many cool things to spend Adv and Umph on that I suspect it will balance out.

Engaging in a bit of thread necromancy, friend?

The OP was talking about homebrewing a Besalisk, which is water under the bridge now that Special Modifications is out. All official four-armed species so far (Xexto, Besalisk, Quermian) have consistently allowed an extra maneuver at 0 strain cost, but no extra attacks.

IIRC, there has been talk about a house-rule that turns two-weapon fighting into four-weapon fighting by allowing a second (and third) activation ever since the Xexto were released, but it is still only that - a house rule. There is even a passage in special modifications that Besalisks wield a third and fourth weapon mainly for intimidation purposes, but cannot really manage four weapons at the same time effectively.

Since the thread was already necro'd... what does everyone think about quad wielding with 2 arms?

2 blaster pistols with wrist mounts, freeing up your hands for another 2 blaster pistols. Paired weapon attachment on all.

Technically this should work or that you can at least, hold all them blasters at once.

Would the extra difficulty per additional weapon attack house rule apply here too?

For that matter if we are letting a four armed character attack with 4 weapons then they should in theory be able to shoot with 8 blasters, 4 being wrist mounted. It would be stupidly impossible to succeed or ever generate enough advantage (definitely in the range of an action requiring a destiny flip just to attempt).

You just convinced me to never allow that multiattack houserule, ever.

Honestly I think it's unnecessary, Autofire is always going to be a better option. I think the true benefits of being 4 armed is being able to hold 2 things and still have hands free for other stuff, climbing for example. Or being able to hold a rifle and still have a Vibro sword to deal with anyone dumb enough to get close.

Honestly, I don't think anything special is needed. Just say that multi-armed races can wield a number of light weapons equal to their arms, and two-handed weapons equal to their arms/2.

First off: you're going to be adding 1 difficulty die for each additional weapon you attack with. That puts your saber-kiddies at 3D just for 2 weapons. 4D for 3. 5D for 4. We're in the realm of "impossible" checks now. Throw in some situational setback and you've got a fairly impressive target, just to hit with one . That player now needs to spend 2 Advantage (or 1 Triumph) per additional weapon to make them hit as well. That's 2 Adv for dual-wielding, 4 (2 Umph) for tri-wielding, 6 (3 Umph) for quad-wielding.

So let the player pick the 4-armed race and wield all the weapons that entails. Statistically they're going to hit just like everyone else even if they're wielding 3+ weapons. There are so many cool things to spend Adv and Umph on that I suspect it will balance out.

Engaging in a bit of thread necromancy, friend?

The OP was talking about homebrewing a Besalisk, which is water under the bridge now that Special Modifications is out. All official four-armed species so far (Xexto, Besalisk, Quermian) have consistently allowed an extra maneuver at 0 strain cost, but no extra attacks.

IIRC, there has been talk about a house-rule that turns two-weapon fighting into four-weapon fighting by allowing a second (and third) activation ever since the Xexto were released, but it is still only that - a house rule. There is even a passage in special modifications that Besalisks wield a third and fourth weapon mainly for intimidation purposes, but cannot really manage four weapons at the same time effectively.

Apparently so, I misread the thread as being june 2016, not just 2014. It was the result of googling for such an answer. Ah well.

I haven't gotten my hands on Special Modifications, just got into the game a couple months back so just the core books for now.

I mean I suppose that works, seems balanced but a little dull.

I now have a Besalisk in a game where I am aiming to go down this path. The GM and I have discussed this subject, and we have at least something of an idea of how we think it’s going to proceed.

TBH, jury-rigged plus auto-fire is always going to be way worse than anything you could do with multi-limbed characters using lots of weapons. That’s part of why I think it’s okay to do, so long as both the player and the GM understand and agree on the difficulties and consequences.

For me, I think it’s much cooler to have a Besalisk waving four OK-98 blaster carbines or four HH-50 Blaster Pistols, with four or eight barrels of mini-death pointing down range at the target(s).