I may be GMing a new game soon, and I had an idea I wanted to get some feedback on.

Rather than giving the group a ship of their choice and 500 credits apiece, my thought is to give the group 120,000 credits to spend on a ship, any upgrades they want, and starting gear.

The caveat to this is that I will give the whole party additional obligation in the form of debt.

Of course, I will leave it up to the players to accept or decline this offer.

Thoughts?

Don't do it.

120,000 credits is a lot of money in this system. The low starting funds at character creation is by design; you'd be completely breaking the balance curve by allowing something like this.

Oy. Imagine "Level One" characters that have the absolute best armor in the game (10k credits, and better than anything Boba or Jango Fett ever had), the absolute best weapons in the game (10k credits), more and better cyber gear than General Grievous, Mandalorian Jet Packs, grenade launchers filled with Thermal Detonators, and otherwise so heavily armed and armored that nothing Jabba the Hutt or anyone else could throw at them would be an actual risk. Darth Vader *might* be able to take them down, or maybe not.

Sure, they wouldn't have the best ship in the game, but if you blew that out of the sky with an errant blast from a Tie Fighter, then all those characters would be dead and they'd have to create new ones anyway.

[ Edit for clarity ]

Moreover, even if they can only spend that money on the ship and not on personal gear, that still allows them to buy a decent-enough used ship and then over-equip it with the biggest and baddest hyperdrive and ion drive engines, the biggest and baddest weapons upgrades, and everything else.

IMO, it's fine if they start off with a larger ship that would normally be more expensive, but it should be bare-bones equipped. Make them work for the money to get the parts to do the upgrades themselves, much less being able to scrounge the money together to pay for someone else to do the upgrades.

If the players aren't forced to work for it, they won't value it. And neither they nor you are likely to have a whole lot of fun in the process.

[ Edit for clarity ]

IMO, it's fine if they start off with a larger ship that would normally be more expensive, but it should be bare-bones equipped. Make them work for the money to get the parts to do the upgrades themselves, much less being able to scrounge the money together to pay for someone else to do the upgrades.

Make it barebones and give a few "quirks." Oh, aye you got that YT-2400 or Citadel for a steal, but the transponder that is installed is 'hot' and will have you flagged by any passing Imperials. Or the hyperdrive has a random chance of failing. Or the **** thing can only turn left. There is lots you can do with this sort of thing and it cetainly makes the game far more intresting. If you go the 'high end but buggy' route, I'd recommend checking out LibrariaNPC's frieghter thread for his take on used ships and to add a few more possible ships to use.

Yeah, with 120,000 credits you could buy a Firespray, pimp dat sucker out, and still have credits left over to buy some sweet gear.

I second swiftdraw. I've started games with a Citadel and a XS-stock freighter (both more powerful than any starting ship in the books) but we added some quirks to balance things out. Flat-out giving 120k, however, would be pretty unbalancing.

I might let them pick 120,000 worth of ship(s). So if 4 of them wanted to be in 4 modified Z-95s or something like that as a merc squadron, that would be ok. I definitely would not give 120k credits in just money though.

I wouldn't do it, especially if I was a beginner GM.

But I could consider giving them broader choice like 5 ships, each with a different upgrade. For example - a YT1300 with better shields or Firespray with better hyperdrive etc... This way they're starting with something more than a generic ship and it's not overpowered.

To clarify - the GM chooses the upgrades (might be random!).

Nowhere does Kirdan Kenobi state he is a beginner gm, only that he is starting a new game.

There are other ways this setup could work. The new characters could inherit an amazing ship from a dead uncle, or whatever, they then have to deal with the reputation of this ship, which their neophyte abilities might not be able to handle.

If it was a ship of a famous pirate, they could be attacked on site, etc.

Also, if the ship is larger, there could be a captain npc that is handing the ship off to the players, Dread pirate Roberts style.

If the story needs the ship worth 120,000+ credits, go for it.

I'm particularly interested to see if Age of Rebellion gives any Silhouette 5+ warships meant for starting PC use. Considering that one if the careers is focused on Capital Ship warfare, I hope it's an option.

Thanks for the responses.

Part of the reason of my thinking is that if the PCs go for a cheaper ship, like the Firespray (particularly because the auto-blaster it has, mechanically, functions best as an anti-personnel weapon), it only seems fair that they should get some upgrades.

I see the point about loose cash going into personal gear right off the bat, and not into ship upgrades as intended.

I think I'm simply going to play by ear and go something like Wayfarer = No upgrades, YT-1300=2 Upgrades, Firespray=4 Upgrades (I will only give them the base attachments, they will have to mod them later, and I will reserve right to veto weapons).

Part of the reason of my thinking is that if the PCs go for a cheaper ship, like the Firespray (particularly because the auto-blaster it has, mechanically, functions best as an anti-personnel weapon), it only seems fair that they should get some upgrades.

I see the point about loose cash going into personal gear right off the bat, and not into ship upgrades as intended.

I think I'm simply going to play by ear and go something like Wayfarer = No upgrades, YT-1300=2 Upgrades, Firespray=4 Upgrades (I will only give them the base attachments, they will have to mod them later, and I will reserve right to veto weapons).

If they're a smaller group and they don't need the bigger ship, then I personally don't see any reason why they would "need" upgrades. If they have a bigger group and a bigger ship, then they're going to have a bigger reputation/obligation to go along with that, and they're going to have to deal with the consequences. If they have a smaller group/smaller ship, then it might be easier for them to slip through a lot of places relatively unnoticed, which could make it easier for them to be successful in certain types of adventures.

The higher "value" of a larger/better equipped ship should come with an equally higher "cost" in terms of the kind of attention it will attract, etc....

So, regardless of the type of ship they choose, I would be inclined to give them a "base" model without upgrades, maybe kinda "quirky" in some regards, and whatever other hooks you find convenient in terms of things to hang adventures on.

I'd echo what the others have said, I don't think there needs to be a sense of what's "fair", in terms of outfitting their ship with upgrades.

I'd think it would be more motivating if they start off a little underpowered, and have to work hard and scramble for every credit.

I think I'm simply going to play by ear and go something like Wayfarer = No upgrades, YT-1300=2 Upgrades, Firespray=4 Upgrades (I will only give them the base attachments, they will have to mod them later, and I will reserve right to veto weapons).

Kind of ironic since the Wayfarer needs the most love.

I started the PCs off with a 1-person bacta tank/medical bay in place of some passenger cabins in their YV-560. Not technically an upgrade, but only 4000 credits and so worth it. Call me Santa.

Generally speaking if you give the PCs a ton of credits you'll find them spending it on things other than what you planned. I agree with those who think you should work with the PCs to gain a starting ship in exchange for Obligation.

I think I'm simply going to play by ear and go something like Wayfarer = No upgrades, YT-1300=2 Upgrades, Firespray=4 Upgrades (I will only give them the base attachments, they will have to mod them later, and I will reserve right to veto weapons).

This just might be me, but I think half the fun of RPG's is starting out with sub-optimal equipment and figuring out ways to use them effectively. My players had to get creative when their first ship wasn't a Falcon 2.0, but a humble little YT-1000 that will probably take critical damage in a stiff breeze. Force them to use their minds and other mechanics the system provides rather than relying on stat numbers to carry them through trying times. In my experience, they ultimately have a more enjoyable and memorable experience doing so. When they figured out how to ditch their pursuers and take down that TIE squadron dogging them using nothing more than an old tramp freighter, a few fuel cells, space duct tape, a couple of gutsy manuevers and a well-coordinated and placed shot from the sole light laser cannon the ship has in a gas giant's atmosphere, they tend to take a lot of pride in those games. And the great thing about a narrative system like EotE? Its a whole lot easier to fudge a few things here and there to make those scenes happen than trying to get around hard numbers in other systems. Not telling you how to GM, but thats my experince.

Side note: the flip side of that whole thing is players tend to hate your frickin guts initially when you put them in those situations and little hint dropping may be required to avoid a TPK.

I'm particularly interested to see if Age of Rebellion gives any Silhouette 5+ warships meant for starting PC use. Considering that one if the careers is focused on Capital Ship warfare, I hope it's an option.

Should be something they get command of with higher Duty ranks, I think. No chargen Duty 0-20 person should be commanding a Blockade Runner, let alone a Nebulon-B, even if they're based on one.

I was thinking of a similar idea for a planetside campaign, but realized that this may be a large amount of money even if I were to chew it up with "expenses" like rent and land vehicles.

With 120,000 credits one could easily purchase a cheaper ship (not even using the "used ship" houserules everyone seems to have) and have it pretty well decked out. With multiple splatbooks with new ships in each one, it's not that hard to find an affordable ship and afford a nice weapon system or other various upgrades.

Don't get me wrong, it may be an interesting way to go ("This is the only nice thing you have right now. Cherish it."), but unless you know the rules, setting, and the players well enough, it may be a tougher thing to manage as they will have a rather capable starship and may be loathe to leave it.

As an example: in an old Star Wars game I ran (one of the first with a group I was still getting to know), the players had a used YT-1300 that had some faulty bits (I think weapons but could be wrong). The first chance they had, they decided to steal a modified YT-2400 that was owned by a Bounty Hunter (6 vs 1; even at level 3 and the hunter was level 20, it wasn't pretty).

From then on, I couldn't touch them in space combat. I had to purposely scale things up and fudge my rolls, and the party seldom went anywhere without their ship being able to swoop in and get them out of the situation.

Never again >_>

I say it depends on the level of experience of the GM and the mindset of the players.

If the GM knows what he is doing and makes it clear with his players what they are supposed to do with the money it can work out wonderfully.

Choosing a ship from a growing list,

roll Streetwise/Negotiation for the upgrades and buying them,

same for equipment,

and setting something aside for harder times.

That way your players don't feel THAT broke at the start. I mean, seriously, i have to take a loan to buy something bigger than a light blaster pistol? And maybe more than just one miscallancy like a first-aid kit?

I'm particularly interested to see if Age of Rebellion gives any Silhouette 5+ warships meant for starting PC use. Considering that one if the careers is focused on Capital Ship warfare, I hope it's an option.

you'll probably get one lent to you if you ask really nicely...or blow up a few bases and get promoted to admiral, you know, the hard way. otherwise, i'd imagine that it'd have to be essential to the particular mission being run. they don't have a lot of those things just lying around unfortunately. but maybe you could have your pc's run a mission for the alliance trying to track down new ships, either from systems like mon cala or from some salvage enterprises on former clone war battlefronts.

as to OP:

i would still limit starting gear to the 500 credits required in character create if you go through with this. though what's left over once they buy their ship though could be a problem if they skimp on the ship they choose and end up with 10000 apiece in "pocket change".

it gets risky doing something like this as they may want their next "new game" to have them start with a ton of xp, "y'know like grizzled vets". i think that the journey is what is most important for the characters and not just giving them cool stuff without earning it at the table. but it's also a balance for what will keep your players interested enough and still stay true to the spirit of the game.

good luck in what you decide.

I'm particularly interested to see if Age of Rebellion gives any Silhouette 5+ warships meant for starting PC use. Considering that one if the careers is focused on Capital Ship warfare, I hope it's an option.

Given how closely character creation in the Beta and production versions of EotE was, I wouldn't get my hopes to high up for something like that. More than likely, we'll see the same options as we got in the default AoR Beta.

Of course, if for a campaign you want the PCs to start off being in command of a Silhouette 5 light cruiser with the necessary crew, that's your right as the GM to do, no matter what the official rules might say on the matter.

As for the primary topic...

Yeah, just giving the PCs a lump sum of 120K credits to buy a ship and then handing them anything left after the ship's purchase is pretty much begging for trouble/exploitation.

For instance, Enter the Unknown has the YT-1000 transport that only runs 75K credits, and while not as good as a YT-1300 in a fight, that only matters if starship encounters are going to be a major element of your campaign. If the ship is mostly "get the PCs from Point A to Point B", then less-than-stellar ship stats won't matter, and in this case your PCs have 45K extra credits to spend on "other things."

If you want your PCs to have more starting funds than the listed 500 without having to take Obligation, simply double (or even triple) the listed starting funds. I've done that a few times, and it's not caused any problems.