Don't forget that the Advanced can now field Ion Pulse Missiles, meaning they might do alright as a control ship in Epic Play as well.

Not that I like the ship or anything; overall it's fairly useless IMO. But if you can make it work, more power to you!

That's good but, for the same price you can have a bomber with the same Ion missiles that also carry 5 point of missiles,torpedoes or bombs. You'll have much more control and options with the Bomber.

Storm Squadron + Ion missiles

or

Gamma Squadron + Ion missiles + Flechette Torpedoes + Seismic charges + Munition Failsafe

That's the real problem, to my mind: a Storm Squadron Pilot is a bit better than a Gamma Squadron Pilot but I struggle to believe he's worth 5 points more - if you target lock (which you need to for ordnance delivery), you're not that much tougher because you can't be using the evade action, and a Bomber's dial isn't that much worse.

Especially since a bomber can carry torpedoes and bombs as well as missiles, and - most importantly - can get a 4-ship, pilot skill 4 element with missiles, whilst the Advanceds can either have a 4th ship or organnce, not both.

I actually prefer the Bomber dial over the Advanced. The 1 straight and 5 k-turn makes up for the red hard 2. But it's a matter of taste, of course. I wonder how this team would fare, worth a try once Ion missiles get out.

4x Gamma Squadron + Ion missiles + Flechette Torpedoes + Seismic charges

Especially since a bomber can carry torpedoes and bombs as well as missiles, and - most importantly - can get a 4-ship, pilot skill 4 element with missiles, whilst the Advanceds can either have a 4th ship or organnce, not both.

Here is a real balance issue... I can field FIVE bombers each with a 4 point missile for 100 points. Or I can field 4 Advanced with a 4 point missile each. That's a huge drop in over all list HP with no real gain. The Advanced doesn't have a dramatically better dial and it has the same base attack. The advantages of the Advanced are situational at best: The ability to Evade along with an extra defense die are their biggest advantages. But, a 4 ship squad will not do as well, typically, as a 5 ship squad with greater overall HP and equal attack die.

As fans, we love the Advanced and have been asking for it to be returned to a position of glory for awhile now.

..., and a Bomber's dial isn't that much worse.

Bomber

vs Advanced

To further prove my point about how the bomber proves the Advanced is WAAAAAY over priced:

Howlrunner+Swarm

Black+Swarm x2

Academy x4

This is a nasty list many of us have seen. It has 7 ships (all attacking with a base of 2) and 21 List HP.

Howlrunner+Swam

Scimitar x5

For the cost of 1 ship (and the ability to have up to 2 more ships firing at PS 8) this list gains 12 HP! (total of 33)

Tempest+Concussion x4

This list has 2 less than the Bomber list and 3 than the Tie Swarm. It has 1 less List HP than the Swarm and 13 less than the Bomber list. While they do gain a missile each, this only increases their damage output (possibly) for one round. You could drop the missiles and add the best 16 point ship possible... which would be a Bomber. But by doing this it only proves you should have just built the proposed Bomber list to begin with!

SOMETHING should be changed to make the Advanced a better dog-fighter than a Bomber. As it stands now, the Advanced is just an overpriced Bomber or an expensive Tie Fighter with two shield upgrades (which would cost you 20 points BTW).

..., and a Bomber's dial isn't that much worse.

Bomber

vs Advanced

Ta. If it had the speed 1 turn like a TIE fighter, I'd be much happier. I'm not convinced it should be any more manouvrable or more heavily armed than a TIE fighter - as tends to be the default suggestion - but I'm equally not convinced it should be less agile.

Still, for the moment I'm going to keep trying with it. Managed to better 4 Push The Limit equipped Royal Guard Pilots with the three suggested above, but that was mostly due to awful rolling on the opposition's behalf - the first shot of the game was Darth Vader's spread of Concussion Missiles blowing a Royal Guard Pilot to shrapnel in a single shot, despite the intervening asteroid.

As it stands now, the Advanced is just an overpriced Bomber or an expensive Tie Fighter with two shield upgrades (which would cost you 20 points BTW).

Given the PS 2 vs PS 1 it is actually exactly the cost of the TIE fighter with two shield upgrades. That's still not worth it, but it has enough things going against it without claiming it's shield upgrades are also over priced.

As it stands now, the Advanced is just an overpriced Bomber or an expensive Tie Fighter with two shield upgrades (which would cost you 20 points BTW).

Given the PS 2 vs PS 1 it is actually exactly the cost of the TIE fighter with two shield upgrades. That's still not worth it, but it has enough things going against it without claiming it's shield upgrades are also over priced.

This just in: upgrade cards are intentionally overpriced so they don't break balance in corner cases. Nobody puts Shield Upgrade or Hull Upgrade on Academy TIE Pilots. More ships is almost always better.

Unless they're low PS ships, better known as Phantom Food.

Unless they're low PS ships, better known as Phantom Food.

Outside of Interceptors who are glass cannons, I can't think of a single even semi-competitive squad that puts Hull Upgrade or Shield Upgrade on a PS1 or PS2 ship.

Nobody puts Shield Upgrade or Hull Upgrade on Academy TIE Pilots. More ships is almost always better.

Did anyone listen to KineticOperator. That is hands dopwn the best explanation on why the ship sucks.

Apparantly not...

I'm still unclear about how this 'slot' is determined? How was the 18 points arrived at for its supposed 'slot'? I can see that the most expensive TIE (Howlrunner) is 18 points, and the cheapest TIE Interceptor (Alpha Squadron) is 18 points.

how about avg points across all pilot choices?

TIE Fighter: avg 15 points

TIE Interceptor: avg 23 points

TIE Advanced; avg 25 points

TIE Defender: avg 31 points

enlighten me?

I'm still unclear about how this 'slot' is determined? How was the 18 points arrived at for its supposed 'slot'?

Because the actual value of the TIE Advanced is around 18 points. Math or extensive playtesting is involved.

I can respect that. But it makes me wonder why FFG chose the numbers they did. They do extensive testing and balancing of their games. As a Netrunner player, sometimes a card can seem 'bad' until something comes out down the road that produces good synergy with it. Might we see a card down the road like upcoming "Chardaan Refit" that takes up the missile slot and lowers the unit cost?

I can respect that. But it makes me wonder why FFG chose the numbers they did. They do extensive testing and balancing of their games. As a Netrunner player, sometimes a card can seem 'bad' until something comes out down the road that produces good synergy with it. Might we see a card down the road like upcoming "Chardaan Refit" that takes up the missile slot and lowers the unit cost?

Almost definitely. And on the flip side, I'd think at some point they'd do the opposite and introduce a mod that lets you add a missile slot to your ship for +2 points.

why isn't it a popular choice?

Well, remember the trench run at the end of Episode 4?

Vader: “I will take them myself, COVER ME!!”

Backstabber: “Yes Sir!!” (F#$%, this is going to take all day)

Mauler Mithal: (This doesn’t seem like the best use of our skills…)

Vader: Pewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpew

Backstabber: (Wow, missed every shot….)

Vader: Pewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpew

Mauler Mithal: “Sir, are the eye holes on your helmet facing forward?

Vader: Pewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpew

Backstabber: (Wedge must be blind from the light show by now…)

Biggs Explodes!!!

Mauler Mithal: “Excellent shot, Sir, you were aiming for Wedge but hit Biggs with a stray shot. Good thing everyone hates Biggs and whittled him down so that you could land that one lucky shot.

Backstabber: “Try putting some duct tape on the trigger and turning the yoke in small circles…

Vader: Pewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpew

Vader: Pewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpew

Vader: Pewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpew

Wedge: I’ve been hit, I can’t stay with you!!” (I not sure if I was hit but I’m bored…probably just cosmetic damage)

Luke: (paraphrased) Biggs was expendable but we need you, run away!!

Backstabber: “Amazing shooting, Sir!! Can you do that again today?”

Mauler Mithal: (I’d have shot these scum down 20 minutes ago, has Vader ever flown before?)

Vader: Pewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpew

Vader: Pewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpew

Vader: Pewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpewpew

R2-D2: (paraphrased) “Oww, mother f$#%@#, how did he miss the whole ship and hit me???”

Vader: “The force is strong with this one…”

Mauler Mithal: “….”

Backstabber: “Of course, that must be the reason he’s not even bothering to swerve anymore…”

Mauler Mithal: “and you’re not even coming close to hitting him….”

Vader: (just gonna twist this random knob a bunch) “I have you now!!!”

Han Solo: “Yee Haaw” or “Yaa hooo” or something

Backstabber: (Thank goodness, sweet relief!!!) PEW PEW (just 2 pews - Han shot first yet again) - Explodes

Mauler Mithal: (Freedom!! Time to pull a Porkins) “Look OUT!!!” Explodes

Vader: (Soooo dizzy, I think I ran out of lasers...)

next time i play i want to try

Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)
Assault Missiles (5)
Munitions Failsafe (1)

Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)
Assault Missiles (5)
Munitions Failsafe (1)

Tempest Squadron Pilot (21)
Assault Missiles (5)
Munitions Failsafe (1)

"Howlrunner" (18)
Determination (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

just hope its against Rebels

target lock and ripple-fire assault missiles at That One Guy You Want Dead

Ouch, bro… why all the hate? *sniffle*

Because it's an efficient way to the Dark Side. We are discussing Vader, after all.

Here, have a free Assault Missile to make it up to you*.

* Note: Assault Missileis provided as seen and may not include fuze safety arming pin. Terms and conditions apply.

Imperial War Machine pack:

titles/mods for the advanced that give it perks and abilities:See wookiepedia for models x2-x7 (and like 5 older threads about this)

2 new named pilots for Tiefighter

1 new pilot for the Firespray

1 new mod for Firespray (prison transport retrofit- trade evade for a second crew slot and 1 hull)

1 new bomb (that is actually useful- ion pulse bombs anyone?)

1 new cannon IMPERIAL ONLY

3 new crew, at least 1 IMPERIAL ONLY

2 new pilots for the advanced (new sith inquisitor from Rebels, one generic with an EPT!)

As for ships... An alt Paint tie fighter would be fun and who knows what else...

It would offer something for every ship the empire has and will get in wave 4. Would be a great stop gap until the empire gets their big ships.

One thing I would like to bring up that I haven't seen mentioned is Proton Rockets depending on what they do they could very well breathe some life into the Advanced as well as bring up the Advanced VS bomber debate for missile carrying again, but we will have to wait until after Imdaar Alpha before we can see the Rebel Aces Spoilers

Unless they're low PS ships, better known as Phantom Food.

Outside of Interceptors who are glass cannons, I can't think of a single even semi-competitive squad that puts Hull Upgrade or Shield Upgrade on a PS1 or PS2 ship.

Nobody puts Shield Upgrade or Hull Upgrade on Academy TIE Pilots. More ships is almost always better.

I mean going lots of low PS is asking to be chewed up by Echo et al.

One thing I would like to bring up that I haven't seen mentioned is Proton Rockets depending on what they do they could very well breathe some life into the Advanced as well as bring up the Advanced VS bomber debate for missile carrying again, but we will have to wait until after Imdaar Alpha before we can see the Rebel Aces Spoilers

Might be something to this.

If there's a Missile that does something like add your agility dice to your attack, the Advanced might be the ideal choice for it.

Chaardan Refit largely takes the A-Wing out of the equation, and the TIE Defender is expensive as hell.

One thing I would like to bring up that I haven't seen mentioned is Proton Rockets depending on what they do they could very well breathe some life into the Advanced as well as bring up the Advanced VS bomber debate for missile carrying again, but we will have to wait until after Imdaar Alpha before we can see the Rebel Aces Spoilers

Might be something to this.

If there's a Missile that does something like add your agility dice to your attack, the Advanced might be the ideal choice for it.

Chaardan Refit largely takes the A-Wing out of the equation, and the TIE Defender is expensive as hell.

Not sure how adding agility dice to your attack would work. It would have to have a base attack of 1 or 2 to not be ridiculously OP. I'm hoping its a cheap missile with base 3 attack that can be used at all ranges. Maybe a small buff at range 1. That would give the Advanced a little added punch and flexibility.

The problem with buffing the Advanced too much is you can make Vader really good. He is already a great pilot in a bad ship. You don't want to make him a great pilot in a good ship.