I've played with them in a few games and found them quite survivable and fun.
Why not TIE Advanced?
I think the main problem with the Advance is that, as so many have said before, they balanced it with Vader as their baseline. This was a mistake.
I've played with them in a few games and found them quite survivable and fun.
Yeah they survive forever but contribute nothing, then get focused down in the end and die pathetically.
Yeah. Lol, you know funny I was thinking... why not jsut give every Adv two actions innately. Would be fun.
Yeah. Lol, you know funny I was thinking... why not jsut give every Adv two actions innately. Would be fun.
and they would still suck.
Because of two things,
The dial
The cost
As others said, for the same amount of points you could get more fighters that survive better or hit harder.
The chief problem with the TIE Advanced is the very low firepower. Maarek is very rarely going to use his ability, and Vader is only passable because two actions with no penalty is incredible and he's a skill 9. Only Advanced i"ve seen run competitively is Vader. And unless ordinance is packed in numbers or on a cheap platform it often isn't worth it.
There's just too many problems with this fighter to seriously consider it in anything other than a list for fun. I have four of them, purchased before this realization, but hoping FFG has a future release to make new pilots and upgrades that make this ship worthwhile to put on the table.
I agree with all statements about the advanced and for that reason bought only 1, so I could field Vader. I have used him a few times and love him. My group mainly play 100pt games but for fun and I occasionally use Vader as a jack of all trades and master of none ship for theme and fun only. I also find he becomes a bit of a fire magnet leaving me options with my other ships.
Would you look to trade one or sell for cheap? Haha.
Or Yknow. You could make a 4 advanced build and call it "slow death"
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Dare you to give it a shot.
Maybe try and get in close at range one. Should have enough health to do risky things.
Also other option is go down to tempests and get two engine upgrades.
I have found Marek Stele and opportunist to be a very good combo. I will run him with Howlrunner and shoot the same target so that she hopefully strips a focus. Any other higher skill works well especially Soontir. Those two together are hot death and Marek has the toughness to go head to head with Rebel ships.
2 things I would like to see to help make the advanced more of a viable ship for play.
Title: Tie Avenger
Tie advanced only
"Your primary weapon can target ships outside of your firing arc" 2 or 3pts
And
New pilot PS 6 with the ability to pass off evade token (like Garven).
Then you would see more tie advanced included in squads.
Did anyone listen to KineticOperator. That is hands dopwn the best explanation on why the ship sucks.
I think the TIE Avenger will a separate ship entirely. beam weapons perhaps?
16 points for 2 agl 6 hull, vs. 21 points for 3 agl 5 health. Generally speaking, it takes the same number of attacks to kill either. The more attack dice in each attack there is, the more the bomber pulls ahead in toughness. On a points basis, the TIE Advanced isn't even in the same room in terms of survivability for points.
To be fair, you forgot to mention that the Advanced have the Evade Action, so it has more survivabilty.... But it's all it has. Depending on what role you want to fill, there is another ship that can probably do it better for less.
I like to use it as a teacher ship. When I show the game to a friend, I take 1 or 2 Advanced plus some Tie Fighters. This way I avoid the Swarm, can show how ordnance works. the value of shields and don't pull crazy maneuver like I could if it was an Interceptor.
2x Storm Squadron + Homing Missiles
Backstabber
Dark Curse
Academy Pilot
16 points for 2 agl 6 hull, vs. 21 points for 3 agl 5 health. Generally speaking, it takes the same number of attacks to kill either. The more attack dice in each attack there is, the more the bomber pulls ahead in toughness. On a points basis, the TIE Advanced isn't even in the same room in terms of survivability for points.
To be fair, you forgot to mention that the Advanced have the Evade Action, so it has more survivabilty.... But it's all it has. Depending on what role you want to fill, there is another ship that can probably do it better for less.
I like to use it as a teacher ship. When I show the game to a friend, I take 1 or 2 Advanced plus some Tie Fighters. This way I avoid the Swarm, can show how ordnance works. the value of shields and don't pull crazy maneuver like I could if it was an Interceptor.
2x Storm Squadron + Homing Missiles
Backstabber
Dark Curse
Academy Pilot
A TIE Advanced will evade 1.125 every attack without modifiers, while a bomber will only evade .75. I'm much more confident sending in Advanced with missiles on an Alpha strike than bombers. I've lost bombers before they could fire their ordnance too many times before. My latest win had the bombers in the rear where they were less likely to be fired upon.
It makes no difference to me if everyone hates them so much. I find good use for the Advanced when I want to use them.
Well, we've been playing a few games at home, and my flatmate has been getting some good results with a 4-bomber alpha strike. He uses 4 Gamma Squadron Pilots with Assault Missiles and Seismic Charges .
Tactics are fairly simple - advance in a pair of fighter wings, target lock and ripple-fire assault missiles at That One Guy You Want Dead TM (picking someone who'll catch secondary targets if he can), then revert to dogfighting and using bombs to clear his six if he needs to.
Comparing to Advanceds:
You could take 4 Advanceds with Concussion missiles, but they'll be Tempest Squadron Pilots at only pilot skill 2. Letting an entire squadron shoot at you first is a recipe for losing a ship with missiles still in the tubes, as far as I can see. I know the advanced is tough but if you're using target lock, you can't simultaneously be using evade, which is it's big ace in the hole compared to bombers.
The problem is that taking anything better - Storm Squadron Pilots, or named pilots, sticks you with a 3-ship fleet, and even if all three survive to fire, I'm not convinced they have the punch to win a dogfight against the survivors.
Still, I figure it's worth a try. It's going to need to rely on a missile alpha strike to do well in a tournament setting, though; you don't have time to win by outlasting people.
The Advanced is not a bad choice for attacking a huge ship in Epic Play, though - the advanced can essentially ignore turbolasers and has the durability to survive multiple quad laser shots. It's a shame you can't pack the shipwrecking Advanced Proton Torpedoes , though - Cluster Missiles are probably your best choice.
Suggested lists:
4 x Tempest Squadron Pilot with Concussion Missiles
Trust in the advanced's shields and evade dice and you should get a four-missile salvo off. If you do, something should be dead. You've got enough firepower in that volley to blow anything up to a B-wing to shrapnel with average rolls.
Cluster Missiles can be subbed in instead at no extra points, but suffer from short range and low damage per attack, making them a poor choice for evasive targets or anything with long-ranged firepower - with low pilot skill, allowing your opponent two turns of fire unanswered except for range three shots from the advanced's popguns is asking for casualties before you launch your missiles.
or
Tempest Squadron Pilot with Concussion Missiles
Maarek Stele with Concussion Missiles and Opportunist
Darth Vader with Concussion Missiles , Swarm Tactics and Shield Upgade
Much higher pilot skill all round - Only three missiles, but two coming in at PS9 and one at PS7 with an extra attack die (note that Opportunist works with secondary weapons, unlike Expose ) can in theory blow an enemy fighter away before it gets to shoot. You're one ship down against most fighter builds and lack punch in the ensuing dogfight, though, no matter how tough you are.
Other options? Well, Engine Upgrade is a common recommendation on Darth Vader and makes for one hell of a dogfighter despite his low firepower - I just don't have any because they only come in the Falcon expansion. Swapping out Opportunist for Veteran Instincts puts all three missile spreads at PS9, and three remaining three would either pay for a Hull Upgrade for someone (or a Shield Upgrade - this is a 99 point list), or swap out any number of Concussion Missiles for Assault Missiles .
The latter are tempting if only as a solution to Biggs Darklighter - the reason my flatmate likes them is that if you want to shelter under Biggs Darklighter or Howlrunner's area effect, you have to sit in range of the area effect from the missiles - but if you split up, you lose the benefit of an expensive pilot.
Edited by Magnus GrendelI have only run Vader but he is now my go to guy with cluster missiles. People can't and generally don't ignore him, so flanking behind asteroids works great as if they turn toward him than you can easy follow behind there squad with the rest of your squad, vader can tank very well, will normally get to shoot his missiles and if they don't turn to face him and he gets behind and stays at range 1 damage can be done.
Going other advance, I don't think you they would be worth the money you laid down to buy it
Under the new rules (12 points to win) the Advanced becomes a bit more attractive. In Epic play, the Advanced is a FANTASTIC escort for Bombers! While I still don't think I would field anyone besides Vader in a 100 point tournament list, I did recently play a VERY fun squad of 2 Advanced and 2 Bombers in an Epic 300 point match. Each player had 100 points to work with and it was a 3 vs 3 fight. My Advanced (w/ missiles) helped walk the bombers in and do serious damage.
Darth Vader + Engine Upgrade + Opportuninst (36)
NASTY. The Opportunist makes up for his lack of firepower, and he is just as maneuverable as an Interceptor with Engine Upgrade. One of your opponents' ships is bound to not be carrying a focus or evade......
I've used this several times and had a lot of luck with it. I still prefer Fel with his upgrades, but this is a great combo.
Darth Vader + Engine Upgrade + Opportuninst (36)
NASTY. The Opportunist makes up for his lack of firepower, and he is just as maneuverable as an Interceptor with Engine Upgrade. One of your opponents' ships is bound to not be carrying a focus or evade......
I've used this several times and had a lot of luck with it. I still prefer Fel with his upgrades, but this is a great combo.
Just wait for Decoy to be released and place it on a BSP, Saber, or RGP. Moves Last and shoots later.
Still, I figure it's worth a try. It's going to need to rely on a missile alpha strike to do well in a tournament setting, though; you don't have time to win by outlasting people.
You have all the time in the world, now that you only need a 12 point margin for an unmodified win. To clarify, my choice is to use them in epic games. There's a place for them (IMO) when you're not limited by such squad build scarcity. I appreciate your other points, though. All valid. (Same for everyone else on the thread.)
Darth Vader + Engine Upgrade + Opportuninst (36)
NASTY. The Opportunist makes up for his lack of firepower, and he is just as maneuverable as an Interceptor with Engine Upgrade. One of your opponents' ships is bound to not be carrying a focus or evade......
I've used this several times and had a lot of luck with it. I still prefer Fel with his upgrades, but this is a great combo.
I'm awaiting the opportunity to fly Vader with Engine Upgrade and Outmaneuver, myself
@ OP: The reason not to fly the TIE Advanced has to do with the way damage is calculated combined with the fact that the X-Wing exists.
Don't forget that the Advanced can now field Ion Pulse Missiles, meaning they might do alright as a control ship in Epic Play as well.
Not that I like the ship or anything; overall it's fairly useless IMO. But if you can make it work, more power to you!