I really like the blue line mechanic on the Huge ships, but we ran into a scenario last game that I had a question on.

A TIE had maneuvered to the side and just behind the GR-75 such that the fore section was obstructed by the rear section but only the fore section was in the TIE's firing arc. Since the center-to-center crossed the blue line, it was obstructed by the rear section, but the rear section wasn't a legal target.

At the time we ruled the shot was ok, since it seemed to me that the intent of the rule was to force fore/aft targeting on the ship, not eliminate it from being a target. We also talked about maybe giving an extra evade die to represent the extreme angle shot.

I'd be interested to see if others have run into this and what they picked and if any other Huge ship issues have come up.

If the rear section is not in the firing arch of a small ship them obviously it cannot fire at the rear section.

If it's facing the front section, but the center to center crosses over the blue line then it cannot shoot at the front section

Yes, thank you, I've read that.

Yes, we ran into this very same problem when I ran the transport. We ruled it that he could shoot simply because we were winning and they were demoralized at being roundly trounced at the time. I'm not sure we made the right call. The above may be right, where it can't shoot either, but I'd really like a FAQ on this.

I'm having a hard time visualizing this. R.G. or Sable can you post a visual representation (picture, drawing) that illustrates this so I can get an idea of how this is happening?

Well if you were shooting in the scenerio above then you were doing it wrong.

Since the center to center crosses the blue line it cannot shoot the back part of the ship, and since the front is not inv is firing arch it cannot target that either

I guess the front is considered to be in the way leaving the small ship with no clear shot

This makes no sense, how can your target use itself as cover to prevent your shot LMAO !!!There needs to be a FAQ update for this, otherwise it's pure nonsense LOL

How can you block someones shot if you are outside of their firing arc?

Crazy times ahead!

As I read the rules; The arc as measured makes the fore the legal target, the obstructing rear (centre to centre) no longer matters, the centre to centre measurement is purely for determining range.

As I read the rules; The arc as measured makes the fore the legal target, the obstructing rear (centre to centre) no longer matters, the centre to centre measurement is purely for determining range.

Range is measured from the edge of the base (attacker) to the edge of the section (plastic base or cardboard). Centre to centre measurement is not for range.

As I read the rules; The arc as measured makes the fore the legal target, the obstructing rear (centre to centre) no longer matters, the centre to centre measurement is purely for determining range.

Here is the actual text of the rule:

"To target the GR-75, choose a section (either fore or aft) of the GR-75 that the attacking ship can target normally. Then, measure a line from the exact conter of the attacking ship's base to the exact center of the base for the chosen section of the GR-75. If this line is not obstructed by the blue center line on the GR-75's ship token, the attacker can declare the chosen section as his target.

The range of the attack is determined by the line measured from the closest point of the attacking ship to the closest point of the chosen GR-75 section that is inside the attacking sip's firing arc. If using an attack that ignores firing arcs, this line is measured without regard to firing arc."

It is quite clear by the rules that neither section of the GR-75 can be targeted in the above diagram.

I stand corrected. Interesting.

I assume that this is a case where the weird situation was deemed rare enough that rules elegance trumps avoid strange corner cases. That said, it wouldn't surprise me if they eventually did add a bit via the FAQ to say that the untargeted section can only block your shot if you could have targeted it in the first place.

It is disappointing that this situation wasn't picked up during play-testing. Or, if it was, then it is disappointing that the rules as written do not allow the small ship to shoot.

This is analgous to a situation in 1st Edition Space Hulk, where one Genestealer, that was otherwise in the open, could 'hide' behind another untargetable Genestealer. Rules as written allowed both Genestealers to laugh at the Space Marine Terminator, who was unable to fire upon either of them. GW released a FAQ in White Dwarf 142, Page 19, that fixed the situation. A Genestealer could no longer 'hide' behind another untagetable Genestealer, it would be considered in line of sight, with the blocking Genestealer being assumed to hug the wall.

Shown clearly in dvor's diagram, the huge ship is inside the fire arc of the small ship. The small ship should be able to take the shot. The huge ship should not be able to use itself as blocking cover against the shot.

Luckily, Epic Tournaments should mostly be played for fun. Until FFG release a FAQ fixing this, it would be wise for players to use common sense and allow the small ship to fire away!

Logic, to me, says you should be able to shoot. The rules seem to disagree however. I fully suspect the "blue line rule" is there so that you must target the nearer section when approaching from the front or rear.

In the situation diagramed you're barely leading the target.

Has anyone sent in a rule request on this?

(I'm going to fire one off as well just for the heck of it).

I think that they missed the implied inference of not having a choice of shots. If you can shoot both, you check blue centerline to see if one blocks your shot to the other. If you only have one choice then you use the normal rules for firing on a target. But the rules for targeting the transport don't state to do this.

They thought that they were talking about when you have both in arc, not one. But they missed the singular opportunity with the targeting rules that they provided and have now ruled a legal shot invalid because of it.

It is disappointing that this situation wasn't picked up during play-testing. Or, if it was, then it is disappointing that the rules as written do not allow the small ship to shoot.

This is analgous to a situation in 1st Edition Space Hulk, where one Genestealer, that was otherwise in the open, could 'hide' behind another untargetable Genestealer. Rules as written allowed both Genestealers to laugh at the Space Marine Terminator, who was unable to fire upon either of them. GW released a FAQ in White Dwarf 142, Page 19, that fixed the situation. A Genestealer could no longer 'hide' behind another untagetable Genestealer, it would be considered in line of sight, with the blocking Genestealer being assumed to hug the wall.

Shown clearly in dvor's diagram, the huge ship is inside the fire arc of the small ship. The small ship should be able to take the shot. The huge ship should not be able to use itself as blocking cover against the shot.

Luckily, Epic Tournaments should mostly be played for fun. Until FFG release a FAQ fixing this, it would be wise for players to use common sense and allow the small ship to fire away!

I'm sure there is a valid reason for the blue line

The way I look at it is this.

In the diagram above the small ship cannot fire at the front section because it's not in sight, yet the back is. However the center to center crosses the blue line.

Now try doing this.

Go out side and stand right beside a long trailer at one end.

Now look down the other end.

You can see it.

Now throw a ball straight from where your standing and try to hit the far end.

That how I see it.

In the above diagram your so close to the huge ship that trying to Target the other end is impossible cause you have no clear shot

Rules are rules and if you decide to break them then that is up to you but Imo that would be broken. If you won the game playing that way, I could see why.

Don't forget these huge ships have 0 agility. Another reason for the blue line rule Imo.these things can drop fast in a 300 pt game when focus fired on. Literally killed in one turn. Once things get in range 1-2 if a small tieswarm, and couple large ships with hlc focus fired, she dead

Ffg made the rule very clear. No need to send them a email or anything to ask them a question on a rule that obviously doesn't need an answer.

I don't really understand the confusion behind it.

Also this center to center rule effects small ships more than large ones I have found.

In some cases when we have played a large ship was able to shoot whereas if it was a small ship it could not

Ffg made the rule very clear. No need to send them a email or anything to ask them a question on a rule that obviously doesn't need an answer.

I don't really understand the confusion behind it.

Also this center to center rule effects small ships more than large ones I have found.

In some cases when we have played a large ship was able to shoot whereas if it was a small ship it could not

It actually doesn't make any sense. You cannot shoot at the only section in arc because you are blocked by another section that isn't in arc.

That's like saying you can't see Ford Prefect because he has a towel wrapped around his head, and because he can't see you, you therefore can't see him.

IMHO the range measurement line should be used for (not) crossing the blue line.

IMHO the range measurement line should be used for (not) crossing the blue line.

This actually doesn't work, since if you are all to the side of it, the closest point is going to be the edge of the back section, drawn to the edge of your base. So unless you are literally right in front of the CR-90, you could shoot the back of it. Any fraction of an inch to the side and you would be able to shoot the rear. That's why they have the center post to center post rule.

Ffg made the rule very clear. No need to send them a email or anything to ask them a question on a rule that obviously doesn't need an answer.

I don't really understand the confusion behind it.

Also this center to center rule effects small ships more than large ones I have found.

In some cases when we have played a large ship was able to shoot whereas if it was a small ship it could not

It actually doesn't make any sense. You cannot shoot at the only section in arc because you are blocked by another section that isn't in arc.

That's like saying you can't see Ford Prefect because he has a towel wrapped around his head, and because he can't see you, you therefore can't see him.

That's how I visualize it.

The huge ships are large. It only makes sense that if your at one end and close enough to it that you would not be able to shoot the other end.

I understand ffg concept quite well. No sense in arguing with me. I'm not the one who made the rule. I just understand the reasoning behind it.

I don't see how a Towel over your head is the same concept. That is irrelevant in this scenerio.

Anyway play that way if you want, but if it was a tournament game your strategy would not work.

Just want to add again that this is a ship with 0 agility. Focus fire kills it quick. No need to make it weaker than it already is. Total 12 hp. 3 shuttles with hlc could kill it in one turn

What I get from the rules as written is the definition of what to do when you have both sections in arc. They just forgot about what happends when one section is in arc (and therefore the blue line is not necessary). That is why I sent in a rules query.

The Ford Prefect analogy was to point out how wrong the current rules makes the shot not possible in a similarly broken logical sequence. In case you missed it it is out of the Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy, and is a most amusing book about broken logical concepts.

giggle, i was just thinking about the improbability drive and the potted petunia... he he.

Ok, but I don't recall anything in the rules statinganything about choosing which section to shoot at.

It only states that when targeting a section you have to check the center to center.

They designed the huge ships to fly like one which I think they did a excellent job, and I believe the targeting of them is the same concept.

You can't stand next to a long wall,and by throwing a ball straight hit the other end. Step away a littlebit however and you could hit the other end. Just like in this situation. If your ship was over just a little more than maybe you can get that shot in, so long as it's in your arch

Just like in this situation. If your ship was over just a little more than maybe you can get that shot in, so long as it's in your arch

From dvor's excellent diagram, the furthest section of the huge ship is in the fire arc of the small ship. There's a legitimate shot to be taken.

FFG appear to play test their rules very well. However, very well does not equal perfect. While the game is generally well balanced, it's not perfectly balanced. This I have come to realise the more that I play. Some ships are better than others. Some rules do create loopholes that need fixing. Like Sergovan, I feel that FFG neglected to include this particular situation in the rules. It's an oversight, an accidental ommission, which is disappointing. I wouldn't be surprised if the rules for the huge ships were hurried along more than FFG would have liked - spelling mistakes on Leia's card, for example.

I am more than happy to play with house rules when I believe that an official rule is broken and needs fixing. I'll be playing and ruling that the shot is valid. Given that it will only matter for my 'fun' Epic Tournaments, I expect that all of my players will agree to abide by common sense.