I'm not starting this thread to bash x-wing. This is a good game. I've just been frustrated I guess the same with myself regarding it. I've been playing off and on for a year and I just can't make it work. I don't expect to be some sort of store champion a regional champion, but I at least like to get close to or just above a .500 winning percentage. in contrast I play Star Trek attack wing, & I have won of several events there including winning the Deep Space nine. yes I know there are differences between the two games, I just find it hard to believe that I can be so well in one in so horrible in the other.

I know my piloting needs work. And for some reason my dice rolls are horrible. But I also seem to just not get the list building done correctly. Is this game a game where the named pilots its just are not worth it? for instance I want to use Wes Jansen, but I have a feeling he's just too expensive. I know which is a must-have as is howlrunner, but is that it?

I feel my desire to use these named pilots in there cool abilities is really hamstring my list building. I feel like most the name pilots I should not even be using. To be honest I'm wondering what ships are useful for what anymore. I just can't make a list that seems to do decently.

I'm considering just stop buying anymore miniatures for this game and just occasionally play for fun.I don't want to go down that route since I've bought at least one of every ship.so I'm asking help from the community to help talk me off the ledge. I guess I need help figuring out two things.

-other than the stand bys like wedge and Howlrunner, are named pilots worth it?

-what roles do all the ships in X Wing have? should I have only one of certain ships, and or should I feel the multiples?

I am sorry if this is sounding whiny. But I have been trying to figure this out on my own and I can't do it . I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is something I can fix for me or if its a lost cause.

First;

what are you preferring to play Rebel or Imperial

Second;

Give us an idea of what fleets you've played with

Third;

What have you got in the way of ships

I was playing in a small tournament with Luke with Draw Their Fire and R2 D2, Horton (Y Wing) and a BWing. I was doing pretty well until people realized Luke should die first. I made the mistake of letting Luke be in front on the last game and got my butt handed to me easily because Luke died first, quickly. My lesson for that game was to keep Luke in back so that he has a chance to roll more evade dice and let the BWing and YWing do their damage, kept alive somewhat by Luke.

Each game has its lessons.

The biggest mistakes I've seen involve how people joust with a lot of ships. The ships get separated and it's easy to pick them off if the other side has an easier time keeping its ships together in formation.

I don't know what makes one player better or worse, luckier or not. But skillful flying, limiting your exposure to shots and maximizing the enemy's exposure to shots is a lot of it. How to do that is another whole school of thought.

My suggestion is pick a list that has done well in a competitive setting, or design one of your own.

Keep flying that list time and time again. As you learn it's weaknesses and how to fly it, adjust the list or your game play.

Named pilots are worth it in the context of the right list with the right upgrades. Keep in mind though that x wing is very balanced and there are counters that will trump a few high PS pilots. Often a large squad of low PS will trump a few high PS pilots, and slightly fewer mid level PS will often trump the large low PS squad.

If you like rebels and named pilots try one named pilot+upgrades with Biggs and some support ships. Biggs will help to keep your named pilot alive longer.

Also keep in mind that Xwing can be very random especially If you are not focusing or target locking what you shoot. Don't blame a loss on your ability if it was from the dice, but also be aware enough to insure as many dice rolls with actions as you can.

start off withOUT playing named pilots. get the feel for the ships and what they can do (plus you can get more of them on the board). Then when you feel you have a good grasp of them, add a named pilot or 2. and try that.

and most importantly TAKE FOCUS or TARGET LOCKS on a target. the game is won with rerolls. you can't rely on perfect rolls. Sometimes your dice are hot or cold, but when people blame the dice I get a little angry. as I said dice can be hot or cold, but a reroll for cold dice can change the game. Now you can have what happened to me. Biggs with r2f2 stealth behind an astorid AND at range 3. SO 6 dice for an attack. 1 evade rolled.

Same game Wedge could not hit anything and he had extra dice. granted rolling 4 to 5 dice with exposed is nice, but without the rerolls he was not as kick ass as he could have been.

I feel the same and didn't played the game since January...

I've always been quite "good" with dice but with X-Wing it's a complete disaster games after games after games. It's horribly frustrating to the point where I don't feel like playing the game anymore.

I know it's not a flaw with the game, X-Wing is amazing and fun but when your last 4+ games were horribly lost, not because you manoeuvered like a newborn baby but because you can't roll s***, it can get on your nerves pretty bad.

I have flown with both and I think i am going to try more with the Rebels because I hear they can be a little more forgiving. My flying isn't good enough to field swarms. But I have been toying with a TIE Bomber list.

Lists I have used in competitive tournament play:

-Vader Advanced, Turr, and Fel 0'fer

-Horton Salm and Han Solo 1 and 4

-Howlrunner with I think 2 TIEs and 2 Interceptors 0'fer

-Ibby, Wedge, and Biggs 0-5 at Worlds.

At Worlds I know 2 of my games were completed shot when it came down to a dice roll failing when I had everything set in my favor.

I have:

2 Bs

3 Xs

2 Ys

2 Falcons

3 As

1Hwk 290

1 Slave 1

1 Shuttle

3 TIE Bombers

1 TIE Advanced

4 TIES

2 Interceptors

1 Imperial Aces pack

I had the same feeling recently. Managed about 20 games so far and until the other day (and after a lot of advice via a FB group) I hadnt ever had a win. Usually I'd lose all my ships and not even take a rebel off the board.

But the advice that worked for me was, pick a squad a stick with it for a while. And the more ships the better, so you can practise movement. Most of my losses come down to stupid bumps and not being in the right arcs, so if you get that sorted you'll be half way there

And then with said squad, you can see what works and what doesnt, and very slightly tweak it between games. An upgrade swap here, a named pilot swap there.

Practise moving alone too, like set up a bunch of asteroids and try and get around them without touching them. My other main issue was not gauging where templates would land me very well, so again I'd lose out of a round of shooting or an action.

Looking at your lists, I am guessing you have missed one important difference between X-Wing and virtually all other miniatures games. The big-name, high cost units in most games are simply better. Better at moving, better at hitting, better at surviving. In X-Wing this is not the case. While the high-PS named pilots have advantages, there are also things they are WORSE at than their low PS generic counterparts. The single largest example of this is blocking. Low PS ships are better at moving and still getting their actions (and denying actions to your opponent) than high PS ships are.

You mentioned Wedge as an autoinclude, but he is anything but. Wedge has all the vulnerability of a PS 2 Rookie pilot, combined with the vulnerability of losing his actions. At 29 points he is significantly less survivable than a 21 point Rookie. His advantage is that he hits much harder, and earlier. If your list does not provide significant methods to keep him alive (usually Biggs, but it could be Outer Rim Smugglers or Prototypes to block, or a wingman with Draw their Fire) then his points are almost certainly wasted.

Take the advice offered here, and try playing a few championship lists. Maybe watch a game or two on Youtube where that particular list was used in a tournament by someone who really understood how to leverage it. You will find that the game starts to click, and get a lot more enjoyment out of it. You are just coming up against the fact that X-Wing is a much, much deeper game than it appears on the surface. It is something you will begin to appreciate and enjoy, but it can make it frustrating if you are not yet seeing the subtle reasons why you are not succeeding.

Good luck. :-)

I have flown with both and I think i am going to try more with the Rebels because I hear they can be a little more forgiving. My flying isn't good enough to field swarms. But I have been toying with a TIE Bomber list.

Lists I have used in competitive tournament play:

-Vader Advanced, Turr, and Fel 0'fer

-Horton Salm and Han Solo 1 and 4

-Howlrunner with I think 2 TIEs and 2 Interceptors 0'fer

-Ibby, Wedge, and Biggs 0-5 at Worlds.

At Worlds I know 2 of my games were completed shot when it came down to a dice roll failing when I had everything set in my favor.

I have:

2 Bs

3 Xs

2 Ys

2 Falcons

3 As

1Hwk 290

1 Slave 1

1 Shuttle

3 TIE Bombers

1 TIE Advanced

4 TIES

2 Interceptors

1 Imperial Aces pack

You have all the ships you need, for now...

I suggest running a Han shoots first list, or Chewbacca with blues. Take gunner on Chewie, with Han you have a few more options. These are both very good lists that are very forgiving to movement and less random than most lists because of Han's ability or gunner.

one piece of advice that I have not used is flying Chewbacca on the Falcon with draw their fire. Could that be a viable option? Also I've been considering using to Y Wings with turrets and an r2. I do concede that on my list that had eggs I did have some options possum ships to should not have been put on and Biggs was naked.

if I wanted to change of pace could I make a decent list with the tie bombers? Considering my lack of skill.

DTF is good on chewie, but it requires being in range one to the ship you are pulling the crit off of.

This is a tried and true list that could serve as a nice baseline... it gives nice movement options with EH on chewie and the ability to BR before you reveal your dial on the blues, protects your taking actions with the blues because of AS, and reduces randomness because you insure that you get actions on the blues and gunner gets you rerolls with chewie. And It has a great named pilot!

Chewbacca, Gunner, Expert Handling, Millennium Falcon (50)

Blue Squadron Pilot, Advanced Sensors (25)

Blue Squadron Pilot, Advanced Sensors (25)

It's the kind of list I would recommend based on your frustrations.

It's not the lack of skill, but your lack of bombers that mean you probably can't make a great bomber list yet. Bomber ordinance squad usually runs 4 although you could sub in ties, bomber swarm uses 5 with no upgrades and usually howlrunner.

Bombers are not a good choice if you're frustrated by dice though. Randomness often means two evades, or attack dice do very little. With ordinance randomness means you may have a 3-6 point upgrade do absolutely nothing.

You can make a very good list with bombers. However, they are effective when run either as a swarm or with ordnance. If you run them as part of a swarm (say, 5 Scimitar and Howlrunner) then you will have to get used to maneuvering a big formation. If you run them as true bombers (Jonus with Squad Leader, 3 Scimitars, armed to taste) then they will be pretty tricky to learn to use. Ordnance weapons are challenging, because of their limited range (can't hit at R1 for example) and the requirement to have a TL to shoot.

If I were you, I would pick something with a mini-swarm and an anchor piece. This will give you good practice at maneuvering in formation, but at a manageable size. It will also give you a tough list, with a high-powered shooter which is something you seem to enjoy. Here is one that you can try.

Howlrunner (Swarm Tactics)

Mauler Mithel (Swarm Tactics)

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Either a Shuttle or a Firespray, loaded with whatever you want in order to bring the list to about 98-99 points.

It isn't the easiest list to play, but it will teach you a lot and quickly. Move the 4 TIEs in formation, with the named TIEs in back (I prefer a pinwheel formation, but with only 4 TIEs any formation will work). The Academy Pilots will let you grab territory, and help keep you from losing actions to blocking (and help you learn how and why to block others). The Swarm Tactics on your 2 named TIEs will let you see how effective fire can be when coming in at high PS. The anchor ship will help you learn how to maneuver a high-value ship in a way that gets the most from them. I doubt you will win the first game you play, but you will start winning at some point and it will be because you have started to sort out some of the most important but subtle mechanics in the game.

I'm not trying to be too rude about this but the "I'm not succeeding so I guess I just can't do well and should maybe just give up" is a terrible attitude to take into any endeavor. Any game worth playing will not be easy and you might spend your whole game career with minimal success, but the moment you stop really trying to improve and just accept your own mediocrity you have pretty much quit the game already. Play for fun and try to improve, constantly examine your games and why things went the way they went.

On the upside you do at least seem to be taking responsibility for your own failures and not blaming the game, once a person gets to that point they will likely never get past it unless a miracle happens to improve their mindset.

-Vader Advanced, Turr, and Fel 0'fer

-Horton Salm and Han Solo 1 and 4

-Howlrunner with I think 2 TIEs and 2 Interceptors 0'fer

-Ibby, Wedge, and Biggs 0-5 at Worlds.

These lists are not very forgiving...

Try some of the well proven squads before moving into more "complicated" squads where you need to know how to fly them properly.

I'm thinking a YT + 2 X-Wings or a YT + 2 B-Wings should be good for you, as suggested by JFunk. A 2 X-Wing + 2 B-Wing list might work well for you as well!

I'm not trying to be too rude about this but the "I'm not succeeding so I guess I just can't do well and should maybe just give up" is a terrible attitude to take into any endeavor. Any game worth playing will not be easy and you might spend your whole game career with minimal success, but the moment you stop really trying to improve and just accept your own mediocrity you have pretty much quit the game already. Play for fun and try to improve, constantly examine your games and why things went the way they went.

On the upside you do at least seem to be taking responsibility for your own failures and not blaming the game, once a person gets to that point they will likely never get past it unless a miracle happens to improve their mindset.

My attitude when I play is jovial and fun. I do not look to try and win every time I play and let that get in the way of the game. And when I go home again from a tournament, i try and analyze what went wrong and what went wrong in my list. I do not think it will be easy and I have never thought the issues were anything else but my own. I never blame the game for my loss. Because the moment I say "That ship is too cheesy" or "That combo is cheesy," then that means the game is broken and there is no reason to play.

I am not looking to be a champion I am looking to be competitive. The experience of playing is enjoyable. But when you lose time and time again, it starts to get a little frustrating. Yes this game is supposed to be for fun, but I would like to win sometimes. Which is why I reached out to the community.

I am sorry if this is sounding whiny. But I have been trying to figure this out on my own and I can't do it . I guess I'm trying to figure out if this is something I can fix for me or if its a lost cause.

I just want to point out that you are not whining. You are asking for help in a place where you are likely to get some good advice.

Being frustrated causes a lot of people just to give up, you are actively seeking to improve your game experience instead. I think that's awesome.

just to put some perspective I've played about 40 games since I started, about 3months ago and haven't won one, but what the hell I enjoy the game and don't play the same squad every time, I just enjoy the game.

I know the frustration of losing games, even in a non-competitive setting. I finally got my first win running an Imperial list last weekend, and have a .333 win percentage so far. In several of the games, I just couldn't get a break with the dice. It's all a learning experience. Plus, the win was against a buddy of mine, and I think it was his first loss . Motivation enough to keep playing .

Elite pilots, unfortunatly, suck. Sort of. You listed a buch of 2-3 squad ships, and a single Hybrid Swarm(which was the best list you gave.)

Building around named pilots is just that. Building around them. You have to work in combos and psynergies between your pilots.

Let's look at Ibby Wedge and Biggs. They are all good ships. But Biggs being the best teamate ever aside, they don't offer much to each other. They are all different Pilot Skills, making flying together harder on you. Wedge and Ibby are both Offensive Juggernaughts, but Ibby is an up close dogfighter who wants to be stressing herself all the time while Wedge would rather sit back and snipe. Who does Biggs Cover? He can't help both. Beyond that you only have 3 ships attacking here, and 18 total hits to take. X-wings go down fast. an XXBB list with any one of your named pilots would be much better, as it gives you 25% more firepower, and 30% or so more hull for the same cost.(Estimated percentages)

If you insist on named pilots you need everybody to be helping everybody. Garven, Kyle, and Dutch are really good at this. Luke with r2 and DTF is great at this. Biggs is the best at this. Dutch, Garven, and Kyle can manage a pretty beastly support squad. But the firepower sucks. Don't run it. You want at least 9 Attack dice on the table if one of your ships is Large. Otherwise you want 10-12. Howlrunner Tie Swarms can hit 14.

Pick a pilot you like. Surround them with other ships you like. Aim for 4+ Rebel small ships, or 5+Imperial Small Ships. Look at established build structures like XXBB and find a setup like that which works for you. My personal Favorite is Shuttle, Firespray, two ties. It has a ton of customization to it.

Shoot try and find another B Wing, then you can field the Triple B, Double A list

Yes its all low PS skill and no named pilots but its a very forgiving list due to amount of ships and firepower you are fielding. Its a solid list that has been making the rounds

I'm new to the game, so I don't have build and/or tactical advice to give. So, I'll ask meta and strategy questions instead, hoping that it will elicit maybe another angle.

How good are the players you play with? In my environment, I have some people who are also new, and I've beaten them, and then there are some veteran players that just clean my clock. Just like in chess, skill matters. Are you playing in a league of players that you have no business competing against? If'n'when you do, are you paying attention to what they're doing, and asking them questions as a learner?

In addition to learning how to fly without banging into your own or asteriods, how much thought are you giving to anticipating what your opponent will do? I practice playing solo by planning 2 or 3 options for my rebels, and then letting a dice decide which one they're going to go for. Because rebels tend to have higher PS, it means that in planning those 2-3 options, I have to really think about where that swarm of academy pilots is going to move. That's a thought process that's worthwhile to have. Unfortunately, I'm not getting into the mind of another player.

"If you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles"

Also, don't blame the dice. That's just cheesy, and robs your opponent of his/her moment.

Elite pilots, unfortunatly, suck. Sort of. You listed a buch of 2-3 squad ships, and a single Hybrid Swarm(which was the best list you gave.)

Building around named pilots is just that. Building around them. You have to work in combos and psynergies between your pilots.

Let's look at Ibby Wedge and Biggs. They are all good ships. But Biggs being the best teamate ever aside, they don't offer much to each other. They are all different Pilot Skills, making flying together harder on you. Wedge and Ibby are both Offensive Juggernaughts, but Ibby is an up close dogfighter who wants to be stressing herself all the time while Wedge would rather sit back and snipe. Who does Biggs Cover? He can't help both. Beyond that you only have 3 ships attacking here, and 18 total hits to take. X-wings go down fast. an XXBB list with any one of your named pilots would be much better, as it gives you 25% more firepower, and 30% or so more hull for the same cost.(Estimated percentages)

If you insist on named pilots you need everybody to be helping everybody. Garven, Kyle, and Dutch are really good at this. Luke with r2 and DTF is great at this. Biggs is the best at this. Dutch, Garven, and Kyle can manage a pretty beastly support squad. But the firepower sucks. Don't run it. You want at least 9 Attack dice on the table if one of your ships is Large. Otherwise you want 10-12. Howlrunner Tie Swarms can hit 14.

Pick a pilot you like. Surround them with other ships you like. Aim for 4+ Rebel small ships, or 5+Imperial Small Ships. Look at established build structures like XXBB and find a setup like that which works for you. My personal Favorite is Shuttle, Firespray, two ties. It has a ton of customization to it.

This all of this!

thanks for all the advice guys. It has been a real help. I should point I did screw up because I only have one B wing.

for the playerbase the I am running against, I am in the Twin Cities metro area so there are a lot of good players around here. I think that is a huge part of it. Lately I have been running into asteroids so I do need to practice maneuvers around them.

it sounds like there at three types of ships, support ships, mediocre ships, and skilled ships. With this in mind it sounds like I need a lot of mediocre ships, and 1 support ship or 1 skilled ship. or could I have one supports ship, one skilled ship, and two mediocre ships in a rebel build?

As far as bad dice are concerned I like to limit them by nearly always tl+f. Then I try and figure out the best way to get there. That pretty much limits me to only flying rebel, but there are a lot of ways to get there. Fcs on B's is my personal fav ATM. I actually prefer fcs over adv sensor because it's cheaper and gives me two actions. Blue with fcs is also pretty cheap at 24 points. Being able to reroll blanks and then change any eyeballs usually results into 2 or 3 hits per attack. Dice are fickle so you have to do your best at limiting the bad results. I would highly recommend getting another b and run the pair of them with some named x's. I like garven because of his ability to pass focus. If I get into a jam and need to pull reds I still can get at least one focus back.

If you have a ton of good players in your area then do the following

Step 1:

PUT YOUR DICE UP!

Step 2:

Ask fellow peers to watch their games and if possible discuss why they are doing certain actions and manuevers

Step 3:

Ask same peers to play a few games where its step by step and they let you determine your moves and then have them give their input on what they would do

I did this when starting out and the wealth of knowledge I received has been invaluable to me and I have become a very competent player that many new players are sent to me to learn/play because I make them do those 3 steps first

Everyone knows us here in the gamer community for the most part are more than willing to impart our knowledge on people who ask for it....if you dont ask we wont know that you want to improve and learn