It's like Yang vs. Holding Ground, when Holding Ground would decrease the damage of an attack.

Because it changes Gnome from a 2 to a 7. This is an increase.

Notice it does not say "this attack may not receive any damage bonuses" (bonii, if you prefer).

MegaGeese said:

(*Must NOT say anything about prefering boniiing MG's mother. Don't say it. Don't say it. ****.*)

I remember the old ruling that a "vitality gain" was the effect of something that says "gain vitality," and not the effect of something that sets the vitality to set amounts (even if it causes vitality to increase). Two questions:

1) Isn't about time that ruling was re-evaluated, in light of the fact that it's counter-intuitive and causes so many questions?

2) If it stands, isn't it about time that it was incorporated into the Advanced Rules? I did a search and couldn't find anything specific on the terms "vitality gain" or "gain vitality."

For what's it's worth, just ride a horse and tell Ken to stuff his momentum gain. End of story.

Antigoth said:

A sex change may be required.

Homme Chapeau said:

I hear that Ivy will let men get away with playing that ability.

Antigoth said:

As opposed to the Gorgeous Team.

I think it's not that impractical.

Build off of Good (include Siegfried's support for anti-control AND symbol gain). Play Poison Touch. Do nothing to it (or use More Machine than Woman to commit problem foundation like Prominent Noblewoman or others). Ken F, burn and commit out. Proceed with turn.

Or use Arrogant and Insolent on a second Poison Touch backed by an Amy's and burn/commit some more.

But it should only be considered a method of mass committal with bonus rather than a kill card. A start to a kill turn, if you will.

Antigoth said:

You know, it's kind of funny, but techinically the R on this doesn't do anything, as abilities don't have vitality. *snerk*

Clever, clever Aslum =p

so what ive come down to is that i need a way to recur attacks in mountain so that way i can play the poison touch more then once and ready ken with either arrogant and insolent or maybe even no I in team....

but if i can play poison touch twice in a turn and get it to burn them i would only have to do 8 to a 30 health character and i could go off the next turn like that

play a few attack to do 8 damage take them down to 22 then play poison touch(might be part of what does the 8 damage)......F commit they lose 8 life then go down to 16.....ready ken then play another poison touch.....F commit again they take 16 and die

its only 5 this way for a 20 life character

I just want to say this:

There are quicker, less sophisticated ways to kill than this 30-turn monstrosity. Let's not forget what foundation Ken's Earth and Void symbols happen to have in common

MarcoPulleaux said:

We're talking about The ways of punishment aren't we???

30 turns? You call three turns 30?

First of all, Earth and Good have enough damage reduction to survive as long as it's needed. Secondly, there's like 7 different cards, with Earth AND Good (or Infinity), that can grant Ken the Chaos/Death/Evil he needs.

Even better is that with an attack lineup made up solely of the new Death/Earth throws (which all except the Crocodile have 3 checks) and Earth's damage pump via Hugo and Rashotep, you may be looking at 10 to 15 damage just from the attacks, before you even play the Poison Touch (which will double the damage for 2 diff). Even then, the Poison Touch may not be needed.

MarcoPulleaux said:

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yes, but this building a deck for the heck of it. decks like this are always awesome.

guitalex2008 said:

Drop a Siggy card or Death seal. If your opponent doesn't deal with it, next turn play a couple steroids throws and hope to reduce them to half life. If you succeed, throw the Poison Touch for the rest of their vitality guaranteed. If not, try again next turn. Earth/Good is an excellent combination for a turtling deck, and Poison Touch is just there to dramatically reduce the amount of work you need to do -- and hence reduce the amount of your deck that goes to killing and free up space for tanking, drawing, counter-controlling, etc etc

guitalex2008 said:

Within 3 turns, the average player is only gonna play 9 to 15 foundations, meaning a single Poison Touch kills no character, except for maybe Leona.

I realize you're telling me you can run other attacks, like Flooded-Nile Throw and Monster Lariat

And I'm telling you you're best off doing the following:

Use Ken's extremely broken F to tap them out at no cost

Ditch their hand by the aforementioned means

They have no hand, no backfield, so just pummel them. Tiger Furys, Ryu's Shin Shoryukens, Felines, the list is extensive, and doesn't require a multi-symbol card pool, misplaced Seal of Cessations, or what's worse, running Needs no Ally or Chosen by Soul Calibur.

I understand the excitement, but really, get over it. Jesus, Pillar of Flame **Rikuo** Land Walk was a WAY more exciting multi-symbol combo, and only Quazark seemed to give a ****.

wouldnt it be easier to just run dan and his punch with a possible 20 damage.doesnt it work like that??

Shinji: re-read Ken. His opponent has to already have lost some vitality before you can use his Form. You can't do it from the opponent having full health.

otakuV: No, it doesn't. This was already brought up in this very thread.

Tagrineth said:

OK but was it established that they have to gain the exact amount, or just gain vitality? He's still insanely good.

MarcoPulleaux said:

Rhythm Break, not Land Walk. Holy **** Land Walk lol, THAT would be a stupendously cumbersome combo. When you need Hualin's Shop to go off, you've got to ask yourself some questions about your deck.

A single Poison Touch with no damage pumps cannot kill any character unless they burn themselves somehow. However, a single Poison Touch thrown after a pair of 9 damage throws kills any 20 vitality character, excluding Tira's Contract, redux, lifegain (ironically), and assuming blocks on all attacks. And it ain't so hard to get 2 9dmg throws anymore.

Hualin's... now THERE is a card to use...

also, I totally didn't give it a chance, I built the deck in the car on the ride back to my house from GenCon in 15 minutes and it was the only way I could find to make promo Rikuo work. I was like half dead from lack of sleep and who knows what the hell my mind was thinking when I decided to build that deck, much less play it the next day.

Well as far as im concerned the deck is undefeated to this point....except my first test game where i lost to a silly rock howard deck who gained all his vitality back with 3 powerful styles on his turn 3 when i would have killed him guaranteed next turn even if he gained back half the damage i did which was around 20 on turn 2...

anyways it usually doesnt take longer then turn 3 to kill any 20 health character or less.....i know it takes some set up but its better then you are giving it credit for.....trust me build the deck yourself and see