Right, pretty much what it says on the tin guys - One of the players in my campaign has purchased the Corchemco "Quickflash" Burning Gel and as the Core Rulebook states, said player has iterated that it requires no Roll at all for use. However, he wants the option to use it in combat.

I've basically said that it would require a Coordination check, but he then stated it would be an average check as all melee attacks come under that bracket. My argument is that that makes it a little simple to use something so overtly broken against a single enemy.

Any suggestions?

How do you get it on someone else without getting it on yourself?

The Rules As Written for this item apply only to non-combat use, where you can take your time, etc.... But that's not at all how it would work in combat.

So, given that there would be splatter, and you'd have to apply it at Engaged range, and you'd have to apply it while they're trying to kill you, I'd be inclined to make it a Hard check, and upgrade at least one of those purple dice to red.

In other words, they're trying to take the fuel from a Flame Projector and apply it without the use of an actual Flame Projector.

Oh, and $DEITY help you if the enemy happens to have a flame projector of their own, so that they can light it while it is still in your hands.

Quicklfash also calls for a mechanics check to even apply.

Keep in mind that's a one time use thing, so every time the player uses it, that's 150 credits out of his pocket. The burning gel is also 1 encumbrance point per application. So even with a bag or utility belt he still only has so many he can keep on his person, less so if he is wearing tough armor or a weapon.

I would go with bradknowles suggestion as well.

Another thing to remember is that that the availability of certain items is what you want it to be. I'm not suggesting have it not be available wherever they go, but the shopkeep might only have a few in stock. If he wants to order in bulk, well it might take time to get that order taken care of and certainly whoever you order it from will want a fee.

Kaosoe, it only says the GM can call for it to be a Mechanics check if the situation would apply for it, not for every single application. However, I had already considered the scenario of "Quickflash Gel? Not something I stock, sir."

bradknowles, I will absolutely upgrade the die, and your upgrade seems reasonable enough.

Thanks guys!

Right, pretty much what it says on the tin guys - One of the players in my campaign has purchased the Corchemco "Quickflash" Burning Gel and as the Core Rulebook states, said player has iterated that it requires no Roll at all for use. However, he wants the option to use it in combat.

I've basically said that it would require a Coordination check, but he then stated it would be an average check as all melee attacks come under that bracket. My argument is that that makes it a little simple to use something so overtly broken against a single enemy.

Any suggestions?

A suggestion? Tell him he's full of @#$%. It requires no check when you're smearing this stuff on a wall that isn't moving, shooting, or fighting back with you. It has to be squeezed onto a surface like caulking. I wouldn't even allow it to be used in a combat scenario at all. To use it you have to apply this line of acid paste and keep the pistol grip in contact with it in order to trigger the effect. Unless someone is incapacitated they aren't going to stand still for that so it's a complete no go as a weapon as far as I'm concerned.

I could see it finding use in a combat situation, but rather as a last resort item - like when Brody in "Jaws" managed to shoot the tank... A desperate last attempt - jam the whole container somewhere, make a makeshift bomb - stuff like that. And of course it would require at least a mechanics skill check, perhaps even a talent - from the Demolitionist tree or the one that allows to cobble things together in McGyver style (don't remember the name now). And if being actively attacked coordination would be the skill to choose, the check upgraded to have a chance of despair (and spilling the stuff).

For regular combat - only as pre-produced burn bombs (again, good option for demolitionist).

Keep in mind that's a one time use thing, so every time the player uses it, that's 150 credits out of his pocket. The burning gel is also 1 encumbrance point per application.

Is that true? I seem to recall the book saying it had five uses.

Seems fairly overpriced for only a single use item.

Keep in mind that's a one time use thing, so every time the player uses it, that's 150 credits out of his pocket. The burning gel is also 1 encumbrance point per application.

Is that true? I seem to recall the book saying it had five uses.

Seems fairly overpriced for only a single use item.

Ah. On second thought, you might be right. I'm AFB myself. If that's true I shall stand corrected.

Well I could imagine, that if you have a mechanic or outlaw tech in your group or the character can find some npc to work for him, the said outlaw tech could construct some kind of containment-system for the gel.

Basicly something that keeps the fluid safe without the danger of accidental self-ignition or something. The whole container (it could be really fancy with a small forcefield to contain the fluid) could be thrown at enemys.

Upon impact the gel would cover a certain area or only the targeted npc. Ignititing the fluid could be done by a blaster shot.

So basicly you have a weapon like a flame-grenade that can not only deal damage to a single foe or a group of foes (if you feel its not too op) but you can also set an area in flames and thus blocking the way for enemys.

The later gives room for interesting combat situations and interactions with the environment.

I think this could be a very fun and creative solution.

The outlaw-tech in your group can have fun assembling and improving the contaimentsystem. (Of course the parts for the device must be bought / found)

If the outlaw tech is spending more time on perfectioning the device a self ignition upon impact could be possible.

So you might end up with two players having fun stuff to care about, or the player who bought the gel in th first place might have reasons to to contact some shady npcs or try to master the disciplin of modifying equipment.

Damage wise I would rule that the quickflash burning gel when used with the improvised device is not as effective compared to its use in a flamprojector.

Using it by hand in a combat situation I would say is pretty dangerous and I probably would point out that the player could try but it the check required would be pretty hard and chances to set your self on fire would be there.

Upon impact the gel would cover a certain area or only the targeted npc. Ignititing the fluid could be done by a blaster shot.

So basicly you have a weapon like a flame-grenade that can not only deal damage to a single foe or a group of foes (if you feel its not too op) but you can also set an area in flames and thus blocking the way for enemys.

So, basically a home-made incendiary grenade that isn't anywhere near as good as the real thing. And probably more expensive, too.

Okay, if that's the way your players want to go, but that wouldn't be my first choice.

Well I could imagine, that if you have a mechanic or outlaw tech in your group or the character can find some npc to work for him, the said outlaw tech could construct some kind of containment-system for the gel.

Basicly something that keeps the fluid safe without the danger of accidental self-ignition or something. The whole container (it could be really fancy with a small forcefield to contain the fluid) could be thrown at enemys.

Upon impact the gel would cover a certain area or only the targeted npc. Ignititing the fluid could be done by a blaster shot.

So basicly you have a weapon like a flame-grenade that can not only deal damage to a single foe or a group of foes (if you feel its not too op) but you can also set an area in flames and thus blocking the way for enemys.

The later gives room for interesting combat situations and interactions with the environment.

I think this could be a very fun and creative solution.

The outlaw-tech in your group can have fun assembling and improving the contaimentsystem. (Of course the parts for the device must be bought / found)

If the outlaw tech is spending more time on perfectioning the device a self ignition upon impact could be possible.

So you might end up with two players having fun stuff to care about, or the player who bought the gel in th first place might have reasons to to contact some shady npcs or try to master the disciplin of modifying equipment.

Damage wise I would rule that the quickflash burning gel when used with the improvised device is not as effective compared to its use in a flamprojector.

Using it by hand in a combat situation I would say is pretty dangerous and I probably would point out that the player could try but it the check required would be pretty hard and chances to set your self on fire would be there.

You seem to have the wrong idea about what this stuff is. It's not gasoline. It's not even really explosive. It's just a gel that creates a chemical reaction to burn through stuff. Watch the first episode of Firefly to get a great example. In fact, I'd wager that the item in EotE is an almost direct pull from Firefly.

Using this in melee combat seems beyond impractical. like trying to shoot somebody with a glue gun. Personally, I'd say it warrants at least two setback dice to try and use it in this fashion. Besides, applying the gel and activating it could reasonably require more than a single action (an action and a maneuver, perhaps). I don't think that self-harm is a huge issue because of the way it's delivered (as opposed to, saw, the vibro-saw, which does have a 'fail and you hurt yourself' mechanic).

But it's probably best used as a booby trap or *gasp* as intended to burn through doors/walls/bulkheads.

Using this in melee combat seems beyond impractical. like trying to shoot somebody with a glue gun. Personally, I'd say it warrants at least two setback dice to try and use it in this fashion. Besides, applying the gel and activating it could reasonably require more than a single action (an action and a maneuver, perhaps). I don't think that self-harm is a huge issue because of the way it's delivered (as opposed to, saw, the vibro-saw, which does have a 'fail and you hurt yourself' mechanic).

But it's probably best used as a booby trap or *gasp* as intended to burn through doors/walls/bulkheads.

This tool as described is a caulking gun imo. To use it in melee would be the equivalent of trying to apply a bead of caulk to a 2x2 piece of drywall someone else is waving around while trying to get out of your way and having to keep the tip of the gun in contact with the bead of caulk during all that to activate it, or in other words, impossible.

This tool as described is a caulking gun imo. To use it in melee would be the equivalent of trying to apply a bead of caulk to a 2x2 piece of drywall someone else is waving around while trying to get out of your way and having to keep the tip of the gun in contact with the bead of caulk during all that to activate it

That is the best description I've seen.

or in other words, impossible.

Of course, with our group, we'd get some whacko who'd actually try to do that, just for laughs.

Well I could imagine, that if you have a mechanic or outlaw tech in your group or the character can find some npc to work for him, the said outlaw tech could construct some kind of containment-system for the gel.

Basicly something that keeps the fluid safe without the danger of accidental self-ignition or something. The whole container (it could be really fancy with a small forcefield to contain the fluid) could be thrown at enemys.

Upon impact the gel would cover a certain area or only the targeted npc. Ignititing the fluid could be done by a blaster shot.

So basicly you have a weapon like a flame-grenade that can not only deal damage to a single foe or a group of foes (if you feel its not too op) but you can also set an area in flames and thus blocking the way for enemys.

The later gives room for interesting combat situations and interactions with the environment.

I think this could be a very fun and creative solution.

The outlaw-tech in your group can have fun assembling and improving the contaimentsystem. (Of course the parts for the device must be bought / found)

If the outlaw tech is spending more time on perfectioning the device a self ignition upon impact could be possible.

So you might end up with two players having fun stuff to care about, or the player who bought the gel in th first place might have reasons to to contact some shady npcs or try to master the disciplin of modifying equipment.

Damage wise I would rule that the quickflash burning gel when used with the improvised device is not as effective compared to its use in a flamprojector.

Using it by hand in a combat situation I would say is pretty dangerous and I probably would point out that the player could try but it the check required would be pretty hard and chances to set your self on fire would be there.

You seem to have the wrong idea about what this stuff is. It's not gasoline. It's not even really explosive. It's just a gel that creates a chemical reaction to burn through stuff. Watch the first episode of Firefly to get a great example. In fact, I'd wager that the item in EotE is an almost direct pull from Firefly.

This is exactly what this thing is and I don't need much of an excuse to watch Firefly...........to all curious jump on Netflix and pull up the episode.

You seem to have the wrong idea about what this stuff is. It's not gasoline. It's not even really explosive. It's just a gel that creates a chemical reaction to burn through stuff. Watch the first episode of Firefly to get a great example. In fact, I'd wager that the item in EotE is an almost direct pull from Firefly.

Oh i'm sorry. I was neither aware of how the gel works, nor that there is an incindiary grenade that fullfills the exact same role. I only own the core rule book.

Best thing to do in these kind of situation is determine how the player character intends to use the stuff in combat. Once that is determined, use the improvised weapon rules (although the appropriate skill could possibly be Ranged (Light) instead of Melee, depending on the "how" as previously determined), increase the difficulty as you see fit, and call it a day.

If he wants to light the whole thing on fire and throw it or whatever, maybe upgrade a difficulty die in the spirit of the rules for "shooting at someone engaged with an ally" and, on the result of a Despair, the PC has now ignited himself.

Fun times.

Using this in melee combat seems beyond impractical. like trying to shoot somebody with a glue gun. Personally, I'd say it warrants at least two setback dice to try and use it in this fashion. Besides, applying the gel and activating it could reasonably require more than a single action (an action and a maneuver, perhaps). I don't think that self-harm is a huge issue because of the way it's delivered (as opposed to, saw, the vibro-saw, which does have a 'fail and you hurt yourself' mechanic).

But it's probably best used as a booby trap or *gasp* as intended to burn through doors/walls/bulkheads.

Even that seems pretty generous. It's definitely a full turn to use. You've got the application (which is a Mechanics check suggesting it's something you need more than a few seconds to do) so I'd say there's a strong case for this to be a full action. And then you've got to activate it. That's some sort of vague starter device which is a manuever probably. Maybe an incidental, but I'd side on manuever myself. Beyond that, Id say 2+ setbacks and a full upgrade to represent the chance of getting it on yourself while squirting it at an NPC.

I think using the gel for damage would be best if you wanted to rig up a remote fuse that might pull a ceiling down on a badguy or maybe drop the floor out from under a minion group. I'd definitely let a PC try that. They might have to sacrifice a comlink for the receiver, but that

I imagine we got damage stats for the gel itself in case a PC botched a roll and burned himself.

Using this in melee combat seems beyond impractical. like trying to shoot somebody with a glue gun. Personally, I'd say it warrants at least two setback dice to try and use it in this fashion. Besides, applying the gel and activating it could reasonably require more than a single action (an action and a maneuver, perhaps). I don't think that self-harm is a huge issue because of the way it's delivered (as opposed to, saw, the vibro-saw, which does have a 'fail and you hurt yourself' mechanic).

But it's probably best used as a booby trap or *gasp* as intended to burn through doors/walls/bulkheads.

Even that seems pretty generous. It's definitely a full turn to use. You've got the application (which is a Mechanics check suggesting it's something you need more than a few seconds to do) so I'd say there's a strong case for this to be a full action. And then you've got to activate it. That's some sort of vague starter device which is a manuever probably. Maybe an incidental, but I'd side on manuever myself. Beyond that, Id say 2+ setbacks and a full upgrade to represent the chance of getting it on yourself while squirting it at an NPC.

I think using the gel for damage would be best if you wanted to rig up a remote fuse that might pull a ceiling down on a badguy or maybe drop the floor out from under a minion group. I'd definitely let a PC try that. They might have to sacrifice a comlink for the receiver, but that

I imagine we got damage stats for the gel itself in case a PC botched a roll and burned himself.

"A few seconds" is a fraction of a turn, though. When combat rounds can last "up to about a minute," there's quite a lot one can (attempt to) do with a tube of gel.

Also, no such thing as "a full turn to use" in this system. You've got actions, maneuvers, and incidentals. A d20 mindset must be purged.

Oh i'm sorry. I was neither aware of how the gel works, nor that there is an incindiary grenade that fullfills the exact same role. I only own the core rule book.

According to the list that I am slowly accumulating at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bx-CJvBGNp9Lib20uEkH_q8z-E2BEM7Q-vy3ripW1ps/edit#gid=0 there is an Inferno grenade that can be found in the Dangerous Covenants book, and there may be other incendiary grenades in other books.

I don't have all the books, either. But I do have the core rule book (CRB) plus all the current official Sourcebook additions. I haven't yet bought any of the adventure books, but it looks like I might have to do that.

I suppose it might be possible to home brew up other ways of applying the gel. Something like the glop grenade (but likely NOT reusable) or even 'paintballs' filled with the stuff for airgun use might be the works of inventive minds.

"A few seconds" is a fraction of a turn, though. When combat rounds can last "up to about a minute," there's quite a lot one can (attempt to) do with a tube of gel.

Also, no such thing as "a full turn to use" in this system. You've got actions, maneuvers, and incidentals. A d20 mindset must be purged.

When I say full turn I mean an action and a manuever. That is a standard turn in this system, let's not get nitpicky about semantics.

Moving on:

When attempting to apply burning gel to an enemy NPC in combat, you do not have a full 60 seconds to stand there and apply it. Sure, combat rounds can last up to a minute, but consider the action a PC is attempting and whether or not it even makes sense in a combat scenario. An NPC doesn't stand still for a full 60 seconds while the PC attempts this type of attack. The most a PC could hope for when attempting such an attack is a few seconds.

And the suggestion of a combat round being about a minute is just a suggestion. The Han/Greedo combat round lasted as long as it took Han to pull the trigger.

When I say full turn I mean an action and a manuever. That is a standard turn in this system, let's not get nitpicky about semantics.

Moving on:

When attempting to apply burning gel to an enemy NPC in combat, you do not have a full 60 seconds to stand there and apply it. Sure, combat rounds can last up to a minute, but consider the action a PC is attempting and whether or not it even makes sense in a combat scenario. An NPC doesn't stand still for a full 60 seconds while the PC attempts this type of attack. The most a PC could hope for when attempting such an attack is a few seconds.

And the suggestion of a combat round being about a minute is just a suggestion. The Han/Greedo combat round lasted as long as it took Han to pull the trigger.

Regarding semantics: When I see d20-esque verbiage in an EotE rules discussion, I infer things. My apologies. I wasn't being nitpicky, but rather pointing out the differences in the rules sets that many of us game in/are used to. You are of course correct, a maneuver to ready an item and an action to use the item is indeed how the standard turn would work.

Regarding combat round length: I did say " up to about a minute," which I believe is what the CRB says as well your example above is definitely one where the entire combat needn't be anything more than one shot fired. Maybe with some social checks leading up to it.

Query: How long is a round of combat? Answer: How long does one need it to be?

Regarding the application of highly flammable gel to a not-quite-as-flammable target who is actively resisting the attempt: surely there is some difficulty one could assign to this task? With a little creativity, the negative part of the dice pool could be set. Perhaps it's an opposed Brawl check, or Athletics/Coordination.

An example:

Using the improvised/inferior weapon rules, the player rolls his Melee/Brawl/whatever check to apply the gel to the opponent, opposed by some purple, red, and black dice.

Success could signify that the PC was fortunate enough to land a goodly amount of the substance on his hapless target. Whether this was due to the target being momentarily immobilized, incapacitated or cornered; or whether it was just a lucky shot or a sucker punch that allowed the application of the gel is up to the dice and the PC's creativity. Lighting the gel on fire would probably have to come at a later juncture.

Advantage of some magnitude might mean that the PC was quick/dexterous enough to light the gel on fire right away, enacting the Burn effect on the target. Or perhaps that could be Triumph's job.

Failure , which is fairly certain for such a difficulty task, would mean that the enemy was able to stay out of the way of the gel and that the PC wasted that application. But if he wants to later set the ground on fire, that could be an option.

Threat could mean that the applicator was used a little too vigorously and now the gel is completely wasted.

Despair would (likely) invariably mean that the PC now has to deal with being on fire in addition to being attacked by his enemy.