Was running the numbers for an orbital bombardment thread and came across this gem of a glitch:

A Cloud Car has a max altitude of 100km

An Airspeeder has a max altitude of 300km

If you are in the US, Space starts at 80.4km.

Low Orbit is considered to be around 160km-2000km.

Soooo I'm thinking they meant to say airspeeder max altitude is 3km...

Probably depends on whether you're on a gas giant or a terrestrial planet? As I'm sure "space" starts further off the surface of Yavin than it does Alderaa...er, Coruscant.

Probably depends on whether you're on a gas giant or a terrestrial planet? As I'm sure "space" starts further off the surface of Yavin than it does Alderaa...er, Coruscant.

Fair enough, though you still end up with the issue of a farmboy's T-16 being able to fly higher then a "high altitude" Cloud Car...

Was running the numbers for an orbital bombardment thread and came across this gem of a glitch:

A Cloud Car has a max altitude of 100km

An Airspeeder has a max altitude of 300km

If you are in the US, Space starts at 80.4km.

Low Orbit is considered to be around 160km-2000km.

Soooo I'm thinking they meant to say airspeeder max altitude is 3km...

Or it's 30km, as you said in the other thread. That would certainly fit with what is believed to be the top end of the altitude range for SR-71 aircraft.

It makes sense to me that cloud cars could go higher, even near low orbit.

Probably depends on whether you're on a gas giant or a terrestrial planet? As I'm sure "space" starts further off the surface of Yavin than it does Alderaa...er, Coruscant.

Good point. The altitude at which "space" starts will vary by the mass/size/density of the planet, the nature of the atmosphere, etc....

Even if the planetary mass and size are virtually the same, if one of them has a very thick atmosphere and one has little or no atmosphere, then those altitudes would change.

So, if you want to be real (or at least more realistic), you'd have to take a lot more factors into consideration. ;-)

Was running the numbers for an orbital bombardment thread and came across this gem of a glitch:

A Cloud Car has a max altitude of 100km

An Airspeeder has a max altitude of 300km

If you are in the US, Space starts at 80.4km.

Low Orbit is considered to be around 160km-2000km.

Soooo I'm thinking they meant to say airspeeder max altitude is 3km...

Or it's 30km, as you said in the other thread. That would certainly fit with what is believed to be the top end of the altitude range for SR-71 aircraft.

It makes sense to me that cloud cars could go higher, even near low orbit.

I thought about it more though and 3km seems better since most airspeeders are presented as small unpressurized aircraft.

There's certainly some exceptions. A LAAT for example probably can operate at 300km up seeing how it's a dropship and shuttle as well as an airspeeder.

Was running the numbers for an orbital bombardment thread and came across this gem of a glitch:

A Cloud Car has a max altitude of 100km

An Airspeeder has a max altitude of 300km

If you are in the US, Space starts at 80.4km.

Low Orbit is considered to be around 160km-2000km.

Soooo I'm thinking they meant to say airspeeder max altitude is 3km...

Or it's 30km, as you said in the other thread. That would certainly fit with what is believed to be the top end of the altitude range for SR-71 aircraft.

It makes sense to me that cloud cars could go higher, even near low orbit.

I thought about it more though and 3km seems better since most airspeeders are presented as small unpressurized aircraft.

There's certainly some exceptions. A LAAT for example probably can operate at 300km up seeing how it's a dropship and shuttle as well as an airspeeder.

3km doesn't work on Coruscant where the planet is one giant city with the buildings being quite a few kilometers off the ground at their peaks. So, an airspeeder would be forced to fly down in the guts of the city only if that were the limit.

I think we should remember that in the PT and TCW, we see open-air airspeeders flying around at heights which probably would be uncomfortably low-oxygen.

I think it's odd that FFG gives specific altitudes for these craft yet don't give distances for their range bands, which would be far more useful.

Was running the numbers for an orbital bombardment thread and came across this gem of a glitch:

A Cloud Car has a max altitude of 100km

An Airspeeder has a max altitude of 300km

If you are in the US, Space starts at 80.4km.

Low Orbit is considered to be around 160km-2000km.

Soooo I'm thinking they meant to say airspeeder max altitude is 3km...

Or it's 30km, as you said in the other thread. That would certainly fit with what is believed to be the top end of the altitude range for SR-71 aircraft.

It makes sense to me that cloud cars could go higher, even near low orbit.

I thought about it more though and 3km seems better since most airspeeders are presented as small unpressurized aircraft.

There's certainly some exceptions. A LAAT for example probably can operate at 300km up seeing how it's a dropship and shuttle as well as an airspeeder.

3km doesn't work on Coruscant where the planet is one giant city with the buildings being quite a few kilometers off the ground at their peaks. So, an airspeeder would be forced to fly down in the guts of the city only if that were the limit.

Not really if you run the numbers. We see a few craft up pretty high, but most seem to be at or below the 3km ceiling. It looks higher at first, but when you compare it to the buildings... not so much.

Just for a frame of reference the current tallest building in the world isn't even 1km tall. With Machu-Pichu just shy of 8km up and Everest only about a km higher.

So something like the Jedi temple is "Over 1km tall" at least according to Wookieepedia, and that would still leave "Under 2km" of space for your airspeeder to fly above that in a nice neat little line. If anything it looks like the number of 3km+ buildings on Corascant is actually not that high, with most being 2km and shorter... Fortunately 2 is still "several" so the travel brochures aren't incorrect.

Furthermore the definition of the altitude type matters. 3km Above Ground Level would work even in Corascant since that would give you "street level" plus 3km, allowing your buildings to be over 4 km high, with 2km being below street level and still have airspeeders cruising well above your rooftop.

Are you confusing the Airspeeder with the Landspeeder?

Core p. 247 : "As ubiquitous as their land-based cousins, air speeders are found on nearly every civilized world in the galaxy. They are, in general, small-to-medium-sized atmospheric craft with aerodynamic hulls propelled by repulsorlift technology. The repulsorlift engines are commonly coupled with powerful ion drives that allow them to reach incredible altitudes and even enter low orbit if necessary."

from Wookieepedia : "Airspeeders were repulsorlift vehicles common throughout the galaxy. They were distinguished from landspeeders by a higher operating altitude and normally higher top speed. Sometimes they were also equipped with boosters that enabled them to achieve low planetary orbit for a short time. They were not designed for orbital flight, though they could attain such high altitude that they pushed the boundaries of atmosphere and space."

I hope that clears up the confusion.

I think it's odd that FFG gives specific altitudes for these craft yet don't give distances for their range bands, which would be far more useful.

Also, Core p. 238 - 239 covers Planetary Scale on the ground (in atmosphere) and in space with approximate distances. If you are chasing another ship in close range, you can switch to the standard range bands to be more precise.

Are you confusing the Airspeeder with the Landspeeder?

Core p. 247 : "As ubiquitous as their land-based cousins, air speeders are found on nearly every civilized world in the galaxy. They are, in general, small-to-medium-sized atmospheric craft with aerodynamic hulls propelled by repulsorlift technology. The repulsorlift engines are commonly coupled with powerful ion drives that allow them to reach incredible altitudes and even enter low orbit if necessary."

from Wookieepedia : "Airspeeders were repulsorlift vehicles common throughout the galaxy. They were distinguished from landspeeders by a higher operating altitude and normally higher top speed. Sometimes they were also equipped with boosters that enabled them to achieve low planetary orbit for a short time. They were not designed for orbital flight, though they could attain such high altitude that they pushed the boundaries of atmosphere and space."

I hope that clears up the confusion.

A bit, but not entirely.

I have no doubt that SOME airspeeders can go that high (like the LAAT) but when I see an airspeeder like Anakin steals in EP II flying to the upper limits of the atmo is... unwise.

Similarly they make this point of classifying a Cloud Car as a unique classification of airspeeder intended for high altitude use, and then have it's limit be lower then an airspeeder... which doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense.

I guess the idea is GMs are supposed to make a reasonable call about the specific type of airspeeder. An open top hot rod would have a low altitude limit, but something like an Orbitblade or K-222 is intended to go higher.

The limit on the Cloud Cars is still goofy though. If anything I'd expect those to be low orbit capable...

The limit on the Cloud Cars is still goofy though. If anything I'd expect those to be low orbit capable...

Different authors? Typo?

I read it several times and thought it said 300M not 300KM. I am away from my book though.

I'm looking at it now, it says 300km.

I think the numbers presented are okay for an Airspeeder, which I believe is pressurised, and shouldn't be game breaking. 300km will get you to around the altitude of an orbiting space station but not really any further, close enough for Space Opera. I'd add difficulty to the roll though because it's near it's maximum range.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Earth%27s_atmosphere.svg

I think the numbers presented are okay for an Airspeeder, which I believe is pressurised, and shouldn't be game breaking.

Well, it really depends on the airspeeder. I wish there was a differentiation between closed-top and open ones since open luxury airspeeders clearly can't exit the atmo without their passengers taking precautions, i.e. space suits.

I think the numbers presented are okay for an Airspeeder, which I believe is pressurised, and shouldn't be game breaking.

Well, it really depends on the airspeeder. I wish there was a differentiation between closed-top and open ones since open luxury airspeeders clearly can't exit the atmo without their passengers taking precautions, i.e. space suits.

Well, if you're playing with people that think they can fly into near vacuum without some protection just because the vehicle can you've got bigger problems at your game table...

Normally the cutoff between being able to breath the air and requiring oxygen is around 10,000 ft above sea level give or take a 1,000 feet or so based on individual tolerance. Anything above 50k ft above sea level requires a pressure suit.

So, while altitudes would vary based on the planet, the big sciency detail would be pressure level which I'm not learned enough to calculate and too lazy to do the research.

My point was that in a game where speed and distance are in otherwise given in abstract range bands, it's weird to list altitude in exact measurements. Especially since none of those altitudes can be justified by canon.

Normally the cutoff between being able to breath the air and requiring oxygen is around 10,000 ft above sea level give or take a 1,000 feet or so based on individual tolerance.

I used to skydive from 15,000 ft. I think we went a bit higher on occasion, 17k or so. In skydiving, altitude is safety.

I think the numbers presented are okay for an Airspeeder, which I believe is pressurised, and shouldn't be game breaking.

Well, it really depends on the airspeeder. I wish there was a differentiation between closed-top and open ones since open luxury airspeeders clearly can't exit the atmo without their passengers taking precautions, i.e. space suits.

Well, if you're playing with people that think they can fly into near vacuum without some protection just because the vehicle can you've got bigger problems at your game table...

That that's a problem is not a Givin!

Normally the cutoff between being able to breath the air and requiring oxygen is around 10,000 ft above sea level give or take a 1,000 feet or so based on individual tolerance.

I used to skydive from 15,000 ft. I think we went a bit higher on occasion, 17k or so. In skydiving, altitude is safety.

My appologies. I should clarify. The symptoms of hypoxia can start setting in above 10k ft. When your skydiving your only at those altitudes for a short amount of time so there's very little chance of hypoxia setting in. Driving around in an unpressurized air car could get dangerous at those altitudes.

Altitude, whatever! #YOLO

[crashes airspeeder]

My appologies. I should clarify. The symptoms of hypoxia can start setting in above 10k ft. When your skydiving your only at those altitudes for a short amount of time so there's very little chance of hypoxia setting in. Driving around in an unpressurized air car could get dangerous at those altitudes.

Every planet in the galaxy will have a different altitude where it's safe to breath. That's another reason it's pretty pointless to list altitude for these vehicles. For example, we have no way of knowing how high up the Bespin cloud city is above the ground or even if Bespin has a ground at all. You can't even measure altitude in a situation like that.