I Just had a practice game with someone on vassal and my opponent ran Echo, Bounty Hunter and a Tie Defender against my squad made up of Etahn, Blount and Dagger with HLC. Long story short, I got smashed, mostly thanks to Echo and her 4/5 attack and insane positioning skills. I only managed to land 1 hit on her and thats only cuz of Blount auto-hitting with the Ion Pulse Missile. The rest of the game after that was her dancing around me as I attempt to work through her wingmates but it was to no avail.

After having experienced that I wonder if the Rebels will get the short end of the stick come Imdaar Alpha finals. What do you guys think? Apart from the Falcon do you think the Rebels have anything else that can match the Phantom & Defender threat?

If you hit Echo with your Ion Pulse Missiles you should have a major advantage... Either you've removed 40% of his list for a turn, in which case you can pewpew him, or you've locked down exactly where Echo is going to be, in which case you can line up some good R1 shots to finish him off, even if he cloaks again.

In general, I would think the rebels have the advantage as the E wing and Z 95 fly relatively the same to the X, Y and A wings, so it shouldn't be difficult to control them... Whereas the Defender and Phantom have entirely different way to handle them.

In general, I would think the rebels have the advantage as the E wing and Z 95 fly relatively the same to the X, Y and A wings, so it shouldn't be difficult to control them... Whereas the Defender and Phantom have entirely different way to handle them.

I agree. I think the Empire's diversity of lists they can field with the requirement of their two expensive ships is very limiting. I've thought of SEVERAL Rebel builds, but only one Imperial build I would actually fly at the tournament.

Drop the dagger and get some gold squad ions rocking with Blount and corran? No clue on points but since you throw they have to use a defender and phantom you can game plan significantly

You just need PS higher than echo so you can react. Corran with initiative or VI (assuming echo has VI) should do with R7T1 on him. Echo will position, Corran can react with barrel roll or if he's targeted by echo a boost. Release the 'Craken' to give Corran another free action (either a move or focus depending on what is needed) followed by TWO attacks. First attack, Echo has two HD so maybe APT or PT on that attack and second will be against 4 HD but probably no tokens left on echo. You could easily kill him/her in that one round given decent rolling.

I'm thinking loaded up Corran, Craken and ORS for some tankiness and a 360 firing arc. I'm thinking this because you can almost count on your opponent using a loaded up Echo.

I'm actually considering trying out a build with two autoblasters to deal with the stealth ships. I don't care how many extra evade dice you get when you can't USE them.

I don't like the original list. We have seen what the Phantom can do, so telling me that your fighters couldn't get a bead on him is no surprise. If you're only going to run two 3 dice attacks you should have a named YT-1300.

I disagree, Rebels have more list variety and can easily field a Falcon with those 2 ships or a regular 4 ship rebel list. I think more Rebel lists will pull out the win for this reason. It will be much easier to create a "bad" imperial list with the limited points left for support ships. I don't think I would have ever fielded just 1 Phantom and 1 Defender in the same list if I didn't have to.

Derp - just realized what I said. You need to make it so you maneuver last, after echo. So high PS (8 or higher) and either concede initiative if at 8 or just make sure your PS is 9+.

Oh, I don't know as imperials.. You could have, say Whisper, miss a 5 dice shot and then subsequently fail a 5 dice dodge from a two hit ion shot.

Then, hypothetically speaking of course, she could be unable to decloak and run herself into a rock using her last shield to avoid a crit.

It's possible after that she might lose a hull to another shot from Mr. Vander's ion turret, and then she might just catch an ion pulse missile from Mr. Blount, who doesn't even need to roll dice for the attack.

Just sayin', it could happen.....

Honestly, you'd be a fool not to run a YT with Gunner if you know your opponent is fielding two 3+ agility ships.

42 Chewbacca

5 Gunner

35 Corran Horn

3 Marksmanship

2 Fire-Control System

12 Bandit Squadron Pilot

Add VI where appropriate, or leave it out for an initiative bid.

short answer: yes.

In general, I would think the rebels have the advantage as the E wing and Z 95 fly relatively the same to the X, Y and A wings, so it shouldn't be difficult to control them... Whereas the Defender and Phantom have entirely different way to handle them.

I think this will work both ways. The new Imperial toys will be a novelty for the Imperial player to use, but also for the Rebel player to fight against. In this sense, the final round will potential boil down to who can adapt to these new fighters the quickest.

In general, I would think the rebels have the advantage as the E wing and Z 95 fly relatively the same to the X, Y and A wings, so it shouldn't be difficult to control them... Whereas the Defender and Phantom have entirely different way to handle them.

I think this will work both ways. The new Imperial toys will be a novelty for the Imperial player to use, but also for the Rebel player to fight against. In this sense, the final round will potential boil down to who can adapt to these new fighters the quickest.

Or those who have been playing with them on Vassal already...

Honestly, you'd be a fool not to run a YT with Gunner if you know your opponent is fielding two 3+ agility ships.

42 Chewbacca

5 Gunner

35 Corran Horn

3 Marksmanship

2 Fire-Control System

12 Bandit Squadron Pilot

Add VI where appropriate, or leave it out for an initiative bid.

This exact.

Was thinking:

Corran

Marksmanship, FCS and APT for a devastating strike on somebody in range 1

Blount

Deadeye, Ion Pulse Missiles

ORS

Gunner

99 pts for initiative which you want to gain then turn down so Corran can move after Echo.

After having experienced that I wonder if the Rebels will get the short end of the stick come Imdaar Alpha finals. What do you guys think? Apart from the Falcon do you think the Rebels have anything else that can match the Phantom & Defender threat?

I hope not. My current plan is to use the following if I make it to top 2:

Whisper w/ Recon Spec., Sensor Jammer, Vet. Instincts & Advanced Cloak - 44

Delta sqd - 30

Royal Guard w/ PtL - 25

I'd be awfully disappointed if a Rebel list beat that

If you hit Echo with your Ion Pulse Missiles you should have a major advantage... Either you've removed 40% of his list for a turn, in which case you can pewpew him, or you've locked down exactly where Echo is going to be, in which case you can line up some good R1 shots to finish him off, even if he cloaks again.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to follow up with that IPM shot. I just wasn't in a good position to exploit that without exposing my flanks to R1 shots from the rest of his squad and even if I tried I couldn't turn my heavy hitters hard enough to face Echo.

In retrospect the list that I ran just wasn't built well to take on the Phantom. I agree that a named YT would've been a much better choice for the job but it was an impromptu list and I did not have much time to consider my choice of ships. I do appreciate the first hand experience though and I'll make sure to Phantom-proof my squads in the future now that I know what its capable of.

If you assume your opponent is going to win the PS bid, is there a different list than a named and loaded Phantom you'd take? Even the base Defender and Phantom are 55 pts combined. So I'm not convinced.

If you know they're going to be shooting at you uncloaked though I like the idea of Echo with PTL and a Stygium Particle Accelerator, it can give you a similar effect to Advanced Sensors with a free Evade + PTL out of the gate when decloaking (if you do a green you still get a normal action though). When you don't think you'll have a shot you Decloak + Evade + PTL a Focus + Green Move + Cloak to turtle.

On top of that you either take Fel + PTL with a Delta + Cannon if you like Fel's chances vs possible PS10s and then either a TC on Fel or an Intelligence Agent on Echo. Or you can rock a Delta + Alpha and Dark Curse, or some other combination of named Ties (Dark Curse, Night Beast + Ion on the Delta maybe?) keeping Intelligence Agent on Echo still.

This is all assuming you'll be up against a PS10 Cracken + Horn + Janson combo.

If anything I would think the Rebels have the advantage. There will be much more room in squad points to squeeze in ships they are more familiar with.

Honestly, you'd be a fool not to run a YT with Gunner if you know your opponent is fielding two 3+ agility ships.

42 Chewbacca

5 Gunner

35 Corran Horn

3 Marksmanship

2 Fire-Control System

12 Bandit Squadron Pilot

Add VI where appropriate, or leave it out for an initiative bid.

Alternately, demote Corran to Knave + R2-D2 + FCS. That saves you 7 points, which you can use to promote the Bandit to Blount + Ion Pulse; alternately, make Chewie + Gunner into the extraordinarily reliable Han + Marksmanship + Gunner.

The Empire always has the edge, and the Rebels have the other edge of the table.

The real question isn't who has the edge I think it probably would be Rebels in a no holds barred list tailoring scenario they have a higher flexibility and the ultimate counter to maneuverability the Falcon, but rather do both players feel comfortable enough to just try the new toys out or do they care more about winning, if that was the case there is no reason for the rebels to run anything but a HSF build that I think will be very hard to beat with a Phantom, defender and something else

Honestly, you'd be a fool not to run a YT with Gunner if you know your opponent is fielding two 3+ agility ships.

42 Chewbacca

5 Gunner

35 Corran Horn

3 Marksmanship

2 Fire-Control System

12 Bandit Squadron Pilot

Add VI where appropriate, or leave it out for an initiative bid.

And if you are paranoid of PS9 Whisper with Advanced Cloaking Device, then this is a hard counter:

Han Solo + Veteran Instincts + Luke Skywalker + C3-P0 + Engine Upgrade (61)

Knave Squadron Pilot (27)

Bandit Squadron Pilot (12)

The rebels should have the advantage, IF they get a turret. The PS bid isn't needed, but would hard counter a high PS Phantom with Advanced Cloaking.

Wow. That Chewie Gunner list is mean...