I think destiny will be the replacement for Duty and Obligation... how it works I am sure will be different and interesting.

I wonder what characters they'll choose to create for the Beginner Box Set of this?

Also if they go full Force User will we see something like an Alien Force User, the Quixotic, the Failed and Young Jedi?

I'd like to see a book on the Tapani Sector updated to FFG rules since that has Lightfoil's.

I'm a few pages late, but I'm really expecting a brown book like the Jedi affiliated cards from the LCG.

I didn't think of that leathery brown, but I like it.

F&D won't be black.

They're saving black (with yellow titles) for the cross-line, generic 'Star Wars Roleplaying' sourcebooks. They'll match the new dice packs. You heard it here first!

[EDIT: hopefully when that time comes, they'll consolidate the boards, with a General board and a sub-forum for each game.]

I'm betting on blue for F&D.

F&D won't be black.

They're saving black (with yellow titles) for the cross-line, generic 'Star Wars Roleplaying' sourcebooks. They'll match the new dice packs. You heard it here first!

[EDIT: hopefully when that time comes, they'll consolidate the boards, with a General board and a sub-forum for each game.]

I'm betting on blue for F&D.

Now THAT is an interesting theory....

I have a feeling FaD will be green.

I also like the idea of "Destiny" being the new Obligation/Duty.

Sounds right.

This short tidbit (from the EotE Beta announcement) seems loaded with hints:

Finally, in Star Wars: Force and Destiny, the players become figures of legend; the last surviving Force users in the galaxy. Hunted by the Empire, they must stay alive, and more importantly, stay true to the ideals of their forebearers—the fabled Jedi.

To me, the last line suggests we won't see actual "Jedi", rather we'll see those who consider the Jedi to be their ancestors or forefathers.

The plural usage of "players" also seems to suggest that all the players in a FaD game could be Force users. To me, that suggests a book loaded with Force user Careers and Specializations (and not a book with just a few, plus a bunch of re-printed other Careers).

In fact, the "Mission" of this game (when thought about as a stand-alone RPG experience) may be Escape and Evade the Empire's ongoing eradication of Force users. Not sure what exactly that means, fully.

EotE = PCs fly around in a communal light freighter and make money

AoR = PCs join the Rebellion and fight the Empire

FaD = PCs try not to get killed by the Inquisition or Vader

(I assume the PCs will still need a ship, and pilots, and blasters, etc, in FaD...to run away?)

Unclear as to what the PCs should be doing in a FaD game while the run away. Doing good? Helping others? Re-establishing a Jedi order? Fulfilling their destinies?

It will be interesting to see how FFG handles this. I can't wait to hear about it!

Unclear as to what the PCs should be doing in a FaD game while the run away. Doing good? Helping others? Re-establishing a Jedi order? Fulfilling their destinies?

It will be interesting to see how FFG handles this. I can't wait to hear about it!

Yes, it seems pretty clear what EoE and AoR intend the PCs to be doing (early career Han Solo stuff and GCW respectively).

Nobody is entirely sure what F&D will actually be about, or what they will be doing.

I have to admit, I'm only interested in the rules though really. The players are psyched for their Force-users and happy with my plan for where our games are going.

It will break down to a four-way Galactic Civil War between the Empire (powerful but wounded and torn apart by its own internal wars), the Alliance (20 years after Alderaan, now a full-on military force capable of taking on the Empire in a direct fight, though it still benefits them to choose their time and location to attack), the Fringe (now 'united' under Black Sun, powerful, widespread but unstable) and the Jedi/Sith faction (newly returned from exterminating the Vong and allied with the old Seperatists, looking to reclaim the cloning facilities from the Empire).

The EoE group are now serving Black Sun, for better or worse (opinions vary on that!). The AoR group are a straight-up Alliance special forces team.

The F&D group will be among the students of Lucas Lars, working subtly to bring the GCW to an end and making deals with the other factions to stabilise the galaxy, and maybe the Force itself.

Which might not actually be a million miles from what FFG intends us to be.

So what are other people's Force-using groups going to be about? Jedi-in-hiding? The last students of other Force traditions like the Sisters of Damothir? Random people banding together because they've manifested their powers and being hunted by the Empire? It feels like this could go so many ways...

With the Force and Destiny beta I will continue work on my homebrew superhero game, as well as my mass effect and "fissures" conversion.

Provided the toddler in my life gives me free time.

I wonder what FFG will deem "true" about the eradication of the Jedi order.

By the time of this game, it has been 20 years since the bulk of the Jedi were killed in Order 66. Then followed the "hot pursuit" period, wherein Darth Vader himself tracked down most of the others (along with help from the Inquisition, etc).

So it has been two decades with no Jedi. To fit with the movies, high ranking Jedi-in-hiding should exist, but be very rare.

If any younglings escaped the Jedi Temple back in the day (or padawans), they'd be adults now, and they'd have had much more time not under the tutelage of "Jedi" than under it.

More likely is the following case (perhaps): force sensitive beings are still being born at the same rate as when the Jedi were around. The Jedi aren't here to run their screening programs and recruit those beings into their group. Thus, natural born force sensitives are left to their own devices. The good ones will drift to whatever remaining stories and lore they can find about the fabled Jedi. The bad ones would drift to Sith-inspired teaching. Or, the bad ones would simply use their powers for evil and become tainted by the dark side...corrupted not necessarily the teachings of the Sith, but rather by the nature of the dark side.

They would be a disorganized and scattered group of beings, linked only by their unusually high Midichlorian blood test results (hee hee...I just had to throw that in there. Sorry).

To put a darker spin on it, the Empire likely routinely scans for force sensitives too; and has nefarious purposes in mind when they are found. I'd guess a branch of the Inquisition is responsible for this ongoing activity.

I would imagine Jedi will do what everyone else has to do, get a job...

I don't see playing a former Padawan or Jedi means you have to physically hide yourself under a bush on a primal world. It just means you have to be ginger about use of the force and the glowing death rod. F&D characters could choose to be part of the Rebellion, fighting the Empire while simultaneously hiding their true self from the Alliance. Think about it, in the Alliance you have a whole insurgent group that is also actively hiding from the Empire, provides a good avenue.

I could see a character being a Bounty Hunter with their skills. There is no universal constant that says Jedi can't pick up guns. You also don't have to be a dastardly fiend to be a Bounty Hunter. There are really really bad people in the galaxy I'm sure that deserve to be brought in.

You could play one as the Robin Hood type, rob from the Empire and give to the needy....... minus a small stipend for expenses and such....

You could use Archaeologist as your cover to explain why you seem to be frequenting ancient Force sites and skulking about museums and universities with questions...

You could just take it over the top and go four color and be a group of Jedi who have been lying in wait and with Alderaan, the death of Obi Wan, DS1's destruction, all these events have sent ripples through the Force, and you and your allies can sense that a congruence of 'Destiny' has occurred and the moment has drawn nigh, time to come forth and fight back.........

Well based on the Legends not every force sensitive born became a Jedi. A lot actually washed out of the 'Jedi' program and were reassigned to other branches the Jedi had set up for such an eventuality. Now these played to the force sensitives most common strengths like healing and manipulation. They were the ones that were really victims of a massacre as the Jedi at least had lightsabers to defend themselves. A vast majority of these sensitives were either killed, tortured then killed, or corrupted and put back in their system or moved to the Inquisition. Now there were those who were well outside of the Empire's range when this happened and those may have escaped annihilation during the purges. So you have those who are wash-outs as far as becoming Jedi but maybe not. Maybe this was just the 'push' to let them move out of the shadow of the Jedi.

" Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship."

Maybe those who washed out may not of grasp this until the time came. Anyway that just observations I think you guys are right they kept scanning for more sensitives but probably only just humans as per the New Order.

Also another thing to consider is that the Jedi Order was not a unified front that is presented in the movies. Based on the EU you had certain members who were exceptions to the rules the Order had. Such as the Halycon/Horn bloodline where Corran's grandfather and father both though considered part of the Jedi had wives and children. Ki-Adi-Mundi had like six wives and quite a few children (though I doubt they were exempt from the purges) and those who used their influence and money to prevent the Jedi from taking their Force-sensitive children.

So the options for those to embrace the Jedi heritage is great indeed as well as a Sith line as the Sith were always setting up monuments to themselves that contained tricks and secrets to lure unsuspecting sensitives into the quick and easy path of the dark side.

Tython would be the place I would send them to explore as there was so much just in the underground caverns of that planet there is no way the Empire could of wiped it all out. One of the benefits of Coruscant was the fact that it constantly built upon itself so who is to say that the Jedi Temple that was attacked during the Jedi/Sith Cold War was not built on top of itself. Perhaps an archive of all the Jedi teachings up to say 2000 years before Episode one exists and much like technology has leaped forward what once was a massive computer system of records could be downloaded onto a modern datapad. Meaning you could easily have an entire game go on in and around Coruscant if you wanted. Maybe if I have time I will develop some homebrew adventures using all the systems. Since I can't find many people in my area anymore that want to play RPGs.

It's in my humble opinion that anyone curious in running a Jedi-heavy game could do worse than check out the The Jedi Path it's insightful and is full of ideas for jedi-related adventures, plot hooks, and MacGuffins. I've only read it once, but I don't recall there being much in there that more traditional star wars fans would dislike.

From the Jedi-in-Hiding [Nemesis] entry in AoR:

The Jedi Order did not survive the birth of the Galactic Empire...in truth fewer than one hundred of the thousands of Jedi survived. The majority of those who did were hunted and killed shortly thereafter by Darth Vader and the Imperial forces under his command. The Alliance would desperately like to believe that there are Jedi in hiding who escaped the purge and might join the Rebels in their struggle. Unfortunately, little evidence has been found to support this theory other than a few former Padawans who have joined their ranks.

I would think that FaD would "live in this same space". That could strongly suggest we'll not see the term "Jedi" bandied about in the Careers and Specialties area of the book. We'll see force users of a variety of types, but the Jedi are basically gone.

Again, my argument is one of FFG internal continuity only. I don't envision them invalidating this entry from AoR and this FaD preview snippet quote (from the EotE announcement):

Finally, in Star Wars: Force and Destiny, the players become figures of legend; the last surviving Force users in the galaxy. Hunted by the Empire, they must stay alive, and more importantly, stay true to the ideals of their forebearers—the fabled Jedi.

by making a new book dedicated fully to what they already said is no longer around: the Jedi Order.

Long story short: I think the evidence points to the loaded word "Jedi" being rare in the FaD book.

It's in my humble opinion that anyone curious in running a Jedi-heavy game could do worse than check out the The Jedi Path it's insightful and is full of ideas for jedi-related adventures, plot hooks, and MacGuffins. I've only read it once, but I don't recall there being much in there that more traditional star wars fans would dislike.

I'll second this.

I've found that book to be quite useful just from the perspective of playing a Jedi character, even having an NJO-era Young Jedi that was given a copy (sans the sidenotes and with a few minor modifications) by Master Skywalker as a means of helping to provide some means of direction to apprentices that had lost or simply lost contact with their masters during the Vong war. Ended up carrying it to the Legacy Era, where my PC loaned it to another PC that was trying to come to grips with her nascent Force abilities.

Long story short: I think the evidence points to the loaded word "Jedi" being rare in the FaD book.

Just to play Palpatine's advocate...I'm not convinced.

The PCs in the Star Wars roleplaying game are supposed to be special. Yeah, there's less than 100 Jedi in hiding. But the Chiss are also exceptionally rare in the galaxy, and yet they have a species entry in EotE.

Why couldn't one or more of your PCs, a handful of the few real heroes in a big galaxy, be counted among those 100 Jedi?

This isn't SWTOR or Galaxies , after all. This is a gaming universe centered around the action at your table alone. That should count for something.

One idea I was thinking about was the legend of The Sentinel a suspected Jedi who survived the purge and began what is thought to be a one man crusade to keep force sensitive children out of the hands of the Empire.

Every time one such figure is found out, subsequently killed or captured and killed they always claim someone else sent them yet every Sentinel they locate turns out to be NOT force sensitive but still the legend persists much to the ire of the Inquisitors and ISB Operatives...

The truth about the above would be a campaign in itself maybe resulting in a PC becoming that legendary figure... what do you think... would that be a good subplot?

Flavor text in the book won't matter in the end.

Just accept the future....

Long story short: I think the evidence points to the loaded word "Jedi" being rare in the FaD book.

Just to play Palpatine's advocate...I'm not convinced.

The PCs in the Star Wars roleplaying game are supposed to be special. Yeah, there's less than 100 Jedi in hiding. But the Chiss are also exceptionally rare in the galaxy, and yet they have a species entry in EotE.

Why couldn't one or more of your PCs, a handful of the few real heroes in a big galaxy, be counted among those 100 Jedi?

This isn't SWTOR or Galaxies , after all. This is a gaming universe centered around the action at your table alone. That should count for something.

You are right, of course. The PCs might be able to make full-fledged "Jedi" in FaD. Your rarity argument is also true: the PCs, as the heroes, are exceptions to any such rules.

Regardless of the naming conventions used for the Careers/Specialties, I would assume the best force users in the three-part complete SW RPG game would come from FaD-made characters. Now, whether those Careers would be labeled as Jedi or something more generic is an interesting question.

I suppose one could "split the difference". Perhaps one of the new Careers/Specialties will be literally called "Jedi", while others are more generic force users, not tied specifically to the ancient Order that Vader helped wipe out.

A bit more (somewhat) convoluted logic:

If a character were to be an actual Jedi knight, they'd likely not be a great candidate for a starting PC, would they? They would be old, for one thing. Probably around 40 or so (like me). They'd also be very skilled...too skilled for a starting PC, I'd wager. They'd also have been "out of a job", so to speak, for 20 years.

Another option would be a youngling or Padawan that escaped the purge. They could call themselves Jedi, but they would not have benefited from actual Jedi training.They'd still be between 20-something to 30-something years old. And not necessarily very skilled. a decent PC.

In another option, perhaps the character is just attuned to the force as much as a neophyte Jedi would've been, back in the day. They may even have some kind of distant connection (lineage, etc) to a real Jedi from that time period, but they, themselves, are not (strictly speaking) Jedi. This sort of character could be younger and less skilled. A better starting PC, in other words.This option also fits most closely with the FaD teaser claiming these PCs will be descendants* of the fabled Jedi.

*I would assume this usage of the term includes both actual blood relatives and those who, simply acting to use their powers for the greater good, follow in the spirit and tradition of the Jedi Order.

I love engaging in this sort of speculation!

One idea I was thinking about was the legend of The Sentinel a suspected Jedi who survived the purge and began what is thought to be a one man crusade to keep force sensitive children out of the hands of the Empire.

Every time one such figure is found out, subsequently killed or captured and killed they always claim someone else sent them yet every Sentinel they locate turns out to be NOT force sensitive but still the legend persists much to the ire of the Inquisitors and ISB Operatives...

The truth about the above would be a campaign in itself maybe resulting in a PC becoming that legendary figure... what do you think... would that be a good subplot?

"I am not the Sentinel," he said. "My name is Ryan. I inherited the title from the previous Sentinel, just as you will inherit it from me. The man I inherited it from is not the real Sentinel either. His name was Cummerbund. The real Sentinel is retired and living like a god-protector on the forest moon of Endor."

Flavor text in the book won't matter in the end.

Just accept the future....

On one hand, that would be fine with me, too. I love Jedi!

However, as many have pointed out, Jedi can easily unbalance* an otherwise wonderful RPG. And I don't think that's what FFG will do. Thus we have to speculate as to how everything we've seen thus far can jive with balance and style requirements FFG has set in place.

*I have watched a Jedi unbalance our WEG party. I have been the Jedi unbalancing our Saga Edition party. It's easy to do.

If a character were to be an actual Jedi knight, they'd likely not be a great candidate for a starting PC, would they? They would be old, for one thing. Probably around 40 or so (like me). They'd also be very skilled...too skilled for a starting PC, I'd wager. They'd also have been "out of a job", so to speak, for 20 years.

Another option would be a youngling or Padawan that escaped the purge. They could call themselves Jedi, but they would not have benefited from actual Jedi training.They'd still be between 20-something to 30-something years old. And not necessarily very skilled. a decent PC.

In another option, perhaps the character is just attuned to the force as much as a neophyte Jedi would've been, back in the day. They may even have some kind of distant connection (lineage, etc) to a real Jedi from that time period, but they, themselves, are not (strictly speaking) Jedi. This sort of character could be younger and less skilled. A better starting PC, in other words.This option also fits most closely with the FaD teaser claiming these PCs will be descendants* of the fabled Jedi.

*I would assume this usage of the term includes both actual blood relatives and those who, simply acting to use their powers for the greater good, follow in the spirit and tradition of the Jedi Order.

I love engaging in this sort of speculation!

Totally. And I think there might be room for all those starting character concepts and more in FaD. Not necessarily a Jedi Knight on the level of the legendary Obi-Wan Kenobi, but perhaps an older Jedi Knight who is long past his prime? If I were betting, I would wager that there's some way to easily work that backstory into a starting character in the FaD rules. Not that there will necessarily be "Jedi Career" with "Guardian/Sentinel/Consular," or "Padawan/Knight/Master," or even "Weapons Master/Watchman/Shadow" specializations. But in the backstory, there really has to be some way to work in a "Jedi exile" motif.

The neophyte Padawan/failed Jedi is much easier to explain, of course.

Flavor text in the book won't matter in the end.

Just accept the future....

On one hand, that would be fine with me, too. I love Jedi!

However, as many have pointed out, Jedi can easily unbalance* an otherwise wonderful RPG. And I don't think that's what FFG will do. Thus we have to speculate as to how everything we've seen thus far can jive with balance and style requirements FFG has set in place.

*I have watched a Jedi unbalance our WEG party. I have been the Jedi unbalancing our Saga Edition party. It's easy to do.

Popularity will trump sanity I'm afraid. There's going to be tons of people launching Jedi campaigns the day this thing drops. Which as a Beta is probably a good thing.

FFG does seem to have system though as there haven't been lots of "OMG this Spec is so OP" threads. So we've got hope. If anything I expect to see a lot of "OMG my Jedi can't shoot fireballs out of his eyes and lightening bolts out of his bum, this game sucks!"

If they made the jedi and other force using specializations as specializations that anyone can take as a in-career specialization then there will be little need for sentinel, counselor, or guardian career since they would inherit the base skills from their career and then gain the new skills for the force specialization.

I could see padawan, knight and master as a base being purely as functions of how many force points since these levels were listed in the beta, but I expect that a true knight and master will have their own specialization too.

If they made the jedi and other force using specializations as specializations that anyone can take as a in-career specialization then there will be little need for sentinel, counselor, or guardian career since they would inherit the base skills from their career and then gain the new skills for the force specialization.

I could see padawan, knight and master as a base being purely as functions of how many force points since these levels were listed in the beta, but I expect that a true knight and master will have their own specialization too.

Thing is, that sort of idea is a complete departure from everything FFG currently has going on in this RPG. Every specialization is accessible from the get-go, and the cost is basically the same across the board. Having a "Padawan," "Knight," and "Master"-type progression of specialization in this game is, IMO, extremely unlikely.