man, now i can't tell which i'm more excited for: the F&D beta or its forums?

I'm outta here as soon as it's Gen Con time. Until then I'll enjoy some mild rules speculation and Force chatter. If it's one thing a couple decades of Star Wars gaming has taught me is that people lose their **** once the glowbats fire up.

How does everyone think the Force dice usage will change in F&D? Largely the same, or greatly expanded?

Honestly, for me the Force dice mechanic always seemed rather inscrutable, not to mention inadequate for trained Force users. For Exiles and Emergents it's fine, since they don't necessarily have the right training, but I feel like an actual Jedi ought to be able to call on the Force more reliably than has been demonstrated so far.

It'll probably also be tied into Discipline, given how much the Discipline skill is said to be tied into the Force.

I expect the Force Die mechanic will not change, but I wouldn't be surprised if any new Force Sensitive careers would have acquire additional force ratings at a quicker pace than their AoR and EotE counterparts..

Also "calling on the force" in this game isn't a good way to say it. Uncanny Senses, Overwhelm Emotions, Insight and the other Force talents are all examples of players "calling on the force" and they work every time (much like Colt .45). Whether or not you roll well on the related roll is another question, but the talent itself never fails to activate unless you choose not to.

I had initially hoped that for an Exile in EotE, Emergent would offer a "next step" so to speak instead of a parallel one, as far as Force dice are concerned. It's fine as presented, but didn't really present itself the way I thought it would for players who are trying to embrace this whole multiple game compatibility thing. I doubt the FS at my table is going to dive all the way to the bottom of the Emergent Tree just to grab another white die. I might be mistaken, though.

Alfred as a protocol droid?

"I'm sorry master Bruce, I'm fluent in 6 million forms of communication and I still can't understand what you are saying."

"I'm Mynock-Man!"

I HAVE to make that character now!

Obligation: I'm Mynockman .

Motivation: I'm Mynockman .

Beeline Brawl 5 and the Utility Belt talent.

Earthy brown or a dark green. Maybe a deep blue. (Then we get the ultra American red white and blue between the cores!)

Wouldn't that make it more like the French flag?

Alfred as a protocol droid?

"I'm sorry master Bruce, I'm fluent in 6 million forms of communication and I still can't understand what you are saying."

"I'm Mynock-Man!"

I HAVE to make that character now!

Obligation: I'm Mynockman .

Motivation: I'm Mynockman .

Beeline Brawl 5 and the Utility Belt talent.

Would he be a Chadra-Fan?

I had initially hoped that for an Exile in EotE, Emergent would offer a "next step" so to speak instead of a parallel one, as far as Force dice are concerned. It's fine as presented, but didn't really present itself the way I thought it would for players who are trying to embrace this whole multiple game compatibility thing. I doubt the FS at my table is going to dive all the way to the bottom of the Emergent Tree just to grab another white die. I might be mistaken, though.

It can be a next step. You just don't get an automatic Force Rating boost for buying into the Emergent specialization.

If Force Rating 3 is Jedi Knight-level power (EotE Beta), then it would make sense that you'd have to buy down to the bottom of two specializations. Jedi Knights are pretty boss. Not to be confused with BoSS.

I'm actually taken aback that Age of Rebellion didn't advance the timeline to post-Hoth. It makes me wonder what FFG is planning for Force and Destiny , given that we all assumed AoR would be post-Hoth and then F&D would be post-Endor as a way to be more fertile for Jedi characters.

People assumed this for some reason (perhaps a trilogy of books is somewhat evocative of a trilogy of movies), and it was a rather pervasive idea in online forums, but from the beginning all we were given was this description:

To encapsulate the operatic grandeur of the Star Wars universe, the Star Wars Roleplaying Game will be presented in three epic installments. These take place during the height of the Rebel Alliance’s struggle against the Galactic Empire.

...

Each of these independent game lines stands alone as a unique gaming experience while fully integrating with the others to form a single unified system.

The way the devs talked about it on the Order 66 podcast, and the product descriptions, left me with a sense of vague concurrency.

In any case, they are definitely not sequels of each other, but rather different stories being told against a larger backdrop. The books are more about THEMES than they are about "timeline progression."

I thought the book specifically mentioned Luke and Obi-Wan as the only Force users the rebellion had at its disposal in the given timeframe, but now I can't find that bit anywhere.

That is definitely antithetical towards roleplaying games, and not entirely true. Obi-Wan was never really at the disposal of the Rebellion to begin with.

According to Yoda, Luke was "the last of the Jedi." But that is according to Yoda, a Master of the Old Jedi Order. He is 1) not omniscient and 2) perhaps a little biased. So even when it comes to straight-up Jedi, one could take his statement made in RotJ with a grain of salt, especially when playing a game where one's character is a "figure of legend." ¹ But when it comes to Force users in general, Yoda's statement is a moot point. There could be any number of such beings involved in the Rebellion or elsewhere in the galaxy, people with varying levels of proficiency and understanding in the Force. And certainly your roleplaying game player character could be one such special being.

If this kind of statement was in any of the books, it flies in the face of what is printed in the Force Emergent section of AoR, which IIRC mentions a "cadre of Force Sensitives" being vital to the efforts of the Rebellion.

But really, the only important question is what color the book will be.

I think it'll be blue.

I like the idea of black. But up til now, I think I did envision it as being blue.

Well put Away.

The "Last of the Jedi" thing is murky and biased, and based on the overarching thematic concepts of the original trilogy.

We're talking about the same pair of dudes that were all "Oh yeah, Darth Vader totes whacked your dad Luke... Like, for reals yo." (I might not have quoted that exactly as it was in the films.) So they clearly weren't the kind to resist a little exaggeration. Not to mention the issue of forgetfulness. Obi-wan was there for the birth of the Skywalkers and "adoption" of Leia, but he says "That boy is our last hope" and Yoda replies "No, there is another." This could be interpreted to show that Yoda and Obi-wan are really talking about the future of the Jedi tradition (of which they are the last, as far as they know), and not the defeat of the Emperor. After all, they are hellbent on training Luke (or someone) as a Jedi, and then having that Jedi defeat the Emperor/Vader, the two most powerful men in the galaxy who have spent the last 20 years erasing the Jedi from the history books...

Earthy brown or a dark green. Maybe a deep blue. (Then we get the ultra American red white and blue between the cores!)

Wouldn't that make it more like the French flag?

Get out.

I had initially hoped that for an Exile in EotE, Emergent would offer a "next step" so to speak instead of a parallel one, as far as Force dice are concerned. It's fine as presented, but didn't really present itself the way I thought it would for players who are trying to embrace this whole multiple game compatibility thing. I doubt the FS at my table is going to dive all the way to the bottom of the Emergent Tree just to grab another white die. I might be mistaken, though.

You underestimate the benefit of those dice. And also the benefit of the talents in the tree.

I will admit that the tree was not what I would have expected, it certainly just feels like a re-arranged Exile tree

I thought the book specifically mentioned Luke and Obi-Wan as the only Force users the rebellion had at its disposal in the given timeframe, but now I can't find that bit anywhere.

That is definitely antithetical towards roleplaying games, and not entirely true. Obi-Wan was never really at the disposal of the Rebellion to begin with.

If this kind of statement was in any of the books, it flies in the face of what is printed in the Force Emergent section of AoR, which IIRC mentions a "cadre of Force Sensitives" being vital to the efforts of the Rebellion.

It is in fact in the book, but the point it's making is that Luke and Obi-Wan were the only known Force-users prior to Yavin. The Emergent section then builds on this point by saying that the exponential growth the Rebellion undergoes post-Yavin draws in a large number of new Force-users, partially due to tales of Luke's exploits.

I had initially hoped that for an Exile in EotE, Emergent would offer a "next step" so to speak instead of a parallel one, as far as Force dice are concerned. It's fine as presented, but didn't really present itself the way I thought it would for players who are trying to embrace this whole multiple game compatibility thing. I doubt the FS at my table is going to dive all the way to the bottom of the Emergent Tree just to grab another white die. I might be mistaken, though.

You'd be surprised of the appeal of getting that extra white die, especially as the Emergent offers a straight-line path to the Force Rating talent, made even quicker if your Exile has picked a few other talents, in addition to adding things like Grit and Toughened to the mix.

So in that light, the Emergent is 'a step up' for the F/S Exile, it's just that instead of being a really big step, it's fairly small step.

It is in fact in the book, but the point it's making is that Luke and Obi-Wan were the only known Force-users prior to Yavin. The Emergent section then builds on this point by saying that the exponential growth the Rebellion undergoes post-Yavin draws in a large number of new Force-users, partially due to tales of Luke's exploits.

That's it, thank you.

And my comment on the timeline wasn't meant to express disappointment; I'm actually thrilled. I was just surprised because the EotE Beta was explicitly (sort of) set before A New Hope , and then the actual product was after it. Thus, when the AoR Beta was set after A New Hope , I thought it made enough points of data to predict the final product would reference post- Empire . Pleased to be wrong.

Besides, you can set these stories at any time in the known, unknown, or now-decanonized Star Wars universe and they'll still work. That's doubtlessly my favorite part of these games.

Besides, you can set these stories at any time in the known, unknown, or now-decanonized Star Wars universe and they'll still work. That's doubtlessly my favorite part of these games.

Totally. For example I was thinking that the time period of KotOR would be an excellent alternate setting for this system.

So I noticed some questions that are going unanswered or unexplained and thought I would take a stab at it.

Why are we discussing this at all?
Well, honestly it is all in good fun. It is that simple we can theorize, strategize, guess, and just poke at the beta book until it gets here. Much like we are looking forward to Star Wars Rebels cartoon.

What is up with them putting stuff in the books that are not canon anymore?

Well, again I will simply point out that when FFG approached LucasArts (not Disney owned at the time) they came with a business plan. In this plan everything was planned out for what they intended to put in the 3 core rule books and how they planned to support each individual line. Now while all the details were not hammered out on that very day according to Sam Stewart and Jay Little this game had been in production for a full year before they approached LucasArts to be allowed to get the license. This was probably so that they could present the idea in a more thought out form. Anyway when they did all the development up until just this year everything they had planned and included up until then was still canon. Now while yes they could of possibly pulled the plug midstream and stuck solely to canon I believe they pointed this out to Disney (the new owners) and asked to continue forward. Disney appears to have approved so I am perfectly fine if they want to throw everything from what is now Legends into the books. I prefer having that then to limit or hamstring the development of what so far has been an excellent game.

But I hated <insert whatever you want here> from the EU! My response to that is So? There were things I didn't like too.

But they didn't give me <blank> in this core rule book I am so <blank>. My response to this is to come up with a way to explain the first <blank>, a well thought out argument, and then submit it to the Devs. Who knows, maybe your idea will get included into a future book or get addressed in the forums or on a podcast.

Personally right now I would love to tweak and tinker with a starship more then what we have right now. However, I am going to be patient as I know either the Engineer or Technician will be getting their own splat book and in there will be all the toys I want.

Again that is an example of speculation and hypothesizing the future releases. Again I just see this as part of the fun in the future of the game.

And my bet is Dark Green in honor of the forest moons that have been in the movies as well as Luke's lightsaber, though a light blue would be cool too as it is a very common lighsaber color.

I'd love a shipbuilder's book as a supplement!

I look at whats available and of late been wondering why they don't seem to fit the bill anymore?

Back when the original trilogy was shown I never once questioned how they could be using star fighters to travels for weeks and not suffer problems as a result and then the absence of fighter carriers to explain how they could maintain their fighters and remain mobile to escape the inevitable Imperial attention.

You could say I've been thinking too much on this!

As for the Force & Destiny Beta... well I'm hoping they keep them balanced with the other core rulebooks too!

Late the the conversation here, but oh well.

I'm thinking it'll be "Luke's Lightsaber" Green. If it isn't, I'm betting "Luke's First Lightsaber" Blue. Black would be pretty boss.

If I were FFG, and I were told to write up the jobs for F&D, I think I'd do them something like this. Create a 'generic archetype' and then put in the big name on the specializations. For example, I would have Force Warrior for the career, and then make one specialization Jedi Knight, one Sith Warlord, and one something more 'agnostic', like a Force martial artist, or a 'tribal warrior' kinda deal. Same with Force Adept. Jedi Sage, Sith Wizard, and then maybe Force Witches, or Shaman.

I do have to wonder though if we aren't all missing the other half of the title here. Everyone's talking about the Force side of things, what is the Destiny component of this book going to be about? Any theories?

First off whose destiny?

if we go back to the d20 version (sorry but using that as a point of reference ) they had a section dealing with the various destinies of players even going so far as to use that to explain the Skywalker lineage.

So will this be another universal speciality where the character gets a bonus when they remain true to their character's perceived future?

A whole series of talent trees involving either luck or some specific goal?

Secondly is Destiny the Obligation or Duty for this Core Rulebook?

Thirdly is this restricted to the Original trilogy era because it would be way too easy to throw in canon history just as what is canon has changed dramatically?

Fourthly we have no idea just how widespread this book is going to cover!

All those Order 66 survivors... will they acknowledge them or even highlight those that fell after the events of ROTS?

What place would they hold in this book whether just used as part of the examples which would really help those of us still trying to understand how the force is used or supposed to be used?

Going too far and threateningly bad grammar again!

Well I must say I'm happy with the direction that Fantasy Flight Games going with the Force in comparison to the past interpretation of the Star Wars RPGs. I'm pretty confident that Force and Destiny will probably satisfy ppl. But I'm giddy over Force and Destiny just biting my nails to see the fruition of their type of Jedi or whatever type of Force user the have in mind.

I had initially hoped that for an Exile in EotE, Emergent would offer a "next step" so to speak instead of a parallel one, as far as Force dice are concerned. It's fine as presented, but didn't really present itself the way I thought it would for players who are trying to embrace this whole multiple game compatibility thing. I doubt the FS at my table is going to dive all the way to the bottom of the Emergent Tree just to grab another white die. I might be mistaken, though.

You'd be surprised of the appeal of getting that extra white die, especially as the Emergent offers a straight-line path to the Force Rating talent, made even quicker if your Exile has picked a few other talents, in addition to adding things like Grit and Toughened to the mix.

So in that light, the Emergent is 'a step up' for the F/S Exile, it's just that instead of being a really big step, it's fairly small step.

That makes sense. Appreciate the fresh view on it.

Late the the conversation here, but oh well.

I'm thinking it'll be "Luke's Lightsaber" Green. If it isn't, I'm betting "Luke's First Lightsaber" Blue. Black would be pretty boss.

If I were FFG, and I were told to write up the jobs for F&D, I think I'd do them something like this. Create a 'generic archetype' and then put in the big name on the specializations. For example, I would have Force Warrior for the career, and then make one specialization Jedi Knight, one Sith Warlord, and one something more 'agnostic', like a Force martial artist, or a 'tribal warrior' kinda deal. Same with Force Adept. Jedi Sage, Sith Wizard, and then maybe Force Witches, or Shaman.

I do have to wonder though if we aren't all missing the other half of the title here. Everyone's talking about the Force side of things, what is the Destiny component of this book going to be about? Any theories?

The problem with that approach is that a big part of a career is the disount on in career specilizations, it doesn't make sense that a non-fallen jedi knight would pick up Sith warrior instead of another light side related ability.

And following the "we expect you to be at least light grey" feel of Edge I expect we won't get anything that is intrinsically darker than, say, Kyle Katarn, so nothing actually named after the sith. This doesn't preclude things like force lighting though, plo koon had a light side varient didn't he?

You might be right on that whole 'no Sith' point, these games definitely cast the characters as the heroes. If I were the writer, I'd put in the sith classes. Then again, I am not the writer. It could still be done though as Jedi Knight, Jedi Kung Fu Master (insert in theme martial arts tradition here) and Tribal Warrior. So on and so forth.

Destiny as the 'duty' mechanic could be interesting. Every time your destiny comes up, gain a buff, like for Duty? Could work. Is there any chance we will see 'destiny' based career specializations? Personally, I'd love to see them to let non-jedi fans play in F&D as a stand alone game, but I can't. think of any.