Again I ask, what does any of this matter to anyone's game or what will be presented in F&D? What does it matter that in the movies they were the only ones? Especially when canon gets changed regularly, as is the case in the EU before it became legends and in the current canon with Kanan being around when there "aren't supposed to be any Jedi". How many more times is canon going to be adjusted in the future? Why hold so tight to such things?

How will they fill up a book? They will give you the tools to play Force-users of many stripes because that is what people want, albeit aimed more at the light side of things as I think they will leave dark side stuff to a later supplement, much like an Empire supplement. They want to play Jedi, Nightsisters, Imperial Knights, and on and on. What does canon have to do with the game which regularly breaks canon as a matter of course. The movies are only a reference point, not the be all and end all.

This should be written in large letters in red ink on the inside of the F&D cover.

It's funny, I'm not much of a Jedi fanboy but I'm looking forward to this book more then any other just because I can't wait to see the boards crash from all the bickering.

That's a bit harsh.

I reckon there is going to have to be a lot of discussion in F&D about precedents and justifications for having lightsaber wielders other than Luke and Vader running around in the rebellion era, so like I say, if the very concept of that offends you it will be better for everyone if you stick your fingers in your ears and say La La La I Can't Hear You every time F&D come up.

I mean, surely it is going to have stuff on, say, The Emperors Shadow Guard:-

Cortosis Staff Weilding Imperial Senate Guards:-

Inquisitors:-

Secret Sith Appretices

Emperors Hands

etc. etc.

so if you hate that stuff on principle, what exactly do you expect to get out of F&D?

GoM:EDIT:(images removed for clarity)

I think it's a little harsh and premature to say "There's gonna be lightsabers in this book, so if you don't like lightsabers then GTFO!"

It's like saying if you don't like blaster rifles you shouldn't buy Dangerous Covenants.

After all, at the moment, you don't have to join a secret order of slicers to take the Slicer spec. You could just be a guy good with computers. You can take the Bounty Hunter specs like Assassin or Gadgeteer without being a paid-up, fully-credited Bounty Hunter belonging to a guild.

Now I want to include a secret order of Slicers in my game.

After all, at the moment, you don't have to join a secret order of slicers to take the Slicer spec. You could just be a guy good with computers. You can take the Bounty Hunter specs like Assassin or Gadgeteer without being a paid-up, fully-credited Bounty Hunter belonging to a guild.

Now I want to include a secret order of Slicers in my game.

HolonetLeaks? Incognito (Anonymous)?

I think it's a little harsh and premature to say "There's gonna be lightsabers in this book, so if you don't like lightsabers then GTFO!"

It's like saying if you don't like blaster rifles you shouldn't buy Dangerous Covenants.

Don't take it personally, Ghost.

Erik actually has interesting things to say when he's not fanboying, but he's frequently short on politeness.

Like I said, I don't get it. There isn't Star Wars without Jedi. There are all kinds of scifi universes with people running around with ray guns. Jedi make Star Wars, Star Wars.

. . . or Lensman.

(As a side note, I cant track you anymore now that you swapped your avatar!)

I think it's a little harsh and premature to say "There's gonna be lightsabers in this book, so if you don't like lightsabers then GTFO!"

It's like saying if you don't like blaster rifles you shouldn't buy Dangerous Covenants.

Don't take it personally, Ghost.

Erik actually has interesting things to say when he's not fanboying, but he's frequently short on politeness.

Ohhhhh... didn't know he changed his name again. Everything is explained...

Now I'm extra excited for FaD...

Like I said, I don't get it. There isn't Star Wars without Jedi. There are all kinds of scifi universes with people running around with ray guns. Jedi make Star Wars, Star Wars.

. . . or Lensman.

(As a side note, I cant track you anymore now that you swapped your avatar!)

Arr.....

I think it's a little harsh and premature to say "There's gonna be lightsabers in this book, so if you don't like lightsabers then GTFO!"

It's like saying if you don't like blaster rifles you shouldn't buy Dangerous Covenants.

Don't take it personally, Ghost.

Erik actually has interesting things to say when he's not fanboying, but he's frequently short on politeness.

Ohhhhh... didn't know he changed his name again. Everything is explained...

He probably got banned under the ErikB forum handle, just as he got banned back when he was AluminumWolf.

So now he's back under a new handle. Guess we'll see how long it lasts before that one gets banned too.

As for That Blasted Samoflange's remark about having Force user careers and specializations that are totally generic...

It won't be happening. Jedi are by far one of the most iconic elements of the Star Wars settings, one of the things that makes "Star Wars" truly "Star Wars" for a lot of people. There's already been a metric crapload of nerd rage that bonafide Jedi PCs weren't present as a playable option from Day 1, with a common remark being "I'll come back when FFG actually has a complete game instead only part of one," with this same crowd treating the Exile and Emergent as "playing pretend at being Jedi" due to the lack of an actual Lightsaber skill and the ability to deflect/redirect blaster fire. I'd hate to imagine what the reaction would have been had EotE not included any rules for playing Force users; in all likelihood the negative backlash wouldn't have painted a cheery future for the product line or FFG's stewardship of the RPG license. D&D's been big enough that it could weather the hater crowd, and in spite of the derision that 4e earned and the presence of Paizo's 3.5 clone Pathfinder, 4e was still a very profitable product line for WotC. Sure you'd have people buying the books because it has the words "Star Wars" on it, but how many would continue supporting that product line if Force users weren't even an option in the game?

I suspect a number of the new careers will be generic, but I will be very surprised if there's not at least one career labeled Jedi in the mix. Not only is it an iconic part of the franchise, but also remember that there is a younger generation of gamers for whom Star Wars literally starts with the prequel trilogy, being too young to have grown up with the Original Trilogy as many of us older gamers have. For them, the prequels were great films simply because they're not packing the decade plus of baggage that those of us who saw the original films in the theater are carrying. So for them, who are just as much a part of the consumer base for this game, the Jedi are the central element of the Star Wars setting, being very prominent in both the prequels and The Clone Wars. For them, not having a Jedi career and/or specs would be akin to having D&D without the classic Cleric/Fighter/Thief/Wizard set-up (though D&D has taken to using Rogue instead of Thief these days).

I see your reasoning, Donovan, but I think I'm with Samophlange on this one...

I think we'll have generic specialisations (not universal ones though!) to make our own force-user of any tradition.

But we shall just have to see. Hopefully we'll know soon enough when the Beta hits.

I think F&D will be far, far more contentious than either of the two previous lines in terms of fan anguish.

(As to 4E... it was over inside 2 years, was mothballed by a 4.5 edition, and the new extensively-playtested edition completely eliminates any aspect of 4E entirely... WotC lost a huge section of their fanbase to Paizo, so I wouldn't personally call it a win for WotC...)

PS. Glad to have my old sparring partner back! As long as you don't compare me to Erik again, we can agree to disagree

Marcy

He probably got banned under the ErikB forum handle, just as he got banned back when he was AluminumWolf.

So now he's back under a new handle. Guess we'll see how long it lasts before that one gets banned too.

To be fair to him, he seems to have been mostly polite in this incarnation. He mostly confines his fanboyism to posting lots of pictures and hoping for over-the-top superhero Jedi in F&D.

He still won't answer my question as to whether he actually plays any of the games, however...

I think he's just here to get his fanboy thing on.

I think F&D will be far, far more contentious than either of the two pervious lines in terms of fan anguish.

I figured that was a given.

I'm already planning on generally steering clear of the F&D Beta forums when they are set-up, and simply send my feedback to FFG directly rather than hope anything I've got so say makes it through the high noise content that forum will undoubtedly have.

As for the Jedi career, I never said anyone had to like the idea of having a Jedi-specific career. But folks have to remember that what passes for a forum community here is simply an overly-vocal minority in comparison the much larger customer base. I wouldn't be surprised that for every person that posts to the AoR and/or EotE forums, there's at least 20 people who simply purchase the books and either enjoy the game or don't. And if anyone wants to call me "prickly" for stating a fairly obvious fact that the game's fan far outstrips the number of folks that post on these forums and that FFG doesn't base their business decisions solely upon what a few forum posters claim to want, then go right ahead.

Earthy brown or a dark green. Maybe a deep blue. (Then we get the ultra American red white and blue between the cores!)

I'm already planning on generally steering clear of the F&D Beta forums when they are set-up, and simply send my feedback to FFG directly rather than hope anything I've got so say makes it through the high noise content that forum will undoubtedly have.

Very wise. I shall do the same, I think.

It could get very ugly very quickly, when people don't get what they expected.

Hey, I didn't bring up the 'prickly' thing this time!

I'm already planning on generally steering clear of the F&D Beta forums when they are set-up, and simply send my feedback to FFG directly rather than hope anything I've got so say makes it through the high noise content that forum will undoubtedly have.

Very wise. I shall do the same, I think.

It could get very ugly very quickly, when people don't get what they expected.

I may not post a whole lot in it, but there's no way I'm staying out of that forum. You guys are going to be missing some rage-posts of hilariously epic proportions.

I don't want to burn the galaxy to the ground, but if it's gonna burn anyway I'm gonna get me some good seats.

I don't want to burn the galaxy to the ground, but if it's gonna burn anyway I'm gonna get me some good seats.

Some men just want to watch the galaxy burn, eh? Sounds like the foundation for a Batman inspired Edge of the Empire campaign.

Still, once the Force & Destiny beta drops, and the forum is actually created, it'll certainly be entertaining to watch...

Alfred as a protocol droid?

"I'm sorry master Bruce, I'm fluent in 6 million forms of communication and I still can't understand what you are saying."

Alfred as a protocol droid?

"I'm sorry master Bruce, I'm fluent in 6 million forms of communication and I still can't understand what you are saying."

This absolutely has to happen.

It could get very ugly very quickly, when people don't get what they expected.

I Told You So this would happen. Because it is precisely what happened the last time FFG did this with the 40k games and Space Marines.

You know the definition of insanity?

Alfred as a protocol droid?

"I'm sorry master Bruce, I'm fluent in 6 million forms of communication and I still can't understand what you are saying."

"I'm Mynock-Man!"

I think the beta tests asked for feedback directly anyway. The forums are kind of an ala carte for the devs I would think. Typically they are probably going to want more details than "Spec X sux!" for feedback. Honestly sometimes people do post good house rules on the forums so I wouldn't just dismiss it all out of hand. To be sure there will be plenty of full diapers I've no doubt, but I do have faith FFG is going to cast the net wide in regards to content.

I think F&D will be far, far more contentious than either of the two previous lines in terms of fan anguish.

I'm pretty sure FFG knew what they were doing when they saved F&D for last, for this exact reason.

As much as I like to speculate on what could be included, I probably won't be buying the beta book. A friend of mine is going to GenCon, he's almost certain to get it, and I'll thumb through it. But in the end, I'll wait until the final product is released before I include anything about F&D into my gaming experience.

I think F&D will be far, far more contentious than either of the two previous lines in terms of fan anguish.

I'm pretty sure FFG knew what they were doing when they saved F&D for last, for this exact reason.

As much as I like to speculate on what could be included, I probably won't be buying the beta book. A friend of mine is going to GenCon, he's almost certain to get it, and I'll thumb through it. But in the end, I'll wait until the final product is released before I include anything about F&D into my gaming experience.

If it's anything like AoR, then there may be very few differences between the Beta and the Core Rulebook. I chose to wait for the AoR Core Rulebook rather than playing from the Beta, and I feel like I wasted some time. That's why I'm perfectly willing to let my players utilize the FaD Beta without too much hesitation.

I'm already planning on generally steering clear of the F&D Beta forums when they are set-up, and simply send my feedback to FFG directly rather than hope anything I've got so say makes it through the high noise content that forum will undoubtedly have.

Very wise. I shall do the same, I think.

It could get very ugly very quickly, when people don't get what they expected.

I may not post a whole lot in it, but there's no way I'm staying out of that forum. You guys are going to be missing some rage-posts of hilariously epic proportions.

I don't want to burn the galaxy to the ground, but if it's gonna burn anyway I'm gonna get me some good seats.