*looking at the size of this topic* That´s no moon...

May I ask since which page there is info about the Beta book itself? I am bit lost.

Also, do we now have pretty much everything we need to play an Old Republic campaign? And how would you do Sith Inquisitor from SWTOR ?

The strain load is pretty heavy however.

The thing is, you don't want to totally negate the benefit of successful attacks. Mitigating them to strain allows the attacker to have gained ground while avoiding the "I hit first so I win" situation that can arise from using lightsabers.

So yes, three or four parries is costly, but that was three or four successful lightsaber attacks that didn't kill you.

I actually spoke with Sam Stewart about this, and how using Parry and Reflect is a finite resource. It fits the general feel of the films where you see a few exchanges of lightsaber strikes (character use Parry with a few ranks to cut down on the damage) before the decisive blow is struck, bearing in mind the general default of 1 combat round = 1 minute of doing stuff vs. other RPGs using 1 combat round = handful of seconds). Combined with the generally reduced damage values of a non-tricked out lightsaber, that goes a long ways towards capturing the feel of lighsaber fights we see on the screen, with the combatants spending their Advantages to recover Strain.

Morality looks interesting. Is it a mechanic relevant only to force users, or can it be used independently by non force-users?

It could probably be used by non-Force users, since there's a penalty/bonus to one's Strain Threshold if you get a really low or really high Morality score. I've talked it over with my GM for the Saturday game I'm in, and we're going to implement it for my PC, even though he's not using one of the F&D careers (he is a Force Emergent, and I'm taking Ataru Striker with his saved XP).

*looking at the size of this topic* That´s no moon...

May I ask since which page there is info about the Beta book itself? I am bit lost.

Also, do we now have pretty much everything we need to play an Old Republic campaign? And how would you do Sith Inquisitor from SWTOR ?

Start around page 40, and yes, it does appear that the 25000+ year history of the Republic is now available to play in

Just about everybody in the real world can get the blue prints for builing nuclear weapons, but that doesn't mean everybody has one. The crystal are the limiter. They are exceptionally rare and hard to craft for use in a lightsaber. That crafting takes skill, but not necessarily use of the Force (although it could certainly help if practiced to do so).

If I use TCW as a guide, then the use of the Force is essential...

Not true. It is a Droid doing the teaching in that episode. If only the Force can build a lightsaber, how does a Droid become a master lightsaber engineer? They're just mechanical tools, but they're complicated ones. The Force allows children to put pre-constructed pieces together, but they're still powered by circuits and power cells that could be modified by a mechanics check.

He is teaching, but he is not building. Lots of people teach things to students who far exceed the teacher's skills or ability. Male gynecologists deliver babies, they aren't likely to ever have one............

Um, that is not the same thing at all.

Anyway, a lightsaber is separate parts that are all manufactured. All the Jedi does is put them together. They're complicated, yes, because if things are put together wrong, they can explode. But that requires knowledge, not the Force. What part of the construction can't be done by a mundane person with the parts and tools?

*looking at the size of this topic* That´s no moon...

May I ask since which page there is info about the Beta book itself? I am bit lost.

Also, do we now have pretty much everything we need to play an Old Republic campaign? And how would you do Sith Inquisitor from SWTOR ?

Start around page 40, and yes, it does appear that the 25000+ year history of the Republic is now available to play in

Good, gooood... *evil laugh*

Just about everybody in the real world can get the blue prints for builing nuclear weapons, but that doesn't mean everybody has one. The crystal are the limiter. They are exceptionally rare and hard to craft for use in a lightsaber. That crafting takes skill, but not necessarily use of the Force (although it could certainly help if practiced to do so).

If I use TCW as a guide, then the use of the Force is essential...

Not true. It is a Droid doing the teaching in that episode. If only the Force can build a lightsaber, how does a Droid become a master lightsaber engineer? They're just mechanical tools, but they're complicated ones. The Force allows children to put pre-constructed pieces together, but they're still powered by circuits and power cells that could be modified by a mechanics check.

He is teaching, but he is not building. Lots of people teach things to students who far exceed the teacher's skills or ability. Male gynecologists deliver babies, they aren't likely to ever have one............

Um, that is not the same thing at all.

Anyway, a lightsaber is separate parts that are all manufactured. All the Jedi does is put them together. They're complicated, yes, because if things are put together wrong, they can explode. But that requires knowledge, not the Force. What part of the construction can't be done by a mundane person with the parts and tools?

It is the same thing. Just because someone can't do something doesn't mean they can't teach it. Someone in a wheelchair their whole life is perfectly capable of being a track and field coach but they aren't competing in pole vaulting. Lots of people teach things they themselves will never be able to do. The argument a droid teaching Lightsaber construction means anyone can do it is a poor one.

I could probably argue that a droid would be the only type of non-force user with the precision to get one of theses things assembled.

WRT lightsaber mods, I'm growing fond of the idea of Mechanics for the electro-mechanical parts and Discipline for the crystal.

WRT lightsaber mods, I'm growing fond of the idea of Mechanics for the electro-mechanical parts and Discipline for the crystal.

Especially as building something as significant as a lightsaber might be better as several separate 'checks'.

Contrariwise, it brings two chances for failure instead of just one - were I to do this, I probably wouldn't make them waste the materials on a failure (though perhaps some circuitry needs replacement with significant threats - but not a major re-investment in parts).

It also just makes a kind of storytelling sense. The lightsaber is basically a magic item, so it makes poetic sense that the only ones able to create them would be magic users.

It also just makes a kind of storytelling sense. The lightsaber is basically a magic item, so it makes poetic sense that the only ones able to create them would be magic users.

That, and TCWs shows kids making them by using the Force to float parts in the air while seated with their eyes closed.......................

Heh now I'm wondering about stats for that droid on the Jedi ship with the padawans during those episodes!

Voiced by David Tennant if I recall properly... now a quest to recover one of those droids might be well worth a series of adventures if I can turn around and point them to a clip from that show and say its like that but better !

Why one of those droids? Why not that droid? Seems like a great campaign idea for a F&D campaign to me.

WRT lightsaber mods, I'm growing fond of the idea of Mechanics for the electro-mechanical parts and Discipline for the crystal.

I would expect that most of the mechanical components could be created by mundane mechanics. The droid in TCW was digging through all kinds of drawers for parts, and I can't imagine all these parts where created in a factory worked only by Force Sensitives. But getting all the pieces to come together properly is the real trick and would seem to be where the real skill is. The best components still have to be aligned and connected, and only the FS can do that.

The best components still have to be aligned and connected, and only the FS can do that.

Yes, because you need the Move and Sense powers to make all those blind internal connections during assembly...

Just about everybody in the real world can get the blue prints for builing nuclear weapons, but that doesn't mean everybody has one. The crystal are the limiter. They are exceptionally rare and hard to craft for use in a lightsaber. That crafting takes skill, but not necessarily use of the Force (although it could certainly help if practiced to do so).

If I use TCW as a guide, then the use of the Force is essential...

Not true. It is a Droid doing the teaching in that episode. If only the Force can build a lightsaber, how does a Droid become a master lightsaber engineer? They're just mechanical tools, but they're complicated ones. The Force allows children to put pre-constructed pieces together, but they're still powered by circuits and power cells that could be modified by a mechanics check.

He is teaching, but he is not building. Lots of people teach things to students who far exceed the teacher's skills or ability. Male gynecologists deliver babies, they aren't likely to ever have one............

Um, that is not the same thing at all.

Anyway, a lightsaber is separate parts that are all manufactured. All the Jedi does is put them together. They're complicated, yes, because if things are put together wrong, they can explode. But that requires knowledge, not the Force. What part of the construction can't be done by a mundane person with the parts and tools?

It is the same thing. Just because someone can't do something doesn't mean they can't teach it. Someone in a wheelchair their whole life is perfectly capable of being a track and field coach but they aren't competing in pole vaulting. Lots of people teach things they themselves will never be able to do. The argument a droid teaching Lightsaber construction means anyone can do it is a poor one.

As for the teaching argument, no, just no. Maybe in low-level areas, but you're never going to find a high-level teacher who doesn't know how to do what they're teaching. They may not be the best at it, but you don't find people who can't wire a circuit teaching electrical engineering.

And wow guys, connectors make it so a lightsaber has to be built by a force sensitive? How do we manage to build jets and nuclear bombs? How do we build particle accelerators? iPhones even, for that matter? Internal connections are not something that requires Space Magic.

The best components still have to be aligned and connected, and only the FS can do that.

Yes, because you need the Move and Sense powers to make all those blind internal connections during assembly...

I think that might a little too literal an approach. In that episode the Younglings aren't just putting parts together, they're taught to use the Force to visualize their Lightsaber. It's not just equipment, it's an expression of who they are. They're letting the Force guide them in what their weapon should look like and how it should function. Professor Huyang taught them and they used the Force to guide them in creating the template, then he provided the parts.

The Younglings then obviously meditate and it is as much the Force assembling the Lightsaber, as any overt influence exerted by the Younglings. So I think just using Discipline to represent the a Force users ability to connect with the Force and initiate the process of assembling a Lightsaber is sufficient from a game mechanics perspective.

It certainly makes more sense than expecting every Jedi took electronics assembly 101 for 3 skills points to be able to build Lightsabers.

I think what it comes down to is, do whatever you think is right for your campaign.

The business with the droid on TCW isn't conclusive, so if you feel like anyone with a Mechanics skill should be able to build a lightsaber, then more power to you, feel free to play that way in your game.

Personally if it were to come up in my game, I'm more of the mind that a lightsaber is a mystic, magical item more than a connection of circuits and batteries, so in my own personal games it would require someone with a touch of the Force to construct a lightsaber.

But I don't know that we're going to convince one another. If you believe it's just Mechanics, enjoy! If you think it requires the Force, have at it!

My favorite approach to this is the one in I, Jedi; he gets the instructions from his grandfather on how to build it, gets the parts together - it calls out certain parts being contained - and puts the whole thing together as carefully as he could. The Force came into play for the first charging - he 'bathes' it in Force energy as it charges to more perfectly align all the circuitry, components, bind it to him, and ensure that the saber would be well-made.

But there is no proof in any of the Star Wars canon that lightsabers are "magical" items. Non-Jedi are fully capable of using lightsabers. I mean, if lightsabers didn't work in the hands of a non-Force User, you'd have a good argument.. but since they will work for anyone who picks them up, I'm not sure what's any more magical about them than a turbo-laser or a deflector shield?

Cause that's what it comes down to--what makes the lightsaber special in comparison to a personal shield generator or a cybernetic eye that is capable of transmitting information into the brain?

In my opinion, lightsabers are definitely magical items.

Nobody's arguing that they stop working or cease to exist when Han Solo picks them up to chop open a tauntaun.

The question is more about whether Chewbacca could build one in his spare time.

In my game, they'd be mystical and magical items. Like I said, at this point I don't think anyone's convincing anyone of anything.

You know, tecnically, RAW, building a lightsaber doesn't even require a check. Building the hilt spells out that the only check necesary is to find the parts, and installing a crystal is just adding an attachment. It's only in modifying the attachments that skill checks are introduced.

One could potentially view the act of modifying the weapon as the part that requires the insights of the Force in the lore. I would still put it as Mechanics. Changing it to Discipline seems unessesary, and disrupts some of the synergy with the Artisan spec's expertise at making sabers.

In my opinion, lightsabers are definitely magical items.

Nobody's arguing that they stop working or cease to exist when Han Solo picks them up to chop open a tauntaun.

The question is more about whether Chewbacca could build one in his spare time.

In my game, they'd be mystical and magical items. Like I said, at this point I don't think anyone's convincing anyone of anything.

So Chewbacca could build a cybernetic that can communicate with someone's brain, but he couldn't build a device that merely creates a plasma blade? One of those things seems incredibly more impressive than the other.. and hint: its not the lightsaber.

In my headcanon or whatever we want to call it, anyone can build a basic lightsaber, it then takes someone with the force to trick it out with all those cool mods.