No, once you're in the tree you can buy the FR Talent in the tree.

OK my head is spinning a little.

You need a requisite FR to buy Force powers.

You only get a FR to begin with by either buying into Exile or Emergent, or starting a character with a F&D base career.

You can have an existing character from AoR and EoE and buy a F&D spec, but you don't get a default FR when you do.

You can advance through a F&D spec you bought as an existing AoR or EoE character and eventually purchase a FR in that tree.

OK my head is spinning a little.

Deep breaths. Focus. Clear your mind.

What they need is a universal Spec that has both parry and reflect on it so that everyone can get it with out wasting the points on a spec they dont want (like the recruit spec)

and whats with reflect being a force only trait Grevious does it all the time, and he has no force rating?

Too OP. You're character gets where you want it too quickly imo.

ok ill give you that and agree

but that still leaves why are lightsaber specs tied to careers should they not be universal

You cannot take the Force Rating talent if you don't have a Force Rating. This was established years ago with the Force Sensitive Exile spec in Edge of the Empire .

Page 275, EotE, " [A] character with aForce rating of one or higher is considered Force sensitive …talents and specialization trees that con only be taken by Force-sensitive characters will indicate this status in their description. "

The Force Rating talent is listed as a "Force Talent" in every tree it appears in in the F&D book.

-EF

Probably because balance would become a near impossible thing to accomplish.

Perhaps this is just an artifact of my having just gotten up, and my brain not yet being fully online - but is the Morality section missing an important bit of text?

Okay, the Obligation from EotE has a player take more Obligation on for extra XP and/or cash. +5 gets you a little bit extra, +10 gets you a whole lot extra. A player can do this too with Morality, Increasing or decreasing the PC’s starting Morality by 20 - but there isn't a number attached to it (something like -5 morality gets you+5 XP, -the fiull 20 morality gets you +10 XP).

So it's just pick one from the chart: more XP, more money, more money and XP, or more (or less) morality - without a string attached?

Perhaps this is just an artifact of my having just gotten up, and my brain not yet being fully online - but is the Morality section missing an important bit of text?

Okay, the Obligation from EotE has a player take more Obligation on for extra XP and/or cash. +5 gets you a little bit extra, +10 gets you a whole lot extra. A player can do this too with Morality, Increasing or decreasing the PC’s starting Morality by 20 - but there isn't a number attached to it (something like -5 morality gets you+5 XP, -the fiull 20 morality gets you +10 XP).

So it's just pick one from the chart: more XP, more money, more money and XP, or more (or less) morality - without a string attached?

The book says choose one of the following options, and none of them list strings, so I'm assuming there are no strings.

I can't wait for my GenCon contact to bring my book back with him so I can read it in its entirety!

-EF

You cannot take the Force Rating talent if you don't have a Force Rating. This was established years ago with the Force Sensitive Exile spec in Edge of the Empire .

Page 275, EotE, " [A] character with aForce rating of one or higher is considered Force sensitive …talents and specialization trees that con only be taken by Force-sensitive characters will indicate this status in their description. "

The Force Rating talent is listed as a "Force Talent" in every tree it appears in in the F&D book.

-EF

Don't know if my PDF pages match the book so I won't bother, but in F&D "Note that a character without a FR (non Force-sensitive) can purchase a Force talent, however he cannot use it or gain any benefits from it."

So you can buy a FR in a F&D tree without being Force sensitive, and since it's a FR once you have it, you can use it. It all sort of happens simultaneously.

You cannot take the Force Rating talent if you don't have a Force Rating. This was established years ago with the Force Sensitive Exile spec in Edge of the Empire .

Page 275, EotE, " [A] character with aForce rating of one or higher is considered Force sensitive …talents and specialization trees that con only be taken by Force-sensitive characters will indicate this status in their description. "

The Force Rating talent is listed as a "Force Talent" in every tree it appears in in the F&D book.

-EF

Don't know if my PDF pages match the book so I won't bother, but in F&D "Note that a character without a FR (non Force-sensitive) can purchase a Force talent, however he cannot use it or gain any benefits from it."

So you can buy a FR in a F&D tree without being Force sensitive, and since it's a FR once you have it, you can use it. It all sort of happens simultaneously.

But if you " cannot gain any benefits from it " than it won't give you +1FR—since that's the benefit from it—so you're still not Force sensitive, right? So you don't get the benefits from it or any other Force talent you may have purchased along the way.

-EF

Perhaps this is just an artifact of my having just gotten up, and my brain not yet being fully online - but is the Morality section missing an important bit of text?

Okay, the Obligation from EotE has a player take more Obligation on for extra XP and/or cash. +5 gets you a little bit extra, +10 gets you a whole lot extra. A player can do this too with Morality, Increasing or decreasing the PC’s starting Morality by 20 - but there isn't a number attached to it (something like -5 morality gets you+5 XP, -the fiull 20 morality gets you +10 XP).

So it's just pick one from the chart: more XP, more money, more money and XP, or more (or less) morality - without a string attached?

Yah, I always read it as just pick an option.

You cannot take the Force Rating talent if you don't have a Force Rating. This was established years ago with the Force Sensitive Exile spec in Edge of the Empire .

Page 275, EotE, " [A] character with aForce rating of one or higher is considered Force sensitive …talents and specialization trees that con only be taken by Force-sensitive characters will indicate this status in their description. "

The Force Rating talent is listed as a "Force Talent" in every tree it appears in in the F&D book.

-EF

Don't know if my PDF pages match the book so I won't bother, but in F&D "Note that a character without a FR (non Force-sensitive) can purchase a Force talent, however he cannot use it or gain any benefits from it."

So you can buy a FR in a F&D tree without being Force sensitive, and since it's a FR once you have it, you can use it. It all sort of happens simultaneously.

But if you " cannot gain any benefits from it " than it won't give you +1FR—since that's the benefit from it—so you're still not Force sensitive, right? So you don't get the benefits from it or any other Force talent you may have purchased along the way.

-EF

Too much hair splitting and semantics for me.

Alright, I'm done talking about this...I want it!

Curious about 2 things:

In terms of relative power with the other games, does a starting character in F&D is the equivalent of a lets say bounty hunter + 200xp from Edge or are they deemed to be equal?

The one thing that "disturbs" me, and don't get me wrong I love everything I see so far, is that these "classes" suggest a training structure, a dogma etc. If the games are deemed to be between 4 and 5, there are no such things (that I am aware of). Are there rules to uncover ancient teachings and so on or does the force simply guides you in?

Thanks

Curious about 2 things:

In terms of relative power with the other games, does a starting character in F&D is the equivalent of a lets say bounty hunter + 200xp from Edge or are they deemed to be equal?

The one thing that "disturbs" me, and don't get me wrong I love everything I see so far, is that these "classes" suggest a training structure, a dogma etc. If the games are deemed to be between 4 and 5, there are no such things (that I am aware of). Are there rules to uncover ancient teachings and so on or does the force simply guides you in?

Thanks

A 200xp BH would whip a starting F&D guy's @$$.

In the 'free stuff' a starting player/group gets there is a ship, along with either a "Mentor" or a Holocron, that fill the role of providing guidance.

I agree about the semantics, if the DM wants force users, you'll have them if not you're SOL.

I like the house rule someone posted a while back that if you want a force user, he should have it at creation; it cannot be acquired afterward.

You cannot take the Force Rating talent if you don't have a Force Rating. This was established years ago with the Force Sensitive Exile spec in Edge of the Empire .

Page 275, EotE, " [A] character with aForce rating of one or higher is considered Force sensitive …talents and specialization trees that con only be taken by Force-sensitive characters will indicate this status in their description. "

The Force Rating talent is listed as a "Force Talent" in every tree it appears in in the F&D book.

-EF

Don't know if my PDF pages match the book so I won't bother, but in F&D "Note that a character without a FR (non Force-sensitive) can purchase a Force talent, however he cannot use it or gain any benefits from it."

So you can buy a FR in a F&D tree without being Force sensitive, and since it's a FR once you have it, you can use it. It all sort of happens simultaneously.

But if you " cannot gain any benefits from it " than it won't give you +1FR—since that's the benefit from it—so you're still not Force sensitive, right? So you don't get the benefits from it or any other Force talent you may have purchased along the way.

-EF

Too much hair splitting and semantics for me.

Maybe there's something in the F&D beta (you only have the play test doc, right?) that clears it up. In EotE it's pretty clear to me—you can only take the FR talent if you are Force-sensitive, which requires a FR1 or higher. Hopefully they'll include similar wording in the F&D core book.

-EF

Curious about 2 things:

In terms of relative power with the other games, does a starting character in F&D is the equivalent of a lets say bounty hunter + 200xp from Edge or are they deemed to be equal?

The one thing that "disturbs" me, and don't get me wrong I love everything I see so far, is that these "classes" suggest a training structure, a dogma etc. If the games are deemed to be between 4 and 5, there are no such things (that I am aware of). Are there rules to uncover ancient teachings and so on or does the force simply guides you in?

Thanks

A starting character in f&d is roughly the same power as a starting character from EotE or AoR, if not a little lower. They get an FR, but no powers, and fewer career skills.

The same of the classes are just that, names, nothing more. How you learn what you learn is up to you and your gm When he's designing the campaign, not the rules.

A quick Google search and I found a copy of the F&D play test doc, and page 194 it says " If a PC does not begin play with Force rating 1 (this generally will only happen if the player selects a career from Age of Rebellion or Edge of the Empire), the character will need to take one of the Force-sensitive universal specializations in those books to gain Force rating 1 and become a Force-sensitive. "

Also, page 94 states that " Force talents may not be used by characters who are not Force-sensitive. "

So in order to gain a FR1 you need to take one of the universal specs from EotE or AoR, or start with a F&D career.

-EF

I agree about the semantics, if the DM wants force users, you'll have them if not you're SOL.

I like the house rule someone posted a while back that if you want a force user, he should have it at creation; it cannot be acquired afterward.

That was probably me. I gave out more XP to start with but don't allow multiclassing, and Force-sensitivity is binary as it was in WEGd6. You either have it to begin with or you won't ever have it.

Call it the 'Kyle Katarn' rule or something

compared to the non-Force wielders

One day I'd still really like to see a game that doesn't need to serve any masters other than being a really good Jedi game. Oh well. Maybe on the next go around.

This does that. Honestly, this system looks like it can produce much better iterations of a full, well-rounded Jedi type character than any other RPG I've seen. Just start with more XP. Go look at what you can do if you've got 1,000 XP.

One question. Force Push/Slam is...? Move?

I think you've got a few ways that you can describe these effects with Move being one of them. Note that Niman offers versions of Push and Pull.

You cannot take the Force Rating talent if you don't have a Force Rating. This was established years ago with the Force Sensitive Exile spec in Edge of the Empire .

Page 275, EotE, " [A] character with aForce rating of one or higher is considered Force sensitive …talents and specialization trees that con only be taken by Force-sensitive characters will indicate this status in their description. "

The Force Rating talent is listed as a "Force Talent" in every tree it appears in in the F&D book.

-EF

Don't know if my PDF pages match the book so I won't bother, but in F&D "Note that a character without a FR (non Force-sensitive) can purchase a Force talent, however he cannot use it or gain any benefits from it."

So you can buy a FR in a F&D tree without being Force sensitive, and since it's a FR once you have it, you can use it. It all sort of happens simultaneously.

But if you " cannot gain any benefits from it " than it won't give you +1FR—since that's the benefit from it—so you're still not Force sensitive, right? So you don't get the benefits from it or any other Force talent you may have purchased along the way.

-EF

Eh. Ignore it.

A quick Google search and I found a copy of the F&D play test doc, and page 194 it says " If a PC does not begin play with Force rating 1 (this generally will only happen if the player selects a career from Age of Rebellion or Edge of the Empire), the character will need to take one of the Force-sensitive universal specializations in those books to gain Force rating 1 and become a Force-sensitive. "

Also, page 94 states that " Force talents may not be used by characters who are not Force-sensitive. "

So in order to gain a FR1 you need to take one of the universal specs from EotE or AoR, or start with a F&D career.

-EF

This is stupid; ignore it.

A quick Google search and I found a copy of the F&D play test doc, and page 194 it says " If a PC does not begin play with Force rating 1 (this generally will only happen if the player selects a career from Age of Rebellion or Edge of the Empire), the character will need to take one of the Force-sensitive universal specializations in those books to gain Force rating 1 and become a Force-sensitive. "

Also, page 94 states that " Force talents may not be used by characters who are not Force-sensitive. "

So in order to gain a FR1 you need to take one of the universal specs from EotE or AoR, or start with a F&D career.

-EF

You can play it however you like but what you're quoting comes from the Force powers section. I personally think it's just to keep Exile and Emergent from being extinct and it's a clunky mechanical design and nothing but an xp sink. All an AoR or EoE character has to do to bypass it is simply buy the universal spec, then they are FR1. Then they don't spend another xp in the universal spec and jump into the F&D one. That isn't terribly narrative and like I said is nothing more than an xp speed bump imo. I wouldn't bother.

The more I read of this the better I like it, the rules are so incredibly elegant, it's like they really learned from the WFRPG3 development and grew a system that is flexible, story oriented and lovely.

Someone suggested spending 1k xp for funsies, so I did, it was fun. Seems like you hit the "movie jedi" around 250 - 300 xp and Obi-Wan ala EP 2 around 500.

compared to the non-Force wielders

One day I'd still really like to see a game that doesn't need to serve any masters other than being a really good Jedi game. Oh well. Maybe on the next go around.

That's why there are games like Force Unleashed. For those with their power fantasies. You can sit at home alone enjoying your uber-Jediness or Force-power fantasies. RPGs work on the group dynamic where there is some equality amongst the players and they create enjoyable stories together. Maybe someday if you can find a way to embrace that you might be able to play. Until then there are solo video games and choose your own path books to keep you occupied.

What she said, but less mean.

"Makashi finish"

"Hawk Bat Swoop"

"Saber Swarm"

"Sarlacc Sweep"

What's sad is that I actually recognize all of those saber techniques from the time when I stated all seven forms to the "7 Seas" fencing system. /sigh /humblebrag

I love you.