...any predictions on the Obligation/Duty equivalent?
I still say Commitment. Obligation, Duty and Commitment are all synonyms for each other and would dovetail nicley.
thinking about F&D beta.
I think Destiny will work somewhat like Duty.
You can reduce it to get more ExP/credits, you gain Destiny by following your path,
and once you reach 100 it gets down to 0/10 again and you gain a permanent bonus/grow more powerful.
1) And yes, this is an RPG so a GM and players can do whatever they want to do. So a GM can just hand out a lightsaber to any GM in the party to complete their character archetype. But then that might introduce some imbalance at the beginning so the GM hands out other goodies to the other players too. This seems like an extraordinary measure though - just to give Jedi something that's a core part of the character archetype. I hope the F&D provides a balanced way of granting Jedi a lightsaber and the idea of the Duty/Obligation mechanic of F&D providing sounds cool as it would do what you suggest as a fundamental part of the system instead of leaving it up to each table to hash out.
2) I've also wondered what the central theme of F&D will be. I think exploration of the force and force traditions and Jedi/Sith artifacts etc would be cool. My wild guess is that F&D will be about good and evil, the light side and the dark side. EotE and AoR are built up around some sort of conflict - struggling to live on the edge of society or struggling against the Empire - and my guess is that F&D will be about the struggle in the force between light and dark (and between the Jedi and Sith).
1) Of course, if FaD introduced some guidelines for more high powered play, and how to include EotE and AoR characters in that mix, all the better - but I think that should be optional.
Also, the obligation/duty mechanic of FaD shouldn't - in my opinion - differ too much from EotE or AoR in what it provides. The big stuff in the other games are given to the group (be it starship or base of operation), and so I think it should be similar in FaD. It's about group resources when it comes to the big stuff: most likely a starship of some sort, but I'm hoping for something else too, something I haven't thought of or seen suggested yet.
Perhaps a starting thing, if such a thing should be included/added/available through the new mechanic they introduce, could be most of the parts needed to build a lightsaber, a defunct lighsaber, or perhaps an inferior lightsaber or lightsaber that only works every now and then (like running out of power on 3 threats and stuff like that). If going this route, the new mechanic should also perhaps offer other "traditional" (i.e. "Legends" force tradition) weapons and gear too, like that of the Zeison Sha, Jensaarai and/or Matukai and others.
I'm not overly against the idea, but in a mixed game group, it would provide the FaD characters with a definite power advantage as starting characters, but of course for a pure FaD group I'd assume that most careers and stuff would have access to similar boosts in power. I do prefer an equal starting place for each game though, as I'm pretty sure my players would look to all three games when searching for inspiration and options.
2) I think this is the most important bit of it all, because it in so many ways will provide guidelines for the game and what has been discussed here already. It seems, from what I can remember of the FaD blurb from way back when (and much of this could be based on a constructed memory rather than what was said there), that it's about stealth, remaining hidden, keeping traditions and teachings alive, attempting (perhaps) to revive the traditions of old, to build up resources and such for a time after the Empire (or after the Sith, whatever Ep VII presents us with in 491 days). Adding in stuff from the last episodes of "season 6" of TCW and Yoda's journey, we have lots to explore and enjoy, whether you enjoyed the Mortis story arc or not, it added a layer that has a lot of potential - for good, for bad, and a little bit of both.
I think the good/evil thing is going to be central certainly, the light/dark aspect of Star Wars is important at least for force sensitives. I also think this is, in some way, going to be tied to the new mechanic. I also have a feeling that the mechanic could add a Strain boost when activated - if the mechanic is a good thing that is - as it bolsters will, commitment (as some have suggested as a name for the new mechanic) and stuff like that. Of course, they could go a vastly different way, but I hope not.
I have no illusions that F&D will rectify the whole issue of Jedi Knights being downgraded to Jedi Monks, but Ima really hoping they don't embed that nonsense into the mechanics. In the specific time frame of this RPG, whatever the old order was has been swept away, and the players should be the authors of what form a new order, if any, should take.
I like the idea of a strain threshold boost, but the things is that that could easily interfere with/cancel out the Obligation penalty. I'm thinking it'll be something else...like, if a party's d100 roll comes up and hits a PC's "Force & Destiny Somesuch," something happens to the Destiny Point Pool. Or maybe it keys off the light/dark balance of the Destiny Pool.
I dunno. I just think it's gonna interact with the Destiny Pool in some way. If there even is a d100 roll at the beginning like in EotE and AoR.
Most of the people who buy the book won't have read the forums, so unless it was to say explicitly that the default character generation system is intended for people whose main concern is compatibility with the other two games and if instead you just want to have a fun time playing Jedi you should do something different most people wouldn't realise.
I have no illusions that F&D will rectify the whole issue of Jedi Knights being downgraded to Jedi Monks,
Aye. Jedi are monks but they are this kind of monk:-
1) And yes, this is an RPG so a GM and players can do whatever they want to do. So a GM can just hand out a lightsaber to any GM in the party to complete their character archetype. But then that might introduce some imbalance at the beginning so the GM hands out other goodies to the other players too. This seems like an extraordinary measure though - just to give Jedi something that's a core part of the character archetype. I hope the F&D provides a balanced way of granting Jedi a lightsaber and the idea of the Duty/Obligation mechanic of F&D providing sounds cool as it would do what you suggest as a fundamental part of the system instead of leaving it up to each table to hash out.
2) I've also wondered what the central theme of F&D will be. I think exploration of the force and force traditions and Jedi/Sith artifacts etc would be cool. My wild guess is that F&D will be about good and evil, the light side and the dark side. EotE and AoR are built up around some sort of conflict - struggling to live on the edge of society or struggling against the Empire - and my guess is that F&D will be about the struggle in the force between light and dark (and between the Jedi and Sith).
1) Of course, if FaD introduced some guidelines for more high powered play, and how to include EotE and AoR characters in that mix, all the better - but I think that should be optional.
Also, the obligation/duty mechanic of FaD shouldn't - in my opinion - differ too much from EotE or AoR in what it provides. The big stuff in the other games are given to the group (be it starship or base of operation), and so I think it should be similar in FaD. It's about group resources when it comes to the big stuff: most likely a starship of some sort, but I'm hoping for something else too, something I haven't thought of or seen suggested yet.
Perhaps a starting thing, if such a thing should be included/added/available through the new mechanic they introduce, could be most of the parts needed to build a lightsaber, a defunct lighsaber, or perhaps an inferior lightsaber or lightsaber that only works every now and then (like running out of power on 3 threats and stuff like that). If going this route, the new mechanic should also perhaps offer other "traditional" (i.e. "Legends" force tradition) weapons and gear too, like that of the Zeison Sha, Jensaarai and/or Matukai and others.
I'm not overly against the idea, but in a mixed game group, it would provide the FaD characters with a definite power advantage as starting characters, but of course for a pure FaD group I'd assume that most careers and stuff would have access to similar boosts in power. I do prefer an equal starting place for each game though, as I'm pretty sure my players would look to all three games when searching for inspiration and options.
2) I think this is the most important bit of it all, because it in so many ways will provide guidelines for the game and what has been discussed here already. It seems, from what I can remember of the FaD blurb from way back when (and much of this could be based on a constructed memory rather than what was said there), that it's about stealth, remaining hidden, keeping traditions and teachings alive, attempting (perhaps) to revive the traditions of old, to build up resources and such for a time after the Empire (or after the Sith, whatever Ep VII presents us with in 491 days). Adding in stuff from the last episodes of "season 6" of TCW and Yoda's journey, we have lots to explore and enjoy, whether you enjoyed the Mortis story arc or not, it added a layer that has a lot of potential - for good, for bad, and a little bit of both.
I think the good/evil thing is going to be central certainly, the light/dark aspect of Star Wars is important at least for force sensitives. I also think this is, in some way, going to be tied to the new mechanic. I also have a feeling that the mechanic could add a Strain boost when activated - if the mechanic is a good thing that is - as it bolsters will, commitment (as some have suggested as a name for the new mechanic) and stuff like that. Of course, they could go a vastly different way, but I hope not.
1) To be clear I agree that F&D characters should start the game on the same footing as characters built from the other core books and that a more advanced starting character rule set should be optional.
That's why I like the idea of the Duty/Obligation mechanic offering up a lightsaber because if the mechanic us used then all characters - even those created using the other core books - will get benefit from it.
While this would be a change from EotE and AoR by offering individual gear instead of a group resource this might fit with the theme of destiny - each person has their own destiny.
If F&D doesn't go this direction and does end up offering a group resource I wonder what it will be - with AoR it's obvious what group resources fit with the theme of the book and with EotE it's fairly obvious as well but with F&D much less so.
2) I remember something somewhat similar - the F&D characters being the "inheritors" of the Jedi (and other traditions?) so a theme of struggling to revive a tradition and be an exemplar of it would be cool too.
Well tomorrow is Gen-Con so I guess we will find out ☺
1) To be clear I agree that F&D characters should start the game on the same footing as characters built from the other core books and that a more advanced starting character rule set should be optional.
That's why I like the idea of the Duty/Obligation mechanic offering up a lightsaber because if the mechanic us used then all characters - even those created using the other core books - will get benefit from it.
While this would be a change from EotE and AoR by offering individual gear instead of a group resource this might fit with the theme of destiny - each person has their own destiny.
If F&D doesn't go this direction and does end up offering a group resource I wonder what it will be - with AoR it's obvious what group resources fit with the theme of the book and with EotE it's fairly obvious as well but with F&D much less so.
2) I remember something somewhat similar - the F&D characters being the "inheritors" of the Jedi (and other traditions?) so a theme of struggling to revive a tradition and be an exemplar of it would be cool too.
1) The only issue I have with this - and generally I agree with you here - is that it potentially "forces" player groups to go with the FaD mechanic if including careers from FaD in the other games, but of course, that's not really a big issue, easily solved I'd assume.
Although, I really do hope they have a group oriented step in the creation process, beyond the new obligation/duty mechanic. Be it starship, base, safe house, contacts, a mentor something along those lines. Something to let them move about, or at least a place to stay.
2) Yes.
OMG..........tick tick tick..................is it here yet?!?!?
OMG..........tick tick tick..................is it here yet?!?!?
I saw "Son of Skywalker" on the main page (referring to a card game expansion in the smaller subtext) and nearly had a heart attack.
1) To be clear I agree that F&D characters should start the game on the same footing as characters built from the other core books and that a more advanced starting character rule set should be optional.
That's why I like the idea of the Duty/Obligation mechanic offering up a lightsaber because if the mechanic us used then all characters - even those created using the other core books - will get benefit from it.
While this would be a change from EotE and AoR by offering individual gear instead of a group resource this might fit with the theme of destiny - each person has their own destiny.
If F&D doesn't go this direction and does end up offering a group resource I wonder what it will be - with AoR it's obvious what group resources fit with the theme of the book and with EotE it's fairly obvious as well but with F&D much less so.
2) I remember something somewhat similar - the F&D characters being the "inheritors" of the Jedi (and other traditions?) so a theme of struggling to revive a tradition and be an exemplar of it would be cool too.
1) The only issue I have with this - and generally I agree with you here - is that it potentially "forces" player groups to go with the FaD mechanic if including careers from FaD in the other games, but of course, that's not really a big issue, easily solved I'd assume.
Although, I really do hope they have a group oriented step in the creation process, beyond the new obligation/duty mechanic. Be it starship, base, safe house, contacts, a mentor something along those lines. Something to let them move about, or at least a place to stay.
2) Yes.
A group oriented step does seem very likely. That's one thing I like about the FFG system - it explicitly includes an organizing principle for the party.
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4985
Gencon announcement..............can't be long now....................
By this time tomorrow there will be no more forums. Just a muddy wasteland of ashes and tears...
I like the idea of a strain threshold boost, but the things is that that could easily interfere with/cancel out the Obligation penalty. I'm thinking it'll be something else...like, if a party's d100 roll comes up and hits a PC's "Force & Destiny Somesuch," something happens to the Destiny Point Pool. Or maybe it keys off the light/dark balance of the Destiny Pool.
I dunno. I just think it's gonna interact with the Destiny Pool in some way. If there even is a d100 roll at the beginning like in EotE and AoR.
Fair point, but I think the cancelling out of the Obligation thing could make sense though, but that's me
the mere presence and commitment/destiny/whatnot of the relevant character negates the stress caused by the obligation. This is wild speculation, but I like the idea.
By this time tomorrow there will be no more forums. Just a muddy wasteland of ashes and tears...
You know, despite the vitriol and hyperbole from this thread, I think that in the end most people will be pleased with the final result. FFG has done right by this line thus far, and shown that they have good ideas and can create a good game.
Of course, there will be comments back and forth about how x detail should be y detail. We are still doing that for EotE and AoR, and the consensus on those games is largely positive. It's what you do on gaming forums.
Overall, though, I'm anticipating that most people here will end up liking it regardless of where they stand on Jedi/generic or pro/con starting lightsaber. It would surprise me a great deal if Force and Destiny were poorly received.
By this time tomorrow there will be no more forums. Just a muddy wasteland of ashes and tears...
You know, despite the vitriol and hyperbole from this thread, I think that in the end most people will be pleased with the final result. FFG has done right by this line thus far, and shown that they have good ideas and can create a good game.
Of course, there will be comments back and forth about how x detail should be y detail. We are still doing that for EotE and AoR, and the consensus on those games is largely positive. It's what you do on gaming forums.
Overall, though, I'm anticipating that most people here will end up liking it regardless of where they stand on Jedi/generic or pro/con starting lightsaber. It would surprise me a great deal if Force and Destiny were poorly received.
Sometimes a jestful tone doesn't translate well I guess.
I think with the exception of a few specific people it's going to go over very well, and I look forward to the actual gameplay oriented discussions that will soon begin.
I don't think doc meant you.......we all know who...............
I'm really not sure why people think F&D is going to be 'epic play for EOE/AOR'.
I'm not sure how they are going to balance Force-users, but it would surprise me that starting F&D characters were any different from the PCs we see in the other two games. They've stated several times that the games are intended to be compatible, and that means starting off at the same level.
I would be astonished if they let characters start off with a 10k lightsaber.
There are things they had playtesters do that imply it QUITE strongly. I've just said more than I should.
By this time tomorrow there will be no more forums.
You mean the de facto DDoS attack from everyone spamming the "refresh" button?
By this time tomorrow there will be no more forums. Just a muddy wasteland of ashes and tears...
You know, despite the vitriol and hyperbole from this thread, I think that in the end most people will be pleased with the final result. FFG has done right by this line thus far, and shown that they have good ideas and can create a good game.
Of course, there will be comments back and forth about how x detail should be y detail. We are still doing that for EotE and AoR, and the consensus on those games is largely positive. It's what you do on gaming forums.
Overall, though, I'm anticipating that most people here will end up liking it regardless of where they stand on Jedi/generic or pro/con starting lightsaber. It would surprise me a great deal if Force and Destiny were poorly received.
Sometimes a jestful tone doesn't translate well I guess.
I think with the exception of a few specific people it's going to go over very well, and I look forward to the actual gameplay oriented discussions that will soon begin.
That was not directed at you. I was just using your post as a starting point to talk about the thread as a whole.
If anything I was going for a verbal "group hug."
Yeah group hug!
I still say the release of the book/beta is going to be like the destruction of Alderaan. It will be like millions of voices crying out suddenly then silence.
I still say the release of the book/beta is going to be like the destruction of Alderaan. It will be like millions of voices crying out suddenly then silence.
Yeah, because we'll be able to put these circular argument threads behind us and get on with actually enjoying the game. If there's anything nerds like more than arguing with each other on forums, it's arguing with each other over the gaming table.