" Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful,” he says. “But he ended up losing his legs and an arm and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there’s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he’s maybe 20 percent less than him. So that isn’t what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-Wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the Dark Side. You’ll see, as this goes on, Luke is faced with the same issues and practically the same scenes that Anakin is faced with. Anakin says yes and Luke says no. " -Lucas

Not that I feel the RPG should in any way reflect this. Unless it's a roleplaying hook someone wants to play around with, but even then, I don't think it really needs rules.

" Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful,” he says. “But he ended up losing his legs and an arm and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there’s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he’s maybe 20 percent less than him. So that isn’t what the Emperor had in mind. He wanted this really super guy, but that got derailed by Obi-Wan. So he finds that, with Luke, he can get a more primo version if he can turn Luke to the Dark Side. You’ll see, as this goes on, Luke is faced with the same issues and practically the same scenes that Anakin is faced with. Anakin says yes and Luke says no. " -Lucas

Not that I feel the RPG should in any way reflect this. Unless it's a roleplaying hook someone wants to play around with, but even then, I don't think it really needs rules.

Any idea what the time frame that George said that is? I'm curious now.

The whole bit with "cybernetics impede the ability to use the Force" was really a WEG creation to try and justify why Vader wasn't using bad-ass Force abilities in the films as well as why Palpatine would want to replace his "loyal" servant with Luke. Guess that particularly writer missed the point that Luke was young, (mostly) whole, and hearty, where Vader was a functional cripple in a walking iron lung. Most evil tyrants, when looking for a successor, tend to go for the young, hale and hearty option over the aging, badly-wounded warrior.

Got a citation establishing that the concept was introduced by WEG? I seem to recall a quote by Old Flannelbeard himself that implies that the loss of limbs leads to a decrease in Force potential.

Dunno about Uncle G, but the WEG remarks on the topic were in what? Cracken's Field Guide, 1st Ed?

Yep, that's where I remember first seeing it, as that was the sourcebook that really dealt with "cybernetic upgrades" of the degree that Vader had undergone.

Plus, Lucas has flip-flopped his opinion on various bits of Star Wars lore enough times in the past that we're probably better off taking what he's said in the past with a few grains of salt.

My Fav is that even well into their 2nd Edition WEG was still printing references to the field guide. It was just that nifty.

The source is an article called "The Last Battle" published in Vanity Fair. I haven't actually read said article as a quick google search didn't come up with anything. I'd imagine it was during the post-RotS interview cycle.

Thing is, the "cybernetics impeding Force use" is such a deeply ingrained notion that I wouldn't be surprised if it resurfaced in actual canon. After all, how many things appearing first in WEG have we seen in later films & TV shows?

Thing is, the "cybernetics impeding Force use" is such a deeply ingrained notion that I wouldn't be surprised if it resurfaced in actual canon. After all, how many things appearing first in WEG have we seen in later films & TV shows?

Thing is, the "cybernetics impeding Force use" is such a deeply ingrained notion that I wouldn't be surprised if it resurfaced in actual canon. After all, how many things appearing first in WEG have we seen in later films & TV shows?

Thing is, the "cybernetics impeding Force use" is such a deeply ingrained notion that I wouldn't be surprised if it resurfaced in actual canon. After all, how many things appearing first in WEG have we seen in later films & TV shows?

Too many.

If the plot leaks turn out to be true on the new movies a whole bunch of what's been written before in games, books, and comics has been tossed out the window.

Thing is, the "cybernetics impeding Force use" is such a deeply ingrained notion that I wouldn't be surprised if it resurfaced in actual canon. After all, how many things appearing first in WEG have we seen in later films & TV shows?

Thing is, the "cybernetics impeding Force use" is such a deeply ingrained notion that I wouldn't be surprised if it resurfaced in actual canon. After all, how many things appearing first in WEG have we seen in later films & TV shows?

Too many.

If the plot leaks turn out to be true on the new movies a whole bunch of what's been written before in games, books, and comics has been tossed out the window.

I'll post a pic of me with a light saber on my head if the leaks turn out to be true. That said I still believe at least 80% of the EU is toast.

Yeah, I wouldn't count on much of the post-RotJ EU to resurface in the films. Admittedly, I'd love it if things like Thrawn, Mara Jade, and Ben Skywalker eventually made it into the films... but I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah, I wouldn't count on much of the post-RotJ EU to resurface in the films. Admittedly, I'd love it if things like Thrawn, Mara Jade, and Ben Skywalker eventually made it into the films... but I'm not holding my breath.

Or JJ could be a triple jerk and mention stuff like that in the same vague terms as that bounty hunter on Ord Mantell. Just leave entire swaths of the EU in perpetual non-legends-non-canon.

FYI: Were it me, I would totally do that.

I'll post a pic of me with a light saber on my head if the leaks turn out to be true.

While we're on the subject, I'd just like to send out a friendly reminder to everyone that any such leaks should certainly be surrounded by spoiler tags.

Just felt it needed to be said.

I'm looking forward to simply have it in hand for the content and the ability to integrate the Force more fully into my games. I'll pick and choose as I like, but I always have with any games I have bought.

For my games, I've been digging the new canon declaration: nothing except for what's in the movies and TV shows count. So as far as I'm concerned, Vader is just as powerful as Anakin was -- he was still choking people with his mind over a video phone. If he's gotten weaker over time, it's because he hasn't been training and/or has been cut off from the Light side, or he's just getting old.

Of course, Vader only showed up for a split second in one of my games, so it's kind of a moot point.

I am starting to think I might get a beta book of F&D, now. I'm not sure I can wait long enough to see the final book and find out what the story is.

As with so many things, The Force Unleashed does Vader... correctly.

As with so many things, The Force Unleashed does Vader... correctly.

Actually the ankles are off so he walks like he's wearing high heels (they try and hide it behind dead stormtroopers and wookies), the mesh for his head is off, so it's too narrow, and the eyes don't have a very good shader on them looking kind of hollow, his cape doesn't have a high enough poly count for the cloth simulation to work, and even then the simulation isn't very good, resulting in the cape moving very mechanically and the collision detection is off as well resulting in clipping and sticking especially on the robes, oh and there's numerous other problems with the overall modeling and texturing (belt and chest boxes are wrong, chest armor is too silver, ect).

They did get his codpiece about right... so you know... small victories...

So..what species do you think we'll see in the Beta / Core Rulebook?

I wonder if we'll get droids. Certainly droids can have a destiny...I would say that R2-D2 is evidence of that.

Humans are a given. Givins, on the other hand, are not a given.

Do you think we'll see any of the following?

• Cerean
• Givin (since I already mentioned them, I would feel bad leaving them out)
• Gotal
• Shistavenen
• Defel
• Snivvian
• Dresselian
• Whiphid
• Talz

I suspect in order of most likely to least likely:

Human

Twi'Lek

Droid

Cerean

Zabrak

Kel Dor

Togruta

Quaren

Humans, Twi'Leks and Cereans are probably in, Kel-Dor's are probably also good to go. I don't think it will have droids, since this is centred around the force and they can't have a force rating.

What I'm wondering is how they are going to scale the power of a beginning jedi since FR 2 is a padawan learner will that be the starting rank for most characters or will it be 3. Will they have access to more force skills from the beginning, starting with Move, Enhance etc for free?

What I'm wondering is how they are going to scale the power of a beginning jedi since FR 2 is a padawan learner will that be the starting rank for most characters or will it be 3. Will they have access to more force skills from the beginning, starting with Move, Enhance etc for free?

Keep in mind that those numbers are from when the system was still in its infancy. If that chart even shows up in Force and Destiny, there's a very good chance that it will be different.

There's also the matter that a Padawan Learner was someone that had been trained as a Jedi from very early childhood, if not infancy.

Most Jedi-to-be are more likely to follow Luke or Ezra's path and start their training at a much later age. Thus, for them having only a Force Rating of 1 makes sense, as they don't have the lifetime of training that Jedi such as Obi-Wan or Ahsoka Tano did. Anakin started later, but he cheated via the whole "Chosen One" schtick.

I agree on Humans and Twi'leks. Zabraks are a likely choice as well, as are Togruta due to Ahsoka Tano's popularity. Gand are also an option, given they've got a notable Force tradition in the Findsman, even if they've already appeared in the EotE core rulebook.

As for Droids, that's going to depend on if any of the careers are orientated towards non-F/S folks. If there are none-F/S careers, then we're likely to see droids. I figure there'll be at least one career that caters to non-F/S, so droids are likely in.

As for the other two species... hard to say. If the species have been determined well in advance as Sam Stewart alluded to during one of his O66 podcast appearances, then fan demand for such species as Cereans and Kel Dor really won't play a part, at least not for the corebook.

Totally, I also think Kel Dor will make the cut.

Twi'lek is an interesting choice...Twi'lek Jedi are certainly strongly represented under the Legends banner. I didn't think they'd make the cut in the CRB, since they are already in the EotE CRB. Figured they'd make an appearance in a supplement.

I didn't consider Zabrak, but that would make a lot of sense, as would Togruta.

Humans, Twi'Leks and Cereans are probably in, Kel-Dor's are probably also good to go. I don't think it will have droids, since this is centred around the force and they can't have a force rating.

I know there's a Force aspect, but notice that the title also includes a big "AND DESTINY." This is the reason I strongly suspect that it won't be ALL Force users, and things like Droids could well be included, since they are so central to the Star Wars experience (droids accompany Rebels, smugglers, and Jedi; they help out in a variety of ways and, without them, each of those groups of characters would be up the proverbial creek without a paddle). But whatever it is, I am sure FFG will do it well. They have an excellent track record.

It would be a long shot, but my fingers are cossed for Kaleesh, even if they appear in a future supliment.

If it didn't happen in Force and Destiny, my money would be on a soldier or Commander supliment.

I agree on Humans and Twi'leks. Zabraks are a likely choice as well, as are Togruta due to Ahsoka Tano's popularity. Gand are also an option, given they've got a notable Force tradition in the Findsman, even if they've already appeared in the EotE core rulebook.

As for Droids, that's going to depend on if any of the careers are orientated towards non-F/S folks. If there are none-F/S careers, then we're likely to see droids. I figure there'll be at least one career that caters to non-F/S, so droids are likely in.

As for the other two species... hard to say. If the species have been determined well in advance as Sam Stewart alluded to during one of his O66 podcast appearances, then fan demand for such species as Cereans and Kel Dor really won't play a part, at least not for the corebook.

None of the Careers are going to be geared towards force use. it is going to work the way it works now. Trust me.

It is not a force source book. It is a core rule book that will cover more force use. But it has to be able to stand on its own. it has to be able to run Han,R2D2, C3P0, Lando etc. In addition to running Luke on the power level seen in Return of the Jedi.

I'm hoping for Quermian; the undeveloped race of the Jedi Master Council. Poor Yareal Poof didn't get a chance to shine in "The Phantom Menace".