Seems relevant.

I think it would require a little more explanation for me to understand how that is relevant.

Compared to that, stuff like

Seems pretty tame, is all.

Well Erik, if we are going to link fun Lightsaber duels, I submit for your (the general public's) approval:

Another quote by Kreia that seems relevant here:

There is much weight, much craving attached to such a tiny thing of light. For the male, it seems to have inordinate importance. But we shall leave such male preoccupations for philosophers and cultural historians.

Man, once the beta comes out, what are we going to yell at each other about?

Man, once the beta comes out, what are we going to yell at each other about?

The beta.

Man, once the beta comes out, what are we going to yell at each other about?

I can't say for certain, but I have several guesses.

I mean really Starkiller ain't got nothing on Link.

You keep assuming things. The problem is all of your suggestions throw off the balance they have astablished.

Keep in mind... FFG is the same company that produced 5 compatible games with VAST power differences and one experience scale...

A 1st rank Rogue Trader character is about 5th rank in Dark Heresy. And a Deathwatch 1st rank character is about 8th rank in DH terms. XP for XP, they're about equal... but they don't start at the same XP totals! (Deathwatch is 13000 XP, RT is 5000 XP, and DH is 400 XP at start) And they are all one unified game system.

Wow, so much hurt.

Donovan and I have had some, err, 'prickly' debates in the past, but I respect the guy.

(and his article was written on April 1st, so I got it right away that he was teasing us...)

And 'One Ring' does have player magic, it's just the subtle things like dwarven locking runes and elf sleep magic, rather than fireballs and flashy stuff... in keeping with the Tolkien mythos.

One Ring has much more flashy stuff in the Rivendell sourcebook... One of my players is using a nasty magical blade now... It glows in the presence of wights and high elves!

You keep assuming things. The problem is all of your suggestions throw off the balance they have astablished.

Keep in mind... FFG is the same company that produced 5 compatible games with VAST power differences and one experience scale...

A 1st rank Rogue Trader character is about 5th rank in Dark Heresy. And a Deathwatch 1st rank character is about 8th rank in DH terms. XP for XP, they're about equal... but they don't start at the same XP totals! (Deathwatch is 13000 XP, RT is 5000 XP, and DH is 400 XP at start) And they are all one unified game system.

And as repeaditly stated FFG does not want to recreate that situation but make them directly compatible.

I know that there are people not fond of the d20 system but it had 1 rule that i think would make a good addition to this rule-set: Implants impede your use of the force.

Back then it was a handicap to your Use the Force-check, but since we do not really have that here how would you simulate that?

You could do something like "If you have half your Brawn or more in Cybernetics, all 2 dot force sides on the force die count as 1 dot". Its not as granular, but still would affect things. Wouldn't affect say, Luke, with just the one hand (well, unless you think Luke is Brawn 2), but would affect Vader.

Or for something a bit more granular: For each cybernetic you have, count one force die that comes up as two dots as one dot.

Man, once the beta comes out, what are we going to yell at each other about?

I can't say for certain, but I have several guesses.

"OMG The space combat system that's set in stone in two other core books is so hard to understand because it doesn't' use minis and a grid. FFG needs to just start completely over from the very beginning."

Search your feelings.... you know it to be true....

Lightsabers are OP.

You could do something like "If you have half your Brawn or more in Cybernetics, all 2 dot force sides on the force die count as 1 dot". Its not as granular, but still would affect things. Wouldn't affect say, Luke, with just the one hand (well, unless you think Luke is Brawn 2), but would affect Vader.

Or for something a bit more granular: For each cybernetic you have, count one force die that comes up as two dots as one dot.

Would completely up end things, the Force dice are weighted to the dark side, and the double pips are weighted to the light side. The %s would be totally buggered.

Would completely up end things, the Force dice are weighted to the dark side, and the double pips are weighted to the light side. The %s would be totally buggered.

I actually intended that. I felt thematically, cybernetics being more detrimental to light side users made sense. Cybernetics are a short cut, the fast way.

I would probably use the "if over 1/2" rule though, so that for instance, replacing a hand that got chopped off wouldn't be a big deal for anyone Brawn 3 or higher, while purposely getting all your limbs replaced for stats would be detrimental.

This also keeps Vader from being TOO gimped by the penalty.

So being handicapped and trying to compensate for it equals the dark side? The notion assumes everyone gets cybernetics as an enhancement.

That and the rule is unsupported canonically anyway imo. Luke's powers clearly grew enormously from episode 5 to 6 without any additional help from a trainer with the bionic hand and no instruction how to compensate if it was an issue. He used his bionic hand in conjunction with the Force to grab the Gamorreans pistol in Jabba's palace. Vader had a pair of legs, an arm and lungs replaced and when he wakes from that surgery proceeds to crush everything in the room.

Messing with the Force dice up ends mechanics in this game, and the rule itself was a poorly thought out one in an old RPG.

Except I imagine Luke is not Brawn 2. I would put him at Brawn 3 at least, especially post movies. And he had one cybernetic. Or if you want to you could have it based on half Willpower rather than half Brawn and change it to explicitly over half rather than half or equal. Then a Willpower 4 character could have 2 cybernetics before it even affects his Force power rolls.

And Vader probably has a huge Force Rating.

And it was a suggestion to someone who LIKED the idea, so whether you can directly support it by canon is beside the point. Segara liked the idea, so I gave a suggestion. (Though it is mentioned that Vader had a higher potential before being injured and being replaced with mostly machine, not in Canon Canon, but in Legends Canon).

(and if we want to go with rules that don't exactly match the canon, I'm not exactly seeing pre-Vader Anakin as actually having the Brawn to have that many cybernetics anyway).

Reading through the last few pages of the thread, I really do think people were misinterpreting what Emperor Norton was saying about the relationship of Force Rating and starting XP. I pretty much agree with him 100% on that.

And then there was butt hurt about getting misinterpreted, butt hurt over getting butt hurt, butt hurt over stuff from other threads, butt hurt about how to properly conduct an argument, etc. Everybody getting butt hurt. My butt began to hurt from just reading it.

The whole bit with "cybernetics impede the ability to use the Force" was really a WEG creation to try and justify why Vader wasn't using bad-ass Force abilities in the films as well as why Palpatine would want to replace his "loyal" servant with Luke. Guess that particularly writer missed the point that Luke was young, (mostly) whole, and hearty, where Vader was a functional cripple in a walking iron lung. Most evil tyrants, when looking for a successor, tend to go for the young, hale and hearty option over the aging, badly-wounded warrior.

I think there was even recent material in the EU (though it's now in the Legends category) that suggested a lot of Vader's reduced strength in the Force was ultimately psychological, due to his intense self-loathing and sense of guilt at causing Padme's death. There's a pretty good scene in the Darth Vader: Rise of the Dark Lord novel (set shortly after Episode III) where Vader reflects on how he and Sidious really don't look like they won; Sidious is now horribly deformed, and Vader is.... well, Vader, having gone from a handsome and respected Jedi Knight to a maimed and burned armored figure that inspires fear rather than admiration. It's a sign of him wondering if what he did was really worth it, and that's likely something that plagued him for the rest of his life, with him committing further atrocities simply because he felt that if he was already damned, then he might as well go for broke.

There was also a bit (don't recall the source) where Palpatine speculated that if Vader got over his self-loathing and fully embraced the power of that Vader's hate could give him, then Vader would have indeed reached his full potential and become a worthy successor.

Well Erik, if we are going to link fun Lightsaber duels, I submit for your (the general public's) approval:

I'd also recommend this one as well:

The whole bit with "cybernetics impede the ability to use the Force" was really a WEG creation to try and justify why Vader wasn't using bad-ass Force abilities in the films as well as why Palpatine would want to replace his "loyal" servant with Luke. Guess that particularly writer missed the point that Luke was young, (mostly) whole, and hearty, where Vader was a functional cripple in a walking iron lung. Most evil tyrants, when looking for a successor, tend to go for the young, hale and hearty option over the aging, badly-wounded warrior.

Got a citation establishing that the concept was introduced by WEG? I seem to recall a quote by Old Flannelbeard himself that implies that the loss of limbs leads to a decrease in Force potential.

However, after all of his limbs were severed, and he was extremely burned on Mustafar, he lost much of his Force potential. As Darth Vader, Skywalker was believed to have had roughly 80% of the strength of the Emperor. Had he sustained none of his injuries on Mustafar, he would have been twice as powerful.

There are variations on the quote floating around the internet, but the various places I've been able to find cite Empire of Dreams as the source.

The whole bit with "cybernetics impede the ability to use the Force" was really a WEG creation to try and justify why Vader wasn't using bad-ass Force abilities in the films as well as why Palpatine would want to replace his "loyal" servant with Luke. Guess that particularly writer missed the point that Luke was young, (mostly) whole, and hearty, where Vader was a functional cripple in a walking iron lung. Most evil tyrants, when looking for a successor, tend to go for the young, hale and hearty option over the aging, badly-wounded warrior.

Got a citation establishing that the concept was introduced by WEG? I seem to recall a quote by Old Flannelbeard himself that implies that the loss of limbs leads to a decrease in Force potential.

Dunno about Uncle G, but the WEG remarks on the topic were in what? Cracken's Field Guide, 1st Ed?

The whole bit with "cybernetics impede the ability to use the Force" was really a WEG creation to try and justify why Vader wasn't using bad-ass Force abilities in the films as well as why Palpatine would want to replace his "loyal" servant with Luke. Guess that particularly writer missed the point that Luke was young, (mostly) whole, and hearty, where Vader was a functional cripple in a walking iron lung. Most evil tyrants, when looking for a successor, tend to go for the young, hale and hearty option over the aging, badly-wounded warrior.

Got a citation establishing that the concept was introduced by WEG? I seem to recall a quote by Old Flannelbeard himself that implies that the loss of limbs leads to a decrease in Force potential.

Dunno about Uncle G, but the WEG remarks on the topic were in what? Cracken's Field Guide, 1st Ed?

Yep, that's where I remember first seeing it, as that was the sourcebook that really dealt with "cybernetic upgrades" of the degree that Vader had undergone.

Plus, Lucas has flip-flopped his opinion on various bits of Star Wars lore enough times in the past that we're probably better off taking what he's said in the past with a few grains of salt.