Why should I care? Sure, they accuse you of whining and whatnot, but imitating them and continuing such a discourse isn't helping anyone,

If you don't care that he was being insulting, then you shouldn't care that I was either. And if you didn't care that I was being insulting, you wouldn't have bothered to comment on it.

If you had come in and said that there is no reason for the rudeness on both sides, I'd probably agree with you. I admit that I should probably keep from stooping to the level of people attacking me, but hey it happens, and I'm sure you have done it before as well.

But this whole thing is the equivalent of being flagged for a personal foul in a football game when you punch someone back after they punched you. You want to call a personal foul? You do it to both sides. Unless there is some reason you truly think retaliation is worse than attacking someone unprovoked.

If folks honestly feel that Norton is attacking them, report those posts to the Moderators. Better than clogging the thread up with a lot of useless bile on either side.

Or, simply add him to your Ignore list. I did that a while ago, and it's worked pretty well.

Or, simply add him to your Ignore list. I did that a while ago, and it's worked pretty well.

I had wondered why Morningfire had stopped responding to me when I clearly pointed out that there had to be an error somewhere in the Sentinel Landing Craft entry (either the statblock or description), and that his clear attacks on people who were saying there was was ludicrous.

Now I know.

(Also, seems a bit sketchy to comment on the content of someone's posts when you can't even see them to judge the veracity of the claims).

But you do invalidate their argument by calling them delusional, how do you not get that?

"If you believe that they won't include X in the game, then you are delusional."

I am not invalidating an argument by calling them delusional. I'm saying their argument makes them delusional (at least in regard to the argument).

If I said that they were delusional, and that was why they could not be right THAT would be an ad hominem.

Not to mention that I was addressing a hypothetical person, not copperbell. I don't even believe copperbell disagrees with the if part of the sentence, I think he misunderstood my position due to a lack of bothering to read my posts.

Anyway. I'm bowing out. You clearly don't understand what an ad hominem is. I have no problem copping to being rude in response to rudeness (which I should not have done, mostly because it drags the thread down, not because I feel the need to be polite to those being rude to me), but I was not arguing fallaciously.

So back to talking about what it's actually about, namely F&D.

I found a blog talking about how there wouldn't be any Jedi in F&D because of the Mouse House having put an embargo on all things force and games and so on (I think it was Donovan Morningfire's). Anyone got more info about that that?

I think it is pretty clear that if they do that fans of the system are going to go insane.

I mean, people were angry enough about it being left for last (not myself, personally I was OK with the split, though would have preferred AoR first , but no biggie), but if the Star Wars FFG system never has a way to play Jedi, this will not end well. Even I might get pretty pissy about that one.

I don't disagree there, I might get more than a "tad" miffed myself (as in my holding off buying more books until I see the beta). That said (not to give them any good ideas) "One Ring" the new LotR RPG doesn't have player magic in it, so it's not like it can't be done... It's just... Well...

That article was in jest. It was done not too long after Disney buying LucasArts, if I'm not mistaken.

Lack of citable sources did make me go "heeeem", but still, one had to ask the question. I do wonder how they will handle lightsaber forms?

Also, seems a bit sketchy to comment on the content of someone's posts when you can't even see them to judge the veracity of the claims.

The option is still there to view your posts if I so choose. And upon seeing the posts of UncleArkie and JegerGryte (who I know to be a fair and reasonable individual), I did view such posts, and have viewed other posts of yours to see if I should take you off my Ignore list.

Given your responses to those that disagree with you, as well as the above juvenile comment, you've proven that those blasting you had a very valid point, and that you still have nothing of value to say in this or any other thread.

So back to talking about what it's actually about, namely F&D.

I found a blog talking about how there wouldn't be any Jedi in F&D because of the Mouse House having put an embargo on all things force and games and so on (I think it was Donovan Morningfire's). Anyone got more info about that that?

That was an April Fool's Joke that Brian "Fiddleback" Casey and I cooked up. At one point, if you clicked on the link at the bottom of the article, it took you to a clip of CGI Yoda dancing while informing the ready that such articles (mine and Fiddy's about the initial EotE sourcebook being based upon the Star Wars Holiday Special) were jokes.

I don't disagree there, I might get more than a "tad" miffed myself (as in my holding off buying more books until I see the beta). That said (not to give them any good ideas) "One Ring" the new LotR RPG doesn't have player magic in it, so it's not like it can't be done... It's just... Well...

Well, with the One Ring RPG, the reason there's a lack of "flashy" magic for the PCs is because the designers are staying very close to Tolkien's material regarding the Third Age. The only person that used "magic" as most people would define it was Gandalf. Good-guy magic in Middle Earth is generally meant to be something subtle and unobtrusive. It's the bad guys, and occasionally Gandalf, that go for the flashier magic, with Gandalf really only breaking out the magic when he's directly confronting servants of the enemy we was sent to Middle-Earth to oppose.

While it is possible that Force and Destiny will have a career (maybe two) that caters to the non-Force users, the fact is that folks that want to play mundane characters do already have two core rulebooks to draw from. It's perhaps a bit like the old World of Darkness core books in that if a group is playing Werewolf: the Apocalpyse or Vampire: the Masquerade, then the PCs are going to be werewolves or vampires. A group of PCs playing EotE are going to largely be operating on the fringe of the galaxy in the galactic underworld, while a group of PCs playing AoR are going to be members of the Rebel Alliance and generally working to oppose/defeat the Empire.

So to keep with the oWoD example, Force and Destiny is more likely to be akin to Mage: the Ascension where the PCs are generally going to be mages rather than mundanes. There may be options to play a mundane character in FaD, but much as with Mage: the Ascension, the focus is going to be more on playing Force users, so it would make sense to have PCs that are Force users as the default. And FFG can easily add a sidebar that essentially says "If you've got a PC in your group that's more interested in playing the likes of Han Solo and Lando Calrissian, or Princess Leia and Wedge Antilles, check out Edge of the Empire or Age of Rebellion." This way, Force and Destiny can stand on its own to cater to those groups that want to predominately play Force users, while those folks not interested in such characters have further options to explore.

Given your responses to those that disagree with you, as well as the above juvenile comment, you've proven that those blasting you had a very valid point, and that you still have nothing of value to say in this or any other thread.

Oh please, you are easily one of the rudest people on the board, consistently accusing people of "gnashing their teeth" and overreacting to people giving mild complaints. And here you go again, dragging up a part of the thread that was over to get one last little swipe in. After everyone else moved the **** on.

Hell, the one of the first times (and for those playing at home, he had one post that he edited out that read: "Screw you, and the horse you and Emperor Norton rode in on" to Desslock) I ran into you pulling this routine, I got PMs from GSA people assuring me that not all of the GSA are dicks, and not to judge them based on you. But just pretend you are so reasonable.

Nvm, Screw this. I'm out. The headaches involved in being called out repeatedly for being the slightest bit rude to someone who was a **** to me is one of the reasons I stopped coming here during the EotE days.

Wow, so much hurt.

Donovan and I have had some, err, 'prickly' debates in the past, but I respect the guy.

(and his article was written on April 1st, so I got it right away that he was teasing us...)

And 'One Ring' does have player magic, it's just the subtle things like dwarven locking runes and elf sleep magic, rather than fireballs and flashy stuff... in keeping with the Tolkien mythos.

I'm not sure why everyone is being so fiery anyway over F&D? It's out in like 2 1/2 weeks, just wait and then complain about how it actually is, as opposed to launching lava balls over speculation.

I have to say to those that are steadfast locked into how they are certain it is going to be, unless you happen to be a playtester I think you are guaranteeing yourself that you will be disappointed. Even then it's going to be whatever it is and no amount of 'hating' on the forums will change it.

So I think I will just take whatever comes out and integrate it into my game as I see fit and skip trying to prove whether I'm right to someone on the forums. I'd always rather be happy than right anyway.

So I think I will just take whatever comes out and integrate it into my game as I see fit and skip trying to prove whether I'm right to someone on the forums. I'd always rather be happy than right anyway.

I had no interest in proving myself right. I got a bit sardonic over someone jumping all over me and accusing me of whining and not caring if anyone else at the table has fun, based on not reading huge disclaimers I had put in my posts that showed he had no idea what he was talking about, directly after someone else missed the point of my post due to misreading (though to his credit, he admitted fault, and there was no vitriol pointed his way or mine in that exchange))

Hell, I don't even think the idea I threw out is what they are going to do. I'd be honestly surprised if it was.

Holy fuh, this beta needs to come OUT!

You know, if EmperorNorton has no expectation that his "ideas" are actually going to happen, one has to wonder why he's getting so worked up them to the point that he is insulting people and then trying to claim the high road when people call him on him on being insulting. Granted, some of those folks aren't innocent either due to both sides sinking down to that level. Whatever.

And yes I.J. Thompson, the book does need to come out, if only so all the whining and bitching can be contained to the F&D Beta forum where it can be safely ignored. Sadly, this thread is probably a preview of the poodoo-storm that is to come, between the crowd that don't want Force users to get any preferential treatment (including not having any careers that are Force users by default) to the crowd that want Jedi PCs to be nigh-unstoppable mass-murdering gods from Day 1.

Agreed. If this is how nasty it is without the book on deck I can't wait to see the acid and lightening bolts that are coming...

And 'One Ring' does have player magic, it's just the subtle things like dwarven locking runes and elf sleep magic, rather than fireballs and flashy stuff... in keeping with the Tolkien mythos.

That's one of the things I really like about Cubicle 7's approach. It actually feels like an RPG set in Middle-Earth, not a D&D wanna-be system with the Tolkien bits strapped on. Even the Rivendell supplement kept that feel, though the Dunedain and High Elves are a good deal more capable than PCs using the corebook cultures.

Ghostofman,

I suspect that the first couple days might be amusing in the "flaming train wreck" kind of way.

It does seem to reinforce that it was a good idea to wait until the last book to do The Force.

You know, if EmperorNorton has no expectation that his "ideas" are actually going to happen, one has to wonder why he's getting so worked up them to the point that he is insulting people and then trying to claim the high road when people call him on him on being insulting. Granted, some of those folks aren't innocent either due to both sides sinking down to that level. Whatever.

The only post I made that was remotely insulting in this thread was saying that if someone believed that they wouldn't have a way in Force and Destiny to start with a Force Rating of 1 without spending XP, they were delusional. Which was describing a hypothetical person, and was in response to someone accusing me of much worse than that.

If you truly think I was insulting in other places, point it out. Telling someone they don't understand something, is not an insult. Disagreeing on what an ad hominem is is not an insult. Believing that Starting XP > Adventuring XP and trying to explain why is not an insult. Telling someone they are wrong is not an insult.

You know what is insulting? Accusing people of whining and not caring about other people's fun.

I'm serious. Actually look for me being insulting anywhere else in this thread (other than my general opinion of you, but since once again, this was a response to you coming in and sniping from your high horse, I once again, would claim provocation). If you can legit find it, I'll own up to it. I'll wait.

And I never claimed the high road, buddy. I straight up admitted to insulting the hypothetical people who believe that. I admitted it and even said I probably shouldn't have in one post. The one who is looking down on people while claiming the high road? That would be you. Stirring up the thread after something had already passed to get in the last word while making sure everyone knows that "he says nothing of value."

(And no, I don't think they will do the 3 non-force careers with 12 universal force specializations and allowing you to use a universal specialization as your starting specialization. The disagreement was over this would be unbalancing, not whether it was actually happening.)

Emperor Norton, it's easy to lose the points you've made when you get dragged into the mud. IME, it's probably best to just back out of the mudslinging and stick with your actual argument.

Emperor Norton, it's easy to lose the points you've made when you get dragged into the mud. IME, it's probably best to just back out of the mudslinging and stick with your actual argument.

To be honest. I agree with you. I'm not having the best day, and I don't think that some of the posts were in the best interest of the thread (mostly due to derailing it, I still hold that other than my opinion of Donovan, I only made one post that was actually insulting).

Lots of personal stuff, and its not fair to bomb the thread because of it. I don't think the things I said are factually wrong, but I probably shouldn't have continued the argument about my actions as it served no real constructive purpose.

I just wish people would debate my points, rather than making my disagreement about mechanics of the game into some kind of judgmental issue (ie. Disagreement is whining, etc.) I'd much rather debate mechanics and defend my position on them than defend myself.

I'll bother to respond to actual debate or rules discussions. I'm out other than that.