I'd swear that people who would be interested in playing a Jedi game will have something like

Dancing behind their eyes when they imagine the things their character will be getting up to. So surely the starting point for a Jedi game should be making that happen.

I'm sorry to say Erik that whether you like it or not, FFG will make F&D to be fairly balanced, and not in line with your ridiculously overpowered concept of anime Jedi.

But hey, you don't play the games, right, so why should you worry?

I'm also inclined to phase out Jedi Knights and call them Republic Knights instead, nothing stops a player becoming a Jedi Knight in the A New Hope era that FFG's three books are based in since the Republic has fallen and they're not servants of the Empire. But that allows for the introduction of Imperial Knights something I think is merited.

Go with it, copperbell.

Our game has seperate Alliance and Imperial force-using orders completely unaffiliated with the Jedi or Sith.

Sorry all that video did was reinforce the fact a Lightsaber shouldn't be a separate skill and simply count as Melee with optional extras such as deflecting blaster fire back at the firer as well as throwing a lightsaber at someone with it returning being the force part.

I can't help feeling a true duelist or swordsmaster would be handing a Jedi their backside if they were dumb enough to engage them in combat when they don't have to.

A Sith believes in force, intimidation and fear as Dooku told Grievous if your foe isn't scared get the h**l out of there same applies against a normal foe.

For a Jedi, combat should only be the result of being unable to avoid conflict not the first thing they fall back on.

I'm hoping FFG manage to avoid overpowering force users, I know people associate lightsabers with Jedi but they're just energy melee weapons and the idea only force users can use them is absurd, yes they're dangerous to use but that applies to most weapons it just makes those that can make use of them that much more important.

Me I'm thinking Lucas's Original Star Wars comic shows an interesting detail that of Stormtroopers wielding lightsabers...

I'm also inclined to phase out Jedi Knights and call them Republic Knights instead, nothing stops a player becoming a Jedi Knight in the A New Hope era that FFG's three books are based in since the Republic has fallen and they're not servants of the Empire. But that allows for the introduction of Imperial Knights something I think is merited.

Keep lightsabers as expensive but make it a symbol of the ruling organisation, makes finding lightsabers more interesting if they're wondering whether its a Sith Synthetic Crystal or from an old Jedi Monastic Temple wouldn't it?

Good points to run with it's truly your universe from 0ABY on. But, are you going to change Sith Warrior to Galactic Warrior? Just seems redundant. Jedi and Sith have no agenda other than prescribed by their side of the force.

I'd swear that people who would be interested in playing a Jedi game will have something like

Dancing behind their eyes when they imagine the things their character will be getting up to. So surely the starting point for a Jedi game should be making that happen.

I'm sorry to say Erik that whether you like it or not, FFG will make F&D to be faily balanced, and not in line with your ridiculously overpowered concept of anime Jedi.

But hey, you don't play the games, right, so why should you worry?

Amen to this. I mean, how bloody boring would the game be for the players of a new campaign that allows you to draw concepts/options from all three games?

Stormtroopers enter. Lightsaber is drawn. Everyone else goes home whilst the Jedi pwns everything that moves. Yay for productive gaming!

It would suck. Thankfully, FFG won't do that, since they've already promoted the idea of balance and compatibility.

Would it really kill people to just enter in to the spirit of things and play a Jedi in the Jedi game?

Or if you really just can't under any circumstances bring yourself to play a Jedi, politely excuse yourself and go find a game of EotE or AoR?

Would it really kill people to just enter in to the spirit of things and play a Jedi in the Jedi game?

Or if you really just can't under any circumstances bring yourself to play a Jedi, politely excuse yourself and go find a game of EotE or AoR?

No but I have played in games where the Jedi npc was just another excuse for the gm to have his own character and be the main character of a game that he's supposed to be running.

To me I like all this talk about the impending Force & Destiny because it gives me hope that one day I can run this and I'll be honestly surprised to find my group are running their version of Han, Leia, Luke, Chewie and Lando and it works fine!

Its amazing that its taken pretty much thirty years for me to realise I've been running d6 Star Wars wrong, but I'd call that an improvement lets see what happens next month!

Reading through all of this has taken the better part of my day at work - luckily summer time is low-stress and little to do.

I find all of this - more or less informed - speculation to be quite entertaining, particularly those that are more certain and set in their ways and not open to the nuances that an RPG in my opinion should have. Whether to play what Erik calls "Jedi" (which I would call silly over-powered anime super-ninja nonsense, entertaining, but boring entertainment) to the more low-key non-career variants, which I'd probably also avoid... I have my suspicions that some here perhaps are play-testers, but I can't be certain.

I guess there is something about trying to predict how the product turns out, it gives pride I guess or somesuch satisfaction if one was correct. So I guess I'll pitch in.

Going by what we have in AoR and EotE, I doubt that FaD will be much different in what it offers - of course they could go a completely different way, but I doubt it. I would assume we get 6 new careers with 3 specialisations each, at least some of which provide a force rating, or at least access to a force rating through a talent. Anything else would be simply odd in a game which focus is the force (and destiny) - and while you can play force characters in AoR and EotE that focuses mainly on the Force, it's not an archetype in a similar vein, the career part of the game is important and central to the characters. A bounty hunter/assassin follows an archetype, same with smuggler/scoundrel or ace/pilot or commander/squadron leader. These are archetypes you can follow, use and delve into. You're not required to, you could make a character concept and find the most fitting career and spec to realise it, but it is apparent to me at least that career/spec combos are intended to serve archetypes, story telling, simplifications, focus and roles tied specifically to the names and tropes we know from the films and a lot of popular culture. A force using bounty hunter is, from the game's archetypical perspective still a bounty hunter, which happens to use the force - of course this is not necessary to enforce in your games, shoehorning your players into playing something they don't want to play, but from a structural perspective based on how I understand the design of this game, that's the basic idea. Also, an argument for force using careers is Signature Abilities, these are tied to careers, and while force powers are similar to signature abilities, I would expect that future FaD career books would provide signature abilities for force users too.

Whether the careers, or specialisations, in FaD will follow a naming convention tying them to force traditions specifically or generally, is largely a minor detail. If you get a Force Knight, or Force Warrior or Martial Force User or Jedi Knight, we all see that these fill a similar role. Although I do think that we will get one or two careers closely related to Jedi - which provides the Lightsaber skill as a career skill. But I doubt that all 6 careers will be that specifically tied to a (neighbourhood of) force tradition. Some will be more particular, whereas other will be more open, but still calling on tropes and archetypes we know from the films, cartoons, comics and other parts of Legends still open to the developers in their work on these games.

Would it really kill people to just enter in to the spirit of things and play a Jedi in the Jedi game?

Or if you really just can't under any circumstances bring yourself to play a Jedi, politely excuse yourself and go find a game of EotE or AoR?

Didn't you also say in another post you expect there to only be a new flavor of Exile/Emergent in F&D with all other classes being FR 0?

Also just as an observation, the only currently missing things from the system that's presented in that video is a saber dueling mechanic, and force lightening... otherwise all I see is 65 XP in Move, maybe a few more in enhance, maybe, and some good rolls at FR2, but nothing requiring above FR3... So if you wanted to do this today you could.

Speculation: there will be more than 3 Force powers.

I'm thinking at least Move and some kind of Dark Side-flavored damaging power (my money's on "Wound," as many have also already predicted). And maybe another new power, like a healing one?

I like your analysis, Jegergryte.

I have recently come to suspect there may be only a single Force user present in FaD for reasons of symmetry and the need to have FaD stand alone as an independent SW game experience.

Universal: Force-Sensitve Exile

Universal: Force-Sensitve Emergent

Universal: Force-Sensitive Exemplar (?)

To continue guessing, how about three Force Power trees, with two of them being completely new (Move will be in FaD as well as EotE and AoR).

All of this hinges upon the following question: what are you supposed to do , as PCs, in a stand-alone FaD game? If you are supposed to be a group of Force-using super heroes, then my guess above will be quite wrong.

If you are supposed to have "regular" adventures in the SW universe (not necessarily in a dark and gritty way, and not necessarily caught up in the Galactic Civil War), then the book needs to include it's take on the Careers already seen. You will need to have blaster experts, pilots, smooth talkers, etc.

The best way (in my opinion) to use FaD will be as part 3 of the set: it simply must work that way, as far as I can see. It had better be the case that you can build a seamless, complete, and balanced RPG using all three core books.

Speculation: there will be more than 3 Force powers.

I'm thinking at least Move and some kind of Dark Side-flavored damaging power (my money's on "Wound," as many have also already predicted). And maybe another new power, like a healing one?

I don't think there will be any dark side stuff. There are many comments that suggest they are simply fine with good-aligned PCs only. Here's one from the EotE Force preview news item (June 11, 2103):

But what about the dark side symbols? Well, for most Force users, these are effectively “blank” results. Edge of the Empire assumes that the “default” for Player Characters is that they’re playing good people. However, if the player wants to tap into the dark side of the Force, he can suffer penalties to generate Force points from these dark side results as well.

Wish I had the time like Jag to read thru this whole thing to find one answer, but I can't so i'll just ask ..Is there an official announcement or press release somewhere that states FaD beta will be at gen con? I see everyone speculating about what it'll contain but I haven't found anything that says it'll be "next month" as someone mentioned. Is this an assumption based on the way they've been releasing the games in the past, or is there something I missed from FFG that says it WILL be there.

T

They sold tickets to play it. Which they've done in the past with the other betas.

Speculation: there will be more than 3 Force powers.

I'm thinking at least Move and some kind of Dark Side-flavored damaging power (my money's on "Wound," as many have also already predicted). And maybe another new power, like a healing one?

Jedi-lover.

Wish I had the time like Jag to read thru this whole thing to find one answer, but I can't so i'll just ask ..Is there an official announcement or press release somewhere that states FaD beta will be at gen con? I see everyone speculating about what it'll contain but I haven't found anything that says it'll be "next month" as someone mentioned. Is this an assumption based on the way they've been releasing the games in the past, or is there something I missed from FFG that says it WILL be there.

T

They've released previous ones at GenCon, Sam Stuart mentioned on O66 that they have a "rush" period 3 months before GenCon, they sell tickets for it, and other odds and ends from unnamed sources and hooded Kubaz in Tatooine alleyways.

GenCon is 14-17 of next month.

FFG doesn't really do official release dates of anything, only windows like "Q2" or "Fall" it's just safer for them that way. Same with product announcements, not really saying anything until the product is pretty much done. Since FaD is technically only a Beta and not a finished product they don't need to do any pre-marketing anyway as the target audience already pretty much knows and has their money ready to spend.

Speculation: there will be more than 3 Force powers.

I'm thinking at least Move and some kind of Dark Side-flavored damaging power (my money's on "Wound," as many have also already predicted). And maybe another new power, like a healing one?

I don't think there will be any dark side stuff. There are many comments that suggest they are simply fine with good-aligned PCs only. Here's one from the EotE Force preview news item (June 11, 2103):

But what about the dark side symbols? Well, for most Force users, these are effectively “blank” results. Edge of the Empire assumes that the “default” for Player Characters is that they’re playing good people. However, if the player wants to tap into the dark side of the Force, he can suffer penalties to generate Force points from these dark side results as well.

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your publication.

Would it really kill people to just enter in to the spirit of things and play a Jedi in the Jedi game?

Or if you really just can't under any circumstances bring yourself to play a Jedi, politely excuse yourself and go find a game of EotE or AoR?

Didn't you also say in another post you expect there to only be a new flavor of Exile/Emergent in F&D with all other classes being FR?

No?

I reckon all the splats will be force sensitive - something like 'dude who hits things with a lightsaber', 'dude who force lightnings people', 'progressive dude who hits things with a lightsaber AND carries a blaster', 'dude who uses the force to augment his blaster skills' etc.

Maybe some kinda mobility dude who uses force boosted super parkour or some such.

They, for instance, fight a secret war with a shadowy cabal of evil force users who wish to collect all the parts of the Rod of Seven Parts from secluded ancient sith temples filled with traps so they can complete a dark ritual to summon the evil god Imhotep.

So everything we can get from the other two core rulebooks if we just treat Lightsabers as another part of the Melee skill?

Well except that last paragraph and I recall that involved him being cursed to live forever and be a plague on the world (sort of like reality tv and other stuff I'd rather not mention and get this thread locked as a result) which required someone to find the key which is shaped as something else like a map case for instance and them finding his sarcophagus, opening it and reading from the Black Book...

They had to find the Gold Book to restore his soul so Brendan Fraser could kill him again... purely by accident but when you rush someone holding a gold scimitar to ward the formerly undead fiend well fortunately he had a sequel!

Which would have worked better if they didn't bother with a cgi Rock after all he's a capable badass without the scorpion cg!

Sorry where were we oh the Rod of Seven Parts... might work better if the PCs think they're thwarting the bad guys only to discover their patron IS the bad guy... anyway back to the thread.

Would it really kill people to just enter in to the spirit of things and play a Jedi in the Jedi game?

Or if you really just can't under any circumstances bring yourself to play a Jedi, politely excuse yourself and go find a game of EotE or AoR?

Given that you don't play this game by your own admission, not sure why you'd even care in the first place.

Obviously from the tone of posts here, people have a very different concept of what Jedi should be in the RPG. And it's certainly not the spees mahreen cheese that the fluff writers of WH40K would have people buy into. You bitched up a storm that FFG "screwed up" because spees mahreens of DeathWatch weren't the unstoppable uber-gods that the extremely biased fluff text of WH40K paints them as.

The people that want Jedi power-trip fantasies can very easily tweak the rules on Force users to do just that, but most folks would prefer a Jedi PC not be a one-man spotlight-stealing squad in their games right out the gate.

Would it really kill people to just enter in to the spirit of things and play a Jedi in the Jedi game?

Or if you really just can't under any circumstances bring yourself to play a Jedi, politely excuse yourself and go find a game of EotE or AoR?

Didn't you also say in another post you expect there to only be a new flavor of Exile/Emergent in F&D with all other classes being FR?

No?

I reckon all the splats will be force sensitive - something like 'dude who hits things with a lightsaber', 'dude who force lightnings people', 'progressive dude who hits things with a lightsaber AND carries a blaster', 'dude who uses the force to augment his blaster skills' etc.

Maybe some kinda mobility dude who uses force boosted super parkour or some such.

They, for instance, fight a secret war with a shadowy cabal of evil force users who wish to collect all the parts of the Rod of Seven Parts from secluded ancient sith temples filled with traps so they can complete a dark ritual to summon the evil god Imhotep.

Here is the flaw in your logic.

"All splats will be force sensitive" No they won't. Force and Destiny is designed to be a stand alone game that can but is not required to work with Edge and Age of Rebellion. That means that you need to be able to play a non force sensitive character and not have force using characters be more powerful than characters from the other games. Ala Luke, Han and Leia all 3 were important. In order to have the most flexibility and to not overpower characters from the other games you can't have them be more powerful. You would set them up using the same template at the Force Sensitive Emergent and Force Sensitive Exile. That means they will most likely use the same methods as have been tried and tested in the previous 2 books.

I see 6 careers, 3 specialties

A bunch of universal specialties for different types possibly including the previously released ones.. All of the current force powers plus new ones. Likely will have darkside powers for use by GMs. We should get the rules for force grip and lightning so they can be used by GMs and possibly players with GM permission.

I'm positive we will see Force-using careers. This is the Force book, after all.

I'm not, however, 100% certain any of these will have 'Jedi' in the title, however.

Far more likely than "Sith"... I'd lay odds that Jedi will be part of the name of at least one career.

Well daeglan, here is the flaw in your logic. FaD does not have to have the options to play non force users at all. Can you play a bounty hunter in AOR? can you play a Commando in EoTE? no to both. If a group decides to play in the FFG star wars universe AND decides to use only one core book (which I think most don't) AND chooses FaD as that core then it means that most of players in that group have prob decided to play force users of one type or another.

FaD logically will be the most focused/ narrowest book in the series and most people will use it with one or both other cores...but as a stand alone game there is no reason why all 6 careers can't have a "force user" theme. If people want use that book on it's own they prob want a lot of force types to choose from. It doesn't make much sense to create a book centered around force users and have only 1 or 2 of the 6 careers be actual force users...It will most likely be the opposite...4 or 5 force careers and 1or 2 non force.

Just a thought

T

Edit hard to tell, but are you suggesting that all force user Specs will be universal trees and that there will not be any actual force user careers at all?

I think most, or at least three of the six will have a force user theme, but I can easily see non-force users standing beside them, a class focused on researching the ancient jedi and sith with scholar, archeologist, and something else as their specializations for instance. It perfectly fits the theme of the book without being a force user in its own right, and is something that isn't covered by a career in eote or aor (Yes the specs I mentioned exist, but they aren't in the same career with an overarching goal of "knowledge").

I think that there will be 6 careers, each of which will have 3 specialties just like the first two core books. But each career will have 1 force user specialty. For example you have a warrior career with a martial arts specialty(Brawl), a weaponmaster specialty(melee), and a force user specialty(lightsaber).

I'd like a Force Tradition/Knight Career along with a way to discern the difference between a Padawan, a Knight, a Master and a Grandmaster so we know exactly how powerful or what they need to achieve to reach that title.

Sigh you know I'd love a splat book on each of the Force Traditions separately, but why would we need the Force & Destiny Core Rulebook?

The other core books had sections on various worlds, maybe we'll learn about Ilem or Tython perhaps even Korriban?

I'd love a section on KOTOR especially the ships used back then, but I'm going off topic... you know someone posted about the d6 weg version for jedi and now I'm wondering if they had a point after all this isn't the Prequel era its the Original Trilogy Era when Palpatine and Vader held sway and other than the Emperor's Hands and the Inquisitor (like the one we'll soon see in the Star Wars Rebels series) what other types of Forces Users are there that can be turned into careers?

Alien Force User

Quixotic Force User

Failed Jedi

Young Jedi

So if running like the others thats maybe 6 careers of 3 specialities each so maybe;

Knight: Imperial Knight, Republic Knight and Jedi Knight

Alien Force User: Dathomir Witch, Monk (the teleporter ones from EU so maybe not!)

Other: Quixotic, Failed and one other?

What do you think?