Neat. How about when it comes to Force artifacts - whether they be a place, person, or (somewhat) portable object. Are they covered mechanically?

Yes.

Awesome! I'm giddy like a schoolkid and getting funny looks from my wife. I'm so much more excited for this now!

Thanks for the tidbits - and your silence up until now. Anticipation is a powerful force

Since I'm terrible with matching names to races (outside of the major ones), I looked 'em all up on Wookiepedia. Here's the quick Whos-Who:

Cerean = Conehead Race, Ki-adi Mundi

Kel Dor = Breath Mask Dudes, Plo Koon

Mirialan = Green Polka-dot Lipped Dudes, Barriss Offee

Nautolan = Cthulhu-heads, Kit Fisto

Togruta = The ones with Barbershop Poles on their heads, Shaak Ti

(Hopefully the Zabraks, Twleks and Humans you can figure out on your own)

Russano_Greenstripe on the Reddit thread someone linked to has in turn shared a link to a pdf with photos of pages from the F&D Beta! It's 68 pages, and includes shots of the stuff on Morality, each career and all of their specializations, weapon descriptions, descriptions for all of the lightsaber upgrades, a little of the armor and new equipment stuff, starships, and Force powers! Some of the shots (particularly of the specialization trees) are somewhat unreadable, but I was still able to get a good sense of what each tree is doing.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/8p04kp35v59290x/Force+and+Destiny+r.pdf

WOW! :o

I seem to recall that in the EotE beta there were some Force power upgrades that were determined by the user's characteristics (something like Influence affecting an additional number of targets, via a Magnitude upgrade, equal to Willpower, I think). See a lot of stuff like that here, and wonder if it will be held over when this moves from beta to the final release.

I think some of the powers will get tweaked downward with the completed version, and I think Donovan's idea for Heal, in having it restore Strain as the basic power, and require an upgrade to restore Wounds makes more sense than the reverse we have here. Harm also seems like it starts out a bit strong, and the text on the Mastery upgrade indicating that it's Force Lightning at that point seems underwhelming. I mean, yeah, criticals are going to be pretty dangerous, but the power can do everything else that Force Lightning does up to that point, so Mastery just seems like it's moving to a much more powerful FL.

I like the Healing Trance talent!

The lightsaber forms talent trees are pretty cool!

I'm a little disappointed that I didn't see Intense Focus in any of the trees.

I think there's perhaps too much "add X defense" to be found scattered around, although I suppose that's to be expected of a book building Jedi.

Since I'm terrible with matching names to races (outside of the major ones), I looked 'em all up on Wookiepedia. Here's the quick Whos-Who:

Cerean = Conehead Race, Ki-adi Mundi

Kel Dor = Breath Mask Dudes, Plo Koon

Mirialan = Green Polka-dot Lipped Dudes, Barriss Offee

Nautolan = Cthulhu-heads, Kit Fisto

Togruta = The ones with Barbershop Poles on their heads, Shaak Ti

Yes, but we have established your title as High Father of obscure Star Wars memorabilia........

Does the Holocron differ much from the Mentor, as an option, as far as in-game effects? Or are they simply narrative devices for a) character progression and b) mission hooks?

Holocron is an object with specific mechanics. A mentor is more fluffy and a narrative tool.

Okay, I got a question for you guys - back in the olden days of D6, if you wanted to raise your force from a 3D to a 3D+1 but you didn't have a teacher, it would cost you twice the character points than normal. Without getting into a debate of "Geeze, that was a terrible way of doing that", is there any pluses or minuses to having a little green gnome riding on your back versus the no-teacher DIY school of force learning?

Or is learning the Force the same (be it costs or time required or simple mechanics) regardless if you have a teacher or not?

Man! I really want to play right now! Don't want to have to wait until the end of the month for the next session being run!

And I want to make a new character using F&D stuff!

I'm really happy with what I've heard. It sounds balanced, with options for upgrading the power level with GM agreement.

The Force powers sound very cool without invalidating the muggle characters.

Feels like a lot of things like starting with lightsabers and power level at the beginning is down to the GM.

The races are cool and appropriate; it feels like they've been holding a lot of the good ones back for F&D!

'Jedi' are not rammed down our throats and all the careers can be reskinned for the Force tradition of your choice.

Lightsabers seem iconic but not so overpowered they invalidate every other weapon.

There's a lot of KotOR stuff, from Krayt Dragon crystals to the classic old-school classes like Sentinel and Consular.

It feels like it would translate well to any era.

Lightsaber forms are in as talent trees.

Pretty much every Force power we could ask for.

The stuff I don't like (Morality) looks like it's easily ignored or reskinned as a motivational thing.

It sounds like FFG have really hit that sweet-spot, of making Force-users iconic and useful without making everything that's come before instantly redundant. I had faith that they could do this, but it's good to see it happen regardless.

Thanks to 2P51 and HappyDaze and all the other Alpha playtesters for spilling the beans!

I wouldn't dismiss Morality out of hand. Narrative and mechanics need not be exclusive of one another and Morality provides utility for staving off OP-ness.

Its not just stick and consequence though. It also sets up where a GM and player can discuss the character's emotional strengths and weaknesses and when Morality triggers at the beginning of a session really attempt to work that into the story and immerse them more in the concept of the character. It provides a mechanical benefit, but it facilitates more immersion and ownership of the character I think.

Yeah, I have to say that the table that describes what actions gain you conflict is pretty clear cut as well as lenient towards generally "good" adventurer fare. Most of the small stuff (lying and theft) has broad allowances for situation and really only apply if the character is completely self-interested or the action is "unnecessary."

They also clearly define murder – killing someone who is helpless or not a threat. So that means normal combat is fine, but no killing stunned targets (which is very setting appropriate).

I'm really surprised and pleased by how well defined they have all the conflict incurring actions.

Does the Holocron differ much from the Mentor, as an option, as far as in-game effects? Or are they simply narrative devices for a) character progression and b) mission hooks?

Holocron is an object with specific mechanics. A mentor is more fluffy and a narrative tool.

Okay, I got a question for you guys - back in the olden days of D6, if you wanted to raise your force from a 3D to a 3D+1 but you didn't have a teacher, it would cost you twice the character points than normal. Without getting into a debate of "Geeze, that was a terrible way of doing that", is there any pluses or minuses to having a little green gnome riding on your back versus the no-teacher DIY school of force learning?

Or is learning the Force the same (be it costs or time required or simple mechanics) regardless if you have a teacher or not?

It's not handled hard and fast. The Holocron has specific mechanical rules, but it is also kind of fluffy when laid out with the Ship, and Mentor. The Mentor can also be dead, and you see them in visions, dreams, etc.

Lots of these discussions about advancing Force powers, training skills, etc, are just going to have to be handled table by table, GM to players. It's really too crazy to try and designate hard and fast guidelines. The book provides options and ideas but it doesn't say 'this way or else'.

I always default to including it in story if possible. It it's a brand new group, all Force Sensitives, then advancement of skills seems by default to be just too easy a way to plan sessions to not use it narratively.

I have a whole rant on Morality as a mechanic...but I'm too tired to type it all up. I just think it should have more effects on non force users.

Russano_Greenstripe on the Reddit thread someone linked to has in turn shared a link to a pdf with photos of pages from the F&D Beta! It's 68 pages, and includes shots of the stuff on Morality, each career and all of their specializations, weapon descriptions, descriptions for all of the lightsaber upgrades, a little of the armor and new equipment stuff, starships, and Force powers! Some of the shots (particularly of the specialization trees) are somewhat unreadable, but I was still able to get a good sense of what each tree is doing.

Okay, I have bought everything that's come out thusfar, I'll buy the beta the second I am able to, I'll also get the core rules because I'm a sucker for this product - so I can admit with no shame that I was occasionally checking the . . . ahem - bays of pirates - for someone with a scanner, the beta and WAY too much time on their hands when they should be going to a convention.

This will have to scratch that itch for the moment. . . .

Lots of these discussions about advancing Force powers, training skills, etc, are just going to have to be handled table by table, GM to players. It's really too crazy to try and designate hard and fast guidelines. The book provides options and ideas but it doesn't say 'this way or else'.

I always default to including it in story if possible. It it's a brand new group, all Force Sensitives, then advancement of skills seems by default to be just too easy a way to plan sessions to not use it narratively.

It's not handled hard and fast. The Holocron has specific mechanical rules, but it is also kind of fluffy when laid out with the Ship, and Mentor. The Mentor can also be dead, and you see them in visions, dreams, etc.

Oooh, I like the Dead Mentor Ghost Thing - that's actually a pretty elegant way of handling it without having a badassed NPC just standing around in the background doing nothing.

As for the rest, yeah - I kind of guessed that, what with the game engine relying so heavily on story telling and all. There's no way that it would have gotten hung up on a niggling game mechanic like that when it really needs to be the GM and table telling a story.

The dead mentor is fun. Holocrons are neat as well. The whole Force item will add more flavor as well. How the game starts was part of why I was pretty cavalier in the 'Lightsaber as starting gear' thread. I think by the time someone really gets to digging into these characters and looking at what they can do with Force powers, they just might not be reaching for their Lightsaber as much as they thought they would.

I wouldn't dismiss Morality out of hand. Narrative and mechanics need not be exclusive of one another and Morality provides utility for staving off OP-ness.

Its not just stick and consequence though. It also sets up where a GM and player can discuss the character's emotional strengths and weaknesses and when Morality triggers at the beginning of a session really attempt to work that into the story and immerse them more in the concept of the character. It provides a mechanical benefit, but it facilitates more immersion and ownership of the character I think.

I might see if I can re-skin it to reflect the intended Law/Chaos balance that is at the core of our game.

And throw in some kind of mechanic for 'Corruption' for the really serious nastiness.

Thus far I have thrown out the mechanics of Duty and Obligation while retaining the narrative elements, so I'll probably do that here.

Just checked the link that Yeti1069 posted and thus far I have liked the Morality mechanism.

Also liked how Dark Side user affects Party's Destiny pool.

Since I'm terrible with matching names to races (outside of the major ones), I looked 'em all up on Wookiepedia. Here's the quick Whos-Who:

Cerean = Conehead Race, Ki-adi Mundi

Kel Dor = Breath Mask Dudes, Plo Koon

Mirialan = Green Polka-dot Lipped Dudes, Barriss Offee

Nautolan = Cthulhu-heads, Kit Fisto

Togruta = The ones with Barbershop Poles on their heads, Shaak Ti

(Hopefully the Zabraks, Twleks and Humans you can figure out on your own)

Thank you for this - you're not the only one who can never keep the races straight. Named examples are also really useful.

So many good things in this thread. This book sounds fantastic.

A friend just said he'd got me a copy!

I'm a very happy Marcy now!

Just checked the link that Yeti1069 posted and thus far I have liked the Morality mechanism.

Also liked how Dark Side user affects Party's Destiny pool.

Yeah, Dark Side characters make for poor team players. You'll see more of this when looking at powers like Heal/Harm where the Dark Side version is pretty much "every sentient for themself" compared to the supportive aspects of the the Light Side.

It is nice to know they have Light/Dark side powers

"Now where is my black cloak"

Yeah, Dark Side characters make for poor team players. You'll see more of this when looking at powers like Heal/Harm where the Dark Side version is pretty much "every sentient for themself" compared to the supportive aspects of the the Light Side.

I really want to see how this mechanic plays out, since one of my character concepts for a future campaign (an KotOR era game) was going to be a Sith on the run from - well, pretty much everyone. The Sith want him dead as a traitor, the Republic wants him dead as an enemy of the state, and the Jedi want him imprisoned. Eventually he'll learn to be good through The Power of Love and Friendship, but for the short term, it'll be interesting to see how his badguy-ness drags the bell curve of the team down.

Yeah, Dark Side characters make for poor team players. You'll see more of this when looking at powers like Heal/Harm where the Dark Side version is pretty much "every sentient for themself" compared to the supportive aspects of the the Light Side.

I really want to see how this mechanic plays out, since one of my character concepts for a future campaign (an KotOR era game) was going to be a Sith on the run from - well, pretty much everyone. The Sith want him dead as a traitor, the Republic wants him dead as an enemy of the state, and the Jedi want him imprisoned. Eventually he'll learn to be good through The Power of Love and Friendship, but for the short term, it'll be interesting to see how his badguy-ness drags the bell curve of the team down.

Unicorn pony with a lightsaber horn?

I wouldn't dismiss Morality out of hand. Narrative and mechanics need not be exclusive of one another and Morality provides utility for staving off OP-ness.

Its not just stick and consequence though. It also sets up where a GM and player can discuss the character's emotional strengths and weaknesses and when Morality triggers at the beginning of a session really attempt to work that into the story and immerse them more in the concept of the character. It provides a mechanical benefit, but it facilitates more immersion and ownership of the character I think.

I might see if I can re-skin it to reflect the intended Law/Chaos balance that is at the core of our game.

And throw in some kind of mechanic for 'Corruption' for the really serious nastiness.

Thus far I have thrown out the mechanics of Duty and Obligation while retaining the narrative elements, so I'll probably do that here.

Why do you equate Law and Chaos with Light and Dark, respectively? Palpatine's goals, other than personal power, and what drew Anakin to his side (in part), was a desire to impose a more rigid order upon the galaxy. Certainly an imperial-style government is more orderly than a democracy, at least in terms of the governance.

In the EU, few of the dark siders are questing to sow chaos throughout the galaxy, although, for some, that is the result.

I would have liked F&D to add a Mastery talent to the preexisting Force trees.

Why do you equate Law and Chaos with Light and Dark, respectively?

Too big a topic to cover our alternate universe here, but the Jedi/Sith faction (the Confederacy) are the main antagonists of our game. Our Jedi code essentially boils down to 'the end justifies the means'. As an embittered Ben put it to our AOE group: 'What's the difference between the Jedi and the Sith? The Sith stab you in the front.'

Our F&D group will be a small but growing tradition with a Zen focus, trying to restore sanity to a galaxy torn apart by a four-way civil war.

So much to digest. I'm personally delighted with the detail. However, I guess my ex-Academy TIE Fighter Ace, on a quest -bequeathed by the Holocron of an Ancient Qensei Jedi Blademaster- to unearth the Seven Saber Styles, is going to need a **tiny** bit more XP than anticipated.

So has anyone got a really satisfying lightsaber fight out of the system yet?

If you're speaking of Lightsaber vs. Lightsaber, then yes. It plays out quite differently in this system than in others. You can't really avoid being hit - the best you really hope for is to prevent critical hits and keep them from getting too many excess successes. You end up using Parry to reduce the Damage of the hits (because Breach makes Soak all but useless) but the Strain you take for doing so is pretty significant. This means that you're likely to need to use Advantages to bleed off Strain rather than scoring critical hits (unless you're pretty sure you can drop the target and there aren't other opponents around). The net effect is that it's a rather tactical situation despite not using minis and maps.

This sounds fantastic. Tactical depth and judgement calls without lightsabre duelling becoming some over-powered nightmare compared to the non-Force wielders. This sounds ludicrous fun!

I have a question for any kindly person with the books - Force Lightning! How deadly is it? And how far up the tree is it? I always liked the idea from TCW and movies that it was something only the real masters managed to achieve - it was the impression I always got. And also that it was pretty lethal, especially if you weren't a Sith/Jedi yourself. Dooku manages to fell Maul's brother with it pretty easily in TCW and he was nearly unstoppable normally. Also in the movies, I think we only ever see Sidious, Yoda and Dooku actually use it (may be remembering wrongly).

Does it have suitable stature in the rules?