Am I the only who thinks the cleric getting easy BS stat advances seems odd. To me, that should belong to the assassin, arbiter and guardsman. The cleric should smash with hammers or other close weapons to destroy the evils of the world

I do think the cleric should be good at close combat so am proposing having their WS replace BS for advance XP. I would further suggest taking away their firearms and having them start with close combat weapons. I do not think every class needs to run around with guns...

I also think using guns in melee/point blank range should be WS and not BS as WS implies positioning and reacting to the chaos of fighting while BS is aiming and whatnot...

I allow people to switch around some of the profile advance costs to suit their characters better.
WS instead of BS for the Cleric.

A Guardsman officer may exchance S for Fel.

etc.

But the switch is permanent.

GrtZ,

S.

I actually had the same thought... and Santiago, I like that idea!

My players are very used to free form advancement such as in WOD, so I let them tinker around a bit with the classes.

The above given changes aren't the only one, I also allow the exchange of certain skill trees (trained/+10/20) for another if appropriate even if it means they will get the skills earlier than stated in their profile.
I am very careful and demand good explainations, it also has to serve the roleplay aspect of their characters.

I would for example allow a Noble Born Guardsman to exchange his Fel advance scheme with his S advance Scheme and have him exchange Drive Walker with Command or Charm if he wants to play the Charming Noble.

I would not allow him to exchange Melee Training (Chain) for Melee Training (Power).

If it is cool and it fits, GO FOR IT!

Thanks for the feedback. I like the idea of allowing some swapping of stats...

I would have liked to see the cleric being a bit more of a specialized leader and melee career would add to their flavor.

Also, given the faith based advances of the sisterhood, should the cleric be able to get the same feats and abilities???

Also, given the faith based advances of the sisterhood, should the cleric be able to get the same feats and abilities???

He can get some if he takes the alternate rank in the IH.

And thinking about it, that WS/BS thingy of the cleric is really odd - the only traditional ranged weapon of the ecclesiarchy is the flamer which doesn't use BS anyway.

jayhad said:

I agree with this. But without having looked at the cleric advance chart, something tells me that you'd need to change more than just the one stat - I'm guessing that ballistic talents show up later on which would need to be swapped for melee talents or other upgrades.

I agree with this. But without having looked at the cleric advance chart, something tells me that you'd need to change more than just the one stat - I'm guessing that ballistic talents show up later on which would need to be swapped for melee talents or other upgrades.

You might want to exchange your something for a more accurate version - I've just gone through the cleric tables and he already gets way more melee than ranged talents. The hierophant path gets a few and there's Rapid Reload on rank 2, but otherwise, there are almost no ranged talents.

Wierd. Well, that only makes the change even more sensible.

We also added that a Cleric could be from a Feral World, just likea kind of Spirutal Leader of the Tribe or so d;

A view from the other side:

To me, a cleric seems to be a notable melee char. He might lack all this "damage" and "extra attack" talents, but he comes with a lot of "Hatred"-Talents (+10 WS on certan opponents). If a player gives a good "starting stat" (35+) to WS, the cleric will be a seizeable opponent for everyone he scorns.
Giving him access to an "easy" advance-WS allows for not only a notable, but fearsome melee opponent, even without all the damage talents.

Talking BF:
It is odd to me as wall that the advancement is THAT easy. I would rather swap that for FEL. Yes, sure: the clergy aren´t that likeable in WH40K. But since they are the one who have to sway the masses, I would rather give them an easy "social" advance then an easy "combat" advance.

Don't forget that all but the primary advances of a cleric are only 250 exp for the first advance which makes them the most felixible of all character types. Their combat talents back this up with both melee and ranged combat talents.

It strikes me that if the character is standard knowledgable inspiring cleric with little combat skills they will default to ranged weapons which is why the ranged advance is cheaper.

I wouldn't stop a character swapping the advance costs for WS and BS around at startup if it fitted the character (Redemtionist, Fuedal or Feral worlder for instance) but I don't think the talents need messing around with persay.

Although I did allow a Cleric character to take Ferocious Assault as an elite advance relatively early.

My GM changed all stats for all characters to the simple advancement. Not all of the same class are built the same way. We also basically ignore the home world restrictions. So far no one has made a feral techpriest but even feral worlders need the Emporer's light.

Acolyte Bones said:

I think as guidelines (especially if randomly rolling) the homeworld career restrictions usually make sense. I can't think of any feral world basis for an Arbite for instance. Where as others I can think of exceptions straight away, I can think of one fluff based group of guardsmen equivalent Void borns, so i deffinately allow it if they can come with a basis.

jayhad said:

there is not reason why they cant but take the same talents and traits but for this perpose im assuming you meant the acts of faith in which case you could but it would have to come at a high price as according to fluff a sisters faith will NEVER be i question and if they find themselves waining they join the sister repentia until death. clerics are temptable... thats the fluff difference