Liked your post overall, but I actually like Abrams. Well, I didn't really like his TV stuff, but I loved what he did with Star Trek and Super 8, for example. I hope that is the Abrams we see in Episode 7, not Revolution.

I didn't like the lens flair in Star Trek, really disliked the Remix of Khan, thought Mission Impossible was just okay, and hated hated hated HATED Cloverfield. So yeah, I've been living in dread of how he's gonna ****-up E7 for a while now.

But hey, that's just like, my opinion, man.

I don't think he was the director for Cloverfield (which I despise)... Just the producer.

Ugh.

I'm a huge Godzilla fan from childhood, and I really, really disliked this new Godzilla film. A bunch of boring people plot filler for 1.5 hours. I seriously almost walked out on the second cut away from Giant Monster fighting so that we could watch more people talking. It was loaded with plot holes too. Godzilla looked nice.

I'm worried about the spin-off movie now, and I'm not usually a nay-sayer.

To me this is like hearing that Michael Bay would be directing. (Except MB would be all empty action, where GE is all empty dialogue.)

I thought Godzilla was goddamned brilliant, while everything I've seen JJ do is pedestrian to godawful.

Ugh.

I'm a huge Godzilla fan from childhood, and I really, really disliked this new Godzilla film.

But hey, that's just like, my opinion, man.

Opinions being all over the place at least gives me hope. I can hope at least some of us love Episode 7 and we aren't ALL let down at least somewhat like happened with Episode 1.

I haven't seen Godzilla yet but liked the previews. It looked like a very serious take on Godzilla, which I thought was interesting. Grimmshade could your hatred of it be due to your love of the originals? For example I liked the new Abrams Star Trek, but was not a big Trekkie. Most old Trek fans seemed to hate it. I too watched lots of Godzilla as a kid, but I welcome anything more serious then a man in a rubber suit and poor lip syncs. The last Godzilla was just ok, kinda blah, the previews of this one had given me some hope.

Grimmshade could your hatred of it be due to your love of the originals? For example I liked the new Abrams Star Trek, but was not a big Trekkie. Most old Trek fans seemed to hate it.

In other news, what didn't people like about Cloverfield?

The only thing I didn't like about Cloverfield was the wavy-cam. It's the first time I have gotten motion sick in the theater.

I just found the people parts in the new Godzilla movie EXTREMELY boring, like I almost got up and left boring. Also, the director seemed to be going out of his way to NOT show Godzilla.

I'm a fan of both the original series Star Trek and the new JJ movies. I thought the second one was inferior to the original Khan movie however, and wished they had gone with something new.

Overall I like JJ and have high hopes for Episode 7.

Even with as much as I didn't like Godzilla, I'm trying to be optimistic, because... Wow, We are getting an Episode 7 and a Boba Fett movie! (It's just worrisome that Gareth Edwards has been handed another property from my childhood!)

Haven't seen Godzilla yet. I did like the Trek reboot but Into Darkness while I didn't dislike it, I thought the story was pretty mediocre to poor, not how I would have used Khan at all. Abrams can put a film together and it will look good, he gets decent performances from actors, and with Kasdan on board for the story I am hopeful. I think his biggest problem with Into Darkness was the very weak story.

Oh, and the guy who wrote for Book of Eli (above average), After Earth (bad), and the Walking Dead video game (good) is writing for the stand alone movie.

Oh, and the source for the Red Squadron rumor and the meat of teh story. Spoilered for potential spoiler:

Given the scoop is from a translated German blog with a friend of a friend source and not much else being reported on the "leak", I'm not really buying this one.

I really, really, hope there aren't any obvious comparisons to realworld events or politics. I watch Star Wars to submerse myself in another make believe world and would hate to be sitting in a theatre constantly reminded of something currently in the news. Even once if there is an obvious, on purpose, "Oh that's about Bush/Obama/Religion/GunControl/Immigration/Blahblah", moment, I will be pissed off.

I'll concur at least on that point. I found the political commentary in Captain America: The Winter Soldier to be immersion-breaking. At least in Star Trek I expect a bunch of political and social commentary. Even the Original Series is loaded with that sort of thing. It's probably one of the reasons Star Trek isn't my "escapism of choice" and Star Wars is. That said, I moderately enjoyed the Abrams Star Trek movies, but then again, the "Can't beat them drones, man." message was not unexpected.

I'm planning to see Godzilla on Sunday, and to be honest, Grimmshade's review has been the first negative thing I've heard about it so far. (I live in a basement, though, so...)

Edit: For the record, the stuff I like to keep out of my Star Wars is along the lines of the "Triad of Evil" reference in James Luceno's Labyrinth of Evil, which clumsily compared President Bush to Chancellor Palpatine. Finding real-world, current politics in Star Wars just isn't one of those "You got chocolate in my peanut butter!" moments.

Sometimes I think people look too much for political views in films, etc. There ARE going to be political viewpoints, because the characters themselves are going to have political viewpoints. Also, politics makes for narrative. Star Wars (especially the prequels, but all 6 really) was political. Any film about WWII or with WWII references is going to be political. The world is political, and sometimes characters are going to be written with viewpoints that aren't your own.

I have some political viewpoints that I can't even discuss in public, or I'll be harshly attacked. However, I can enjoy almost any film for what it is.

(All this said, I do realize that writers and other artists are definitely going to always insert at least some of their beliefs into their work.)

Oh, and X-Men was fantastic! Just saw it last night. Great character scenes, good humor, good action. I wish Bryan Singer was directing a Star Wars spinoff.

Any film about WWII or with WWII references is going to be political.

'Nazis are bad' has to be just about the least controversial political statement you can make though. Not entirely uncontroversial, because people are like that, but in terms of opinions to hold it is fairly low down the controversial stakes.

And I really, desperately, want Star Wars to be nice, uncontroversial fun.

Sadly, this is not going to happen.

Sometimes I think people look too much for political views in films, etc. There ARE going to be political viewpoints, because the characters themselves are going to have political viewpoints. Also, politics makes for narrative. Star Wars (especially the prequels, but all 6 really) was political. Any film about WWII or with WWII references is going to be political. The world is political, and sometimes characters are going to be written with viewpoints that aren't your own.

It's really not about me agreeing or disagreeing with the characters' political ideologies. I expect that. Nor is it about political messages being present at all. I'm certainly not saying that all media or entertainment should be absolutely devoid of political references. I'm only stating that I don't particularly care for painfully obvious, "beat you over the head with it," current-political preaching that doesn't necessarily fit with the rest of the narrative. Star Wars was so successful because it referenced so much: it is as much about ancient Rome as it is about World War Two. There are definitely political messages, but they're not as obvious or preachy as Palpatine coining the phrase "Triad of Evil."

When we're removed enough from the events, the political and historical messages aren't as irritatingly obvious, and yes, I know that's very subjective. I didn't mind M*A*S*H in Space because when you base a Star Wars novel on a TV show that is set in the Korean War, but is really about the Vietnam War, some of Hawkeye's politicizing gets lost in translation. That said, if Star Wars VII contains a really obvious message about NSA spying, or drone strikes, or global warming, though, (whatever that message happens to be, and whether I agree with it or not!) I'm going to be disappointed.

'Nazis are bad' has to be just about the least controversial political statement you can make though. Not entirely uncontroversial, because people are like that, but in terms of opinions to hold it is fairly low down the controversial stakes.

And I really, desperately, want Star Wars to be nice, uncontroversial fun.

Sadly, this is not going to happen.

Please, ErikB/AluminumWolf, let's not have this conversation again.

In other news, what didn't people like about Cloverfield?

It comes down to a couple of different things for me. I hate the "Found footage" cinema verite genre. I love gorgeous cinematography, I love brilliant composition. Hitchcock, Serigio Leone, Kurosawa - people (and their cinematographers) who knew how to put together a shot are a dieing breed in Hollywood. They've been replaced by herky jerky action shots and pedestrian composition.

And then there's the characters. I actively disliked every single one of them. The first twenty minutes are spent watching the main characters throw a party when really all I want to see is the monster. The creative team decided to start off with a bunch of hipsters who are all experiencing relationship drama and personal issues and family problems in an attempt to build character - handled in the most clumsy, hamfisted way possible.

Now a case could be made for the new Godzilla, making you suffer through a boring lead and his adventures trying to get back to his family. I reject that hyphotisis

There were no macho characters busy throwing out wise-cracks and one-liners, all the main characters communicated nothing but sincerity in their interactions and – unlike a great many action movie protagonists – Ford was refreshingly free of whining.

(hold on, I'm getting into spoiler territory for Godzilla '14 here)

What people mistake for blandness is really just competence and emotional maturity.

Honestly, I could go on (and on and on) - but that's my big beef with the flick.

I just found the people parts in the new Godzilla movie EXTREMELY boring, like I almost got up and left boring. Also, the director seemed to be going out of his way to NOT show Godzilla.

That's a complaint I hear a lot about the movie - Being character drama heavy means that Edwards holds back the Monster Action too much. And yes, if you go into this movie thinking that it’ll be Godzilla wrecking s**t for two solid hours, you’ll probably be very disappointed. Much like the classic Godzilla flicks, G14 has a very slow build to Godzilla’s big entrance.

The old ones, especially the really good ones, tend to hold back the monster action. For example, the 90′s version of Godzilla versus King Ghidorah, where Godzilla is barely even in the movie. It’s not like Pacific Rim where you’ve got tons of kaiju and Jaegers running around. If we’d seen Godzilla stomping building and roaring for two hours it would’ve been boring as hell. So going with the Jaws approach, where we are teased throughout, only catching fleeting glimpses of the awesomeness of the Monsters as seen through the eyes of the civilians or getting a sense of the scale of their power because of the devastation in their wake really works. It builds up the audience’s tension and frustration until one massive release of “Oh yeah, it’s on now!” – and when the final reel comes, the action really satisfies in a way only a classic Godzilla flick can.

I'll concur at least on that point. I found the political commentary in Captain America: The Winter Soldier to be immersion-breaking. At least in Star Trek I expect a bunch of political and social commentary. Even the Original Series is loaded with that sort of thing. It's probably one of the reasons Star Trek isn't my "escapism of choice" and Star Wars is. That said, I moderately enjoyed the Abrams Star Trek movies, but then again, the "Can't beat them drones, man." message was not unexpected.

See, I'm the reverse. No I don't want a political drama or anything, but some slight underpinnings of social relevancy I don't mind. Going back to Godzilla '54, I think the movies work best when there's some kind of point to them. The original was a pretty bleak film about the horrors of atomic war from the prospective of a people who had just been the given the unique distinction of being the only victims of an A-Bomb in history.

Sure the effects look cheesy and dated to today's eyes, but the scenes of Godzilla leveling buildings, setting fire to cities (a disturbing sequence to the Japanese, I'm sure - having just lived through the Tokyo fire bombings), and killing indiscriminately are still powerful. Director Ishiro Honda doesn't pull punches with the aftermath of the deviation, bodies lined up in hospital hallways, the cries of the dieing, the orphaned children weeping for their mothers - it's bleak and horrific, and not at all the "Friend of Children Everywhere" Godzilla that he would become in the 1970s.

Wrong tone for the new Star Wars flicks, of course, but my point is that some kind of relevancy can be made to serve the film if handled properly.

Sometimes I think people look too much for political views in films, etc. There ARE going to be political viewpoints, because the characters themselves are going to have political viewpoints.

We weren't saying we didn't want any political storylines in Ep VII. Obviously there have been political narratives throughout all previous episodes of Star Wars. What I and now Yosh are trying to convey is that we don't want any blatant references to current political topics being shoved in our faces as we are trying to enjoy Star Wars. There is a big difference between obviously unintentional comparisons (Ex: The Empire Strikes to modern War on Terrorism) and dialogue/plot obviously shoved in to provide current political commentary (Ex: Captain America: The Winter Soldier to USA's drones and the NSA).

Making the latest Captain America into half an action flick and half a political debate ruins the fun for some of us:

Full Link Here

"Without spoiling anything for those who have not seen the movie (not too much anyway), Captain America: The Winter Soldier is about an intelligence and defense agency within the U.S. that plans to launch a new program which would allow the agency to not only spy on people around the world, but would target and take out individuals the system considers potential threats using unmanned air carriers (giant drones)."

This is what we meant when we said:

I really, really, hope there aren't any obvious comparisons to realworld events or politics. I watch Star Wars to submerse myself in another make believe world and would hate to be sitting in a theatre constantly reminded of something currently in the news.

It's really not about me agreeing or disagreeing with the characters' political ideologies. I expect that. Nor is it about political messages being present at all. I'm certainly not saying that all media or entertainment should be absolutely devoid of political references. I'm only stating that I don't particularly care for painfully obvious, "beat you over the head with it," current-political preaching that doesn't necessarily fit with the rest of the narrative.

or drone strikes

You mean the Evil Xenophobic Imperialist Empire Of Privileged Straight White Men's unrestricted deployment of Assassin Droids targeted using dodgy information obtained through torture that slaughter innocents by the bucketload (almost always children at weddings) in their villainous attempts to suppress same-sex marriage, women and ethnic minorities?

I don't know about you, but that movie sounds like two hours of fun fun fun! I am sure everyone on the internet would love it!

If it comes to it, I'd so much prefer the blacker than black villains of Star Wars to be a caricature of Nazis than of the Republican party/The NRA/Middle America/Men etc.

It comes down to a couple of different things for me. I hate the "Found footage" cinema verite genre. I love gorgeous cinematography, I love brilliant composition. Hitchcock, Serigio Leone, Kurosawa - people (and their cinematographers) who knew how to put together a shot are a dieing breed in Hollywood. They've been replaced by herky jerky action shots and pedestrian composition.

And then there's the characters. I actively disliked every single one of them. The first twenty minutes are spent watching the main characters throw a party when really all I want to see is the monster. The creative team decided to start off with a bunch of hipsters who are all experiencing relationship drama and personal issues and family problems in an attempt to build character - handled in the most clumsy, hamfisted way possible.

Certainly I have no urge to see any more found footage movies, but it was fun for a while. And I thought the characters being normal people instead of heroes worked. Now, I don't like them, and I'm not sure if I was supposed to, but that works anyway. Lots of people are assholes, and they get caught up in events beyond their control as well.

That's a complaint I hear a lot about the movie - Being character drama heavy means that Edwards holds back the Monster Action too much. And yes, if you go into this movie thinking that it’ll be Godzilla wrecking s**t for two solid hours, you’ll probably be very disappointed. Much like the classic Godzilla flicks, G14 has a very slow build to Godzilla’s big entrance.

This. This is exactly how I feel. I haven't seen Godzilla '14 yet but this gives me extreme hope. Some intelligence and character-driven narrative inserted into the plot instead of all action and uber-cool graphics with no substance. Transformers I think was horrible, for example. The plot and characater development got lost between one CGI robot battle fest after another.

Think of the Empire Strikes Back. Most will feel that movie had lots of action, but if you actually time the action vs. non-action, you would find out most of that movie was about the plot and characters. Now go time the purely action sequences in Episode 1 and compare. That, I personally think, is why most Star Wars fans rate Episode 5 much higher then Episode 1.

Please, ErikB/AluminumWolf, let's not have this conversation again.

I think you are on to something...

You mean the Evil Xenophobic Imperialist Empire Of Privileged Straight White Men's unrestricted deployment of Assassin Droids targeted using dodgy information obtained through torture that slaughter innocents by the bucketload (almost always children at weddings) in their villainous attempts to suppress same-sex marriage and ethnic minorities?

If it comes to it, I'd so much prefer the blacker than black villains of Star Wars to be a caricature of Nazis than of the Republican party/The NRA/Middle America etc.

Please, ErikB/AluminumWolf, let's not have this conversation again.

I think you are on to something...

You mean the Evil Xenophobic Imperialist Empire Of Privileged Straight White Men's unrestricted deployment of Assassin Droids targeted using dodgy information obtained through torture that slaughter innocents by the bucketload (almost always children at weddings) in their villainous attempts to suppress same-sex marriage and ethnic minorities?

If it comes to it, I'd so much prefer the blacker than black villains of Star Wars to be a caricature of Nazis than of the Republican party/The NRA/Middle America etc.

Yeah, I had my doubts as well but now it seems that the cat is indeed out of the bag. Welcome back Erik!

Captain America comes from a time when America and Freedom meant something more, but was also clearly defined... that's his thing. The cool thing is seeing how he reacts in the shades of gray world of today.

Saying you can't have a story with modern concerns (and what Captain America feels about them) is ludicrous. Especially when saying that Godzilla should have more realism, but Captain America can't deal with modern issues.

Winter Soldier is one of my favorite super heroes movies, and is basically adapted from several comic book arcs. I don't feel that way because of any political statements the film makes, it's just a fantastic Superhero film. I think you are reading too much into it.

Villains are portrayed doing villainous things, not to offend you, but because they are villains. If youre projecting your political views onto that, then that's your problem.

(I don't fall solidly into either political camp, because they are both full of idiots. I also don't really discuss politics, and am only doing so here because it's insulting to writers and filmmakers to paste your political views onto their works and stories. and call it their agendas.)

As for the human parts of Godzilla, it's hard for me to discuss it without spoilering the whole film (and I hate people that do that), but the human parts are not a problem unto themselves... I don't mind a slow build (although, why slow build? We all know it's Godzilla).

It's the fact that the human parts of the story are boring as crap, like sleep inducing boring, and all amount to a zero sum. That's why I wanted to run out of the theater every time the director cut away from the beginning of a monster fight so I could listen to more exposition.

Go see it, and then tell me how much you liked the human parts, or are glad they didn't show Godzilla more.

See, I find you guys pandering on the forums to your own political agendas way more offensive than Captain America fighting against a 1984 type government. Captain America comes from a time when America and Freedom meant something more... that's his thing.

Winter Soldier is one of my favorite super heroes movies, and is basically adapted from several comic book arcs. I don't feel that way because of any political statements the film makes, it's just a fantastic Superhero film. I think you are reading too much into it. (Do you think "1984" is leftist anti-Republican media?)

Villains are portrayed doing villainous things, not to offend you, but because they are villains. If youre projecting your political views onto that, then that's your problem. (Plus, some things are just wrong.)

I'm not really sure which point you're trying to make here- and I mean that as respectfully as possible, because I really do want to understand your point of view. I don't think Sturn or I have implied any sort of political agenda or even suggested that we agreed or disagreed with a political agenda.

I'm not really sure how you're inferring (or why you're implying) that I think Captain America is leftist or anti-Republican, (and why would I care if it was?) or how Captain America even compares to 1984. No where have I stated or even implied my political leanings, and George Orwell's works were overtly and intentionally political. No one reads Animal Farm because they want a story about anthropomorphic pigs. The Winter Soldier comic arc was about Captain America coming to terms with his past failures, and reconciling the America that he knew to the America that he found himself in. It was about the Cosmic Cube and Bucky Barnes.

No one in this thread so far has stated offense at the content of political messages contained within recent movies, but rather the presence of overt political messages at the expense of the plot. I'm sorry, but it's pretty difficult to not notice references to the Occupy movement in The Dark Knight Rises, or allusions to the drone strike program in Star Trek: Into Darkness and Captain America: The Winter Soldier. The content of the politics is irrelevant to me. You might not see a contemporary political message in The Winter Soldier, but nearly every movie critic and a lot of filmgoers did.

I never said that I was opposed to the presence of any political message, but that I would be disappointed if J.J. Abrams decided that he wanted to suspend his Star Wars story to tell a contemporary American politics story set in the Star Wars universe. What I want is a good movie, not a treatise on the political leanings of J.J. Abrams, or a sermon on how I should be/should not be doing something, or how the government is our savior/should never be trusted, or how Republicans/Democrats are all evil/the only hope for America.

As for the human parts of Godzilla, it's hard for me to discuss it without spoilering the whole film (and I hate people that do that), but the human parts are not a problem unto themselves... I don't mind a slow build (although, why slow build? We all know it's Godzilla).

It's the fact that the human parts of the story are boring as crap, like sleep inducing boring, and all amount to a zero sum. That's why I wanted to run out of the theater every time the director cut away from the beginning of a monster fight so I could listen to more exposition.

Go see it, and then tell me how much you liked the human parts.

I'll be seeing Godzilla tomorrow night, most likely, and I'll be sure to let you know. I went into the first Transformers movie expecting to see two hours of robot punching, and what I got was Even Stevens. The human characters were easily the worst part of that movie.

Edit: Typos.

Before you posted, I had edited my post (which you must have already been quoting at that point) to sound less offensive. My first run at a post always comes across more offensive than I mean to be, so I suggest reading my edited post above to see what I meant to say.

That said, I don't see how you can say you aren't adding political agendas to films when you read the words "A Force For Change", which isn't even the title of the film, and assumed JJ was hating on whatever political side you happen to fall on.

I've seen NOTHING indicating there will be modern politics in ep 7.

I'm not exactly sure what you ARE saying about Captain America from that last post. Why were you complaining about it if you now say you don't care?

(EDITED for no longer caring.)

That said, I don't see how you can say you aren't adding political agendas to films when you read the words "A Force For Change", which isn't even the title of the film, and assumed JJ was hating on whatever political side you happen to fall on.

I didn't say that, though. That was ErikB/AluminumWolf/Sylpheed. All I said was that I agreed with someone else (Sturn) that I hope Star Wars VII isn't a political allegory. That's it. I never said you couldn't have a story with modern "concerns," or even that it was possible to have a movie completely devoid of politics. I even said that in some places, I expect political ideas, and I cited Star Trek as an example. Historically, Trek has been all about the social and political commentary. There's nothing wrong with that.

I wasn't complaining about Captain America beyond the fact that I found the political message in the movie to be immersion-breaking. When I saw the parallels being made by the film, I stopped thinking about S.H.I.E.L.D. and I started thinking about the NSA. I'm sure that's what the director/writer of the movie wanted, but for me, that detracted from my ability to enjoy the movie. A movie that, in my opinion, could have been better had it stayed more faithful to the source material.

When referring to the movie, I was mostly just using it as an example of what I hope they don't do with Star Wars. If you're familiar with the comic arc, you know that it varies quite a bit from the version we saw on screen. The movie focused on a plot that was a very clear allegory for drone strikes and NSA spying. The comic was about Captain America coming to terms with being an anachronism, and about the hope for redemption for Bucky Barnes. Sure, those elements were in the movie, but they often took a back seat to "Nazis built the NSA."

It's not that I "don't care," it's that the political message (whether one I agree with or one I don't) is ultimately irrelevant if it seems out of place or distracts from the plot. I'm not bashing Captain America films or saying anything negative about them at all. All I said was that the clear and overt political message in the film (one largely absent from the comic) detracted from my ability to enjoy the movie.

You brought up 1984, a movie based on a George Orwell novel that is inherently political. Yes, there is a story, but the story is a delivery mechanism for Orwell's political message. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. My problem is with the hypothetical situation of being sold a Star Wars film and instead getting a political sermon. Even if I agree with that sermon.

Bad guys in films are just bad guys doing bad things, sensationalized not to piss you off but to take it to extreme... Because then that guy is obviously the bad guy. Everythings not a political agenda. To say a Star Wars movie can't have relatable politics to the modern age is crazy. All the other films have.

I don't take it personally when films are politicized, nor do I look for an evil political agenda in every bit of media that I consume. However, the films that I cited (Star Trek: Into Darkness, The Dark Knight Rises, Captain America: The Winter Soldier) are undeniably vehicles for a contemporary political message.

See, there's a difference between incorporating characters with political ideas that aren't far from our own, and presenting a ham-fisted, preachy, political allegory. Of course there are political elements in Star Wars. No one is suggesting that there aren't or that there shouldn't be. But the political messages in Star Wars are so much more complex and ambiguous than the political messages in the aforementioned allegorical works.

Of course there are going to be characters with conflicting political viewpoints, but I don't want political allegory in Star Wars. I don't want to be beat over the head with the idea that Space President Bush or Space President Obama is the villain of the week because Jedi Master Mary-Sue said so. Let the audience decide on their own how they want to interpret the deeper meanings of characters and events.

Perhaps you're projecting, albeit unintentionally?

See, when you say you don't care about political agendas, but then cite films that you think have "obvious" political agendas, it's hard to follow the argument. Especially when I don't think those films were really doing anything other than taking something we can all relate to and sensationalizing it to the extreme (because once again, Hollywood villains).

I'm not even sure we are on opposite sides of the fence here any longer (as I was addressing the overall tone of posts in this thread originally, and not any one individual. Also, I was totally appalled that people were hearing this good cause and being angry about it). I certainly see no reason to continue arguing it.

Personally I wouldnt worry that JJ is going to political up Star Wars rather than make it a good film, and I'll be interested to hear your Godzilla thoughts.

I'll just end by saying that sometimes a villain is better if you can relate to them in some way.

I really, really disliked the last Batman film as a Batman story. It just sucked. However, I did sort of like Bane. His response to being told he was being paid a large sum of money was "and you think that gives you power over me?"

Best line in the film, because I could relate.

See, when you say you don't care about political agendas, but then cite films that you think have "obvious" political agendas, it's hard to follow the argument. Especially when I don't think those films were really doing anything other than taking something we can all relate to and sensationalizing it to the extreme (because once again, Hollywood villains).

I'm not even sure we are on opposite sides of the fence here any longer (as I was addressing the overall tone of posts in this thread originally, and not any one individual. Also, I was totally appalled that people were hearing this good cause and being angry about it). I certainly see no reason to continue arguing it.

Personally I wouldnt worry that JJ is going to political up Star Wars rather than make it a good film, and I'll be interested to hear your Godzilla thoughts.

I'll just end by saying that sometimes a villain is better if you can relate to them in some way.

I really, really disliked the last Batman film as a Batman story. It just sucked. However, I did sort of like Bane. His response to being told he was being paid a large sum of money was "and you think that gives you power over me?"

Best line in the film, because I could relate.

I'm not sure how to articulate what I've been saying any more simply than that I don't care about the content of a political message, because ultimately I will be put off by the presence of political allegory. Perhaps someone else can better articulate what I am trying to say, because clearly we are not communicating effectively.

Some of the movies I cited as examples of obvious political messages are movies where the actors and directors have openly made statements about how their films address those political issues.

“The whole theme of the film, a backbone without it being in your face and preachy, there’s a massive sort of comment about post-Bush/Cheney era foreign policy and the legacy from that,” [benedict Cumberbatch] told the Daily News after the film’s London premiere.

“It’s a massive sort of moral statement about interventionist and foreign policy, and how trying to do good can lead to even more bad and how doing good isn’t always good,” the actor said.

I don't think I'm projecting, or looking for a hidden agenda where none exists, I'm simply stating a the facts as presented by the creators of the films themselves. You may interpret the meanings of the films differently, but I don't think that changes the intentional nature of the political message present in them.

That being said, I haven't been given any reason to expect Star Wars VII to be a political allegory outside of Abrams' work in Star Trek: Into Darkness, and I certainly don't have any problem with the idea of a "Force for Change" charity. We're on the same page there, I think.

I apologize if I misinterpreted your posts and thought you were referring to me specifically when you were talking about the tone of the entire thread, and I look forward to discussing Godzilla with you in the near future. If you'd like to bring the "politics as they relate to films" portion of our discussion to a close, I will amicably oblige.

Also, I was totally appalled that people were hearing this good cause and being angry about it.

Who exactly was angry about this good cause?