So the idea behind the Howlrunner leading a 6 Tie swarm is all about overloading the opponent. With only two attack die, high agility opponents cause problems. Most of this typical swarm will also fire last, so high PS build will do damage before some of the Ties even get to fire.

The new ships, both already in play and soon to be, have added even more problems to this type of list. Solution for the Swarm lovers?

Howlrunner+Swarm Tactics

Alpha x3 (or Alpha x2 and Avenger)

Kir Kanos

With the upgrade to the Alphas, your total ship count drops to 5. The trade off is 4 ships with 3 base attack die. Kanos should start in the back so he can use his ability of trading his Evade for a hit. He won't be a likely target, but this might also force your opponent to take R3 shots at him to attempt to strip his token rather than take R1/R2 shots at your Alphas.) Howl will make one of the Alphas a PS 8 for the combat round and Kanos is a 6. Most of your fleet should be shooting before a standard "build for numbers" list. Add in a free dice reroll to the mix and you've got one heck of an offensive punch.

Because the Interceptors have a better dial and Boost, they become a better late game list as well, even after Howl dies.

While it can hit hard, my personal experience is that 15 Hull is frighteningly low for a 100pt Squadron.

The issue I see is that you'll lose ships faster than a 6-7 ship swarm. Firepower diminishes very quickly.

The issue I see is that you'll lose ships faster than a 6-7 ship swarm. Firepower diminishes very quickly.

I only see this as a problem if you choose to joust over and over again. I won't argue that it will take more skill to fly this list than a standard swarm, but this list isn't as limited as a Tie swarm either. Interceptors have a better dial, and Boost changes everything. You'll need to read your opponent well and keep return fire to a minimum.

X-wings have 5 HP. This list should take out a rookie before it even fires. B-wings are tanks, but you should be landing more hits. Y-wings and those dang Ion turrets still pose a problem, but it can only shoot one ship at a time. The YT is a beast, but won't last long against concentrated fire from this group.

Even if this list isn't flown in this form... I think I've proven a point that the Alpha and Kanos have a place in the swarm (or mini-swarm).

I'd be very interested in hearing how this works! Just adding Kir to a swarm, even of normal ties, has been something I've been thinking about but haven't had a chance to try. So far Howl, 4 academies, and Carnor has worked well for me, so this would be a fun variation.

The issue I see is that you'll lose ships faster than a 6-7 ship swarm. Firepower diminishes very quickly.

I only see this as a problem if you choose to joust over and over again. I won't argue that it will take more skill to fly this list than a standard swarm, but this list isn't as limited as a Tie swarm either. Interceptors have a better dial, and Boost changes everything. You'll need to read your opponent well and keep return fire to a minimum.

X-wings have 5 HP. This list should take out a rookie before it even fires. B-wings are tanks, but you should be landing more hits. Y-wings and those dang Ion turrets still pose a problem, but it can only shoot one ship at a time. The YT is a beast, but won't last long against concentrated fire from this group.

Even if this list isn't flown in this form... I think I've proven a point that the Alpha and Kanos have a place in the swarm (or mini-swarm).

So... Throwing 2 3FR and 1 2 (w/ Evade) dice you think will kill an X wing? You will roll an average of 2.68 + 2.68 + 1.00 hits, or 6.36 hits... At R3, you will do an average of 3.53 damage to an X wing. At Range 2, this increases to 4.39... Sooo... I don't see you reliably killing a rookie before it shoots. Nor do I see you killing a Blue before it shoots...

And note, while I said that HR took an evade, all of my damage calculations are against a naked X wing, so no defensive focus.

Edit #2: While I gave Kanos a F, he does theoretically hit harder with evade. Average hits increase marginally from 2.68 to 2.94. So while this isn't reflected in the average damage, you could add .26 to the average damage results and get close to it (it won't be quite .26, but close).

I've played all the Aces now quite a bit, and while some are better than others, there is only one list where I've gotten any good run out of Kanos. I am 2-0 with this particular list. Both were rebels, one was against Han Shoots First, and I haven't played against a swarm yet.

Howlrunner

+Stealth Device

Kir Kanos

+Royal Guard TIE

+Stealth Device

+Shield Upgrade

Academy Pilot

x4

You start with a typical swarm formation with Kanos off to the side (3 Academies in front, one Academy and Howlrunner in back, Kanos in back one full base width to the side. On the first turn, all the TIES go 3 or 4 straight, Kanos goes one less and barrel rolls in line behind Howlrunner, backing up as much as possible. This keeps him at a distance from the target but still close to Howlrunner. His ability needs that reroll. I have also tried it once with Squad Leader on Howlrunner to pass Kanos a Focus, but then Howlrunner dies early.

This was my Kanos swarm:

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics

Mauler Mithel + Swarm Tactics

Kir Kanos + Hull Upgrade

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

Academy Pilot

If you are going to include a high PS ship IN the swarm, it made sense to me to make it Swarm Tactics based. You mostly get to use his ability in the Alpha Strike anyways, so you want to do maximum damage asap. Also, shooting at PS 8,8,7,7,6,1 means Kir will have more info for spending that evade token correctly. His ability is quite awesome when you DO roll hits. I recall 1 or 2 times rolling 2 hits, 1 crit and spending the evade to add a hit, letting the crit go through a Y Wings shields, etc etc. I flew this in a pinwheel formation, the 3 APs and Kir in the beginning block, and howl and mauler banking or rolling in. It was quite fun, and I'm not too sad if any of the named ties die early.

The issue I see is that you'll lose ships faster than a 6-7 ship swarm. Firepower diminishes very quickly.

I only see this as a problem if you choose to joust over and over again. I won't argue that it will take more skill to fly this list than a standard swarm, but this list isn't as limited as a Tie swarm either. Interceptors have a better dial, and Boost changes everything. You'll need to read your opponent well and keep return fire to a minimum.

X-wings have 5 HP. This list should take out a rookie before it even fires. B-wings are tanks, but you should be landing more hits. Y-wings and those dang Ion turrets still pose a problem, but it can only shoot one ship at a time. The YT is a beast, but won't last long against concentrated fire from this group.

Even if this list isn't flown in this form... I think I've proven a point that the Alpha and Kanos have a place in the swarm (or mini-swarm).

So... Throwing 2 3FR and 1 2 (w/ Evade) dice you think will kill an X wing? You will roll an average of 2.68 + 2.68 + 1.00 hits, or 6.36 hits... At R3, you will do an average of 3.53 damage to an X wing. At Range 2, this increases to 4.39... Sooo... I don't see you reliably killing a rookie before it shoots. Nor do I see you killing a Blue before it shoots...

And note, while I said that HR took an evade, all of my damage calculations are against a naked X wing, so no defensive focus.

Edit #2: While I gave Kanos a F, he does theoretically hit harder with evade. Average hits increase marginally from 2.68 to 2.94. So while this isn't reflected in the average damage, you could add .26 to the average damage results and get close to it (it won't be quite .26, but close).

I was waiting on your math wing evaluation... lol

So the math says I'm gaining about a half point of damage with Kanos over two academies? If that's the case, I'll take that as a little (math) win to my theory.

Well, 2R = 1.38, 3R(+evade) = 2.94... So two academy attacks would yield 2.76 hits, vs. 2.94 from Kir... But that's a bit biased since he can spend his evade for an extra hit. 2FR = 1.83 each, yielding 3.66 hits. And another thing to keep in mind is what are you attacking since Kir only gets one set of evades whereas the Academies get 2.

Well, 2R = 1.38, 3R(+evade) = 2.94... So two academy attacks would yield 2.76 hits, vs. 2.94 from Kir... But that's a bit biased since he can spend his evade for an extra hit. 2FR = 1.83 each, yielding 3.66 hits. And another thing to keep in mind is what are you attacking since Kir only gets one set of evades whereas the Academies get 2.

I'm hoping that play testing will prove that the added abilities of the Interceptors will out weight the loss in number of ships. I think it's a more diverse list. Truth might be the better list is Howl+Kanos+ a bunch of Ties... but time will tell what fits my play style. Consistency is important too, so I always appreciate your input.

Keep in mind though that once 3 damage goes through, you've completely lose Kir, where as you still have 1 Academy remaining. I think Kir's ability would be better at a lower PS in all honestly. If he was PS1, you'd know more often than not whether you'd want your evade for defense or offense. But at PS6, all too often you're going to be shooting before the main grouping of your opponent does.

Keep in mind though that once 3 damage goes through, you've completely lose Kir, where as you still have 1 Academy remaining. I think Kir's ability would be better at a lower PS in all honestly. If he was PS1, you'd know more often than not whether you'd want your evade for defense or offense. But at PS6, all too often you're going to be shooting before the main grouping of your opponent does.

I fear this too. I'm hoping in the first few volleys he won't even be targeted because he's in the back. Mind you, if he is targeted, that means my opponent is giving up (potentially) better shots at fighters in closer range. That isn't a bad thing either. I'm with you that you shouldn't plan around the psychological game, but with one condition. The lose/lose situation. I think Kanos creates that. Shoot at Kanos, lose out on a R1/R2 shot of another fighter. Don't shoot Kanos and potentially take an additional damage this round of combat.

My initial post's list looks like fun, but I have a feeling that the following ends up consistently better:

Howl+Swarm+Shield

Kanos+Shield (both shields can be downgraded to Hull for initiative purposes)

Academyx4

The fun lies in play testing it though!

I know it was mentioned above, but wouldn't SL on Howl to grant Kir F + E be better? Sure, it makes Howl enemy number 1, but having Kir with focus + evade potentially should help to draw some heat from Howl.

Or am i off-base on that?

Seems to be working awfully hard to simply get Kir Kanos to work for a very slim advantage offensively, while losing a 3 hull ship as part of the deal. Until they have a modification that lets Kanos get an EPT and fix himself, up on the shelf he goes.

Seems like a pretty good skill, basically you always get at least one hit, even if you roll all blanks. Add Targetting Computer (or not) but it's like Opportunist and Expose without the downside. Against a B-Wing or YT-1300 you have a 5 in 8 chance to give a hit after rolling all blanks on attack. Seems pretty cheap for an auto-hit every shot (Range 2-3)...

I know it was mentioned above, but wouldn't SL on Howl to grant Kir F + E be better? Sure, it makes Howl enemy number 1, but having Kir with focus + evade potentially should help to draw some heat from Howl.

Focus, Evade and one re-roll, in addition to one auto hit no matter what happens...I think I have been neglecting Mr. Kanos!!