The new Mok says "once per turn when a hero within 3 spaces recovers a (h) or (f) you may recover a (h) or (f)."

Strictly as worded in my mind that two OR's are independent. So if a hero recovered a heart, Mok may recover a fatigue. I doubt they intended Mok to be able to that but it seems valid given the wording.

Thoughts?

I think that was the intention. They limited how often it can happen, but they left it flexible. The ability would be pointless if he has suffered no fatigue and could only have the option to recover that while being wounded.

Your interpretation is correct.

same here, so now he is a really good disciple !

I think his new version is weaker, with the limitation of once per round. Before, if those around him are recovering fatigue through various effects, he could recover a lot. For instance, if a Bard is around with the song that heals a fatigue from everyone within 3 spaces every round, he could recover most of his fatigue - one from the song, and one from anyone else who heals fatigue who is also within 3 spaces of him (since each person's fatigue recovery is a separate instance).

Now he can only heal one fatigue per turn. Sure, he can do it when someone heals a damage instead now, but it seems weaker to me now.

1 fatigue OR 1 life

I think his new version is weaker, with the limitation of once per round.

The point was to make him weaker. He was overpowered before. Even with your example, he's too powerful. There is very little an OL can do to overcome him. Even if he drops, if another hero picks him up, by the end of the round, he will most likely be back to full health. The only solution to that is swallow, and that's very limited. Honestly, as much as I love Ice wyrms, I would get really sick of them really fast if that was the only monster I could depend on.

True, I was just looking at the fatigue part, but I still think it's weaker.

I think his new version is weaker, with the limitation of once per round.

The point was to make him weaker. He was overpowered before. Even with your example, he's too powerful. There is very little an OL can do to overcome him. Even if he drops, if another hero picks him up, by the end of the round, he will most likely be back to full health. The only solution to that is swallow, and that's very limited. Honestly, as much as I love Ice wyrms, I would get really sick of them really fast if that was the only monster I could depend on.

I'm not sure I see how he would be back to full health by the end of the round unless he got a really good revive roll to begin with.

Sigma - you seem to be missing the point.

Yes, he is weaker. He is MUCH weaker, because in his original 2e version he was insanely, ridiculously overpowered. He got two big nerfs (once per turn only; only one of health or stamina recovered) and got an interesting bump (choose what he wants to recover) in return.

Believe me, he is still one of the most powerful heroes in the game. Being able to recover his full fatigue, every round, is an insane advantage.

Believe me, he is still one of the most powerful heroes in the game. Being able to recover his full fatigue, every round, is an insane advantage.

His full fatigue? He can recover one fatigue or health per round.

If you have ways for him to heal others, he heals as well. Do it more then once (prophet, staff of light, ect.) you are gaining health more then once + fatigue. He was broken. He is still VERY powerful, but no longer broken ^.~ I, as my heroes' OL, will now take him off the band list.

I do confirm, we're playing him on the "shadow of nerekhall" campaign as a Bard, and he is fully healed each turn.

Now, I'm curious to see what he will look like as a disciple, since he can play the healing almost for free each turn, assuming he has a fatigue before. And buffing a hero like that could be really powerfull. Imagine him with a team with Quellen and Red scorpion, and he will be really cool !

If you have ways for him to heal others, he heals as well. Do it more then once (prophet, staff of light, ect.) you are gaining health more then once + fatigue. He was broken. He is still VERY powerful, but no longer broken ^.~ I, as my heroes' OL, will now take him off the band list.

Yeah except that his hero ability specificly says "Once per turn" so it doenst matter how many heals are being thrown around, his hero ability will still only give him one health or one fatigue

that's why you must use characters as Quellen and/or Red Scorpion !

Believe me, he is still one of the most powerful heroes in the game. Being able to recover his full fatigue, every round, is an insane advantage.

His full fatigue? He can recover one fatigue or health per round.

I think you're confusing "turn" and "round". In a 4-hero game, each round comprises 5 turns (1 turn for each hero followed by 1 turn for the Overlord).

Believe me, he is still one of the most powerful heroes in the game. Being able to recover his full fatigue, every round, is an insane advantage.

His full fatigue? He can recover one fatigue or health per round.

I think you're confusing "turn" and "round". In a 4-hero game, each round comprises 5 turns (1 turn for each hero followed by 1 turn for the Overlord).

Lol, yeah That makes it quite abit more powerful indeed!

what about allies ? Is it an additionnal turn as well ?

I don't have the rules in front of me, but I can't imagine a way the rules could be worded where the allies DON'T get a turn.

There is an ability, I think from a hero or maybe a shield, that says when you take no damage, heal a heart. Ok, keep Mok cozy to that character and you have something good going there. Prophet helps him out allot as well. Quellen (though my heroes may never pick up the cursed elf ever again. Not after he failed attack rolls 50+% of the time) is another great choice. The list goes on.

Hey, wait. Why am I helping out heroes here? >.>

There is an ability, I think from a hero or maybe a shield, that says when you take no damage, heal a heart. Ok, keep Mok cozy to that character and you have something good going there. Prophet helps him out allot as well. Quellen (though my heroes may never pick up the cursed elf ever again. Not after he failed attack rolls 50+% of the time) is another great choice. The list goes on.

Hey, wait. Why am I helping out heroes here? >.>

Auger Grissom's hero ability does that, as does an act 2 armor (can't remember which one, I think it's obsidian scalemail?).

There is an ability, I think from a hero or maybe a shield, that says when you take no damage, heal a heart. Ok, keep Mok cozy to that character and you have something good going there. Prophet helps him out allot as well. Quellen (though my heroes may never pick up the cursed elf ever again. Not after he failed attack rolls 50+% of the time) is another great choice. The list goes on.

Hey, wait. Why am I helping out heroes here? >.>

Auger Grissom's hero ability does that, as does an act 2 armor (can't remember which one, I think it's obsidian scalemail?).

correct! I mean if the party is all about keeping Mok alive and working on min-maxing him, then this can be abused still. And who better to max out then your healer? Really.

Yes, he is weaker. He is MUCH weaker, because in his original 2e version he was insanely, ridiculously overpowered. He got two big nerfs (once per turn only; only one of health or stamina recovered) and got an interesting bump (choose what he wants to recover) in return.

I think you may have interpreted Mok's old power very differently than me; the way I read it, he only recovers 1 heart per time another figure heals, regardless of how much that figure heals. IE, if another figure heals 4 damage, Mok would only recover 1, not 4. Otherwise, I agree, he'd be way too strong. However, if 3 other heroes healed damage all at once, that would trigger multiple times, as each figure's healing is a separate "instance" of healing, so AOE heals would be good for Mok. The main change out of New Mok is it reduces that to only once per turn.

It's possible that was just the original intent, and it was just worded poorly, though. I'm playing a campaign with Mok now, and so far, his old ability hasn't really been that bad, but I'm still early so I'll see what happens. I've used it mostly to heal stamina, rather than damage.

I can see where Mok's old ability may have been interpreted the more "broken", "I heal the exact same amount you do" way, and I do agree that would have been far too strong.

I think the wording on the old card was pretty clear that each time 1 or more was healed on someone else, 1 was healed on Mok.

Also, on this updated version of Mok, since it's an ability that could trigger on other heroes' turns, he could still heal up to 4 damage or fatigue per round (if there are 4 heroes and the others have ways of healing on their turns.) Even if the other heroes just recover a fatigue with a surge, that can heal Mok a damage.

Actually it can trigger 5x per round. It can trigger in his turn. He heals someone else and that triggers it. Also it can trigger OL turn but that is usually trickier to pull off but others listed several good examples.

Thanks for feedback. think the general consensus is that it was not a straight nerf. It was nerfed down and then made a little more flexible.

One more thing to debate. If Mok is dead and another hero recovers a fatigue, can Mok use his ability to heal and get up?