Nothing is unsportsmanlike about playing the game by its established rules...rules which both players can leverage equally. Moreover, there's no requirement to play by preconceived notions of how a game ought to play out thematically or otherwise. Great tactics are devised precisely by breaking conventions and shaking up the expectations of your opponent. If a tactic bothers you then it should be encouraged and explored in order to see how it impacts the game. Blocking doesn't inhibit the contest at all and, in fact, makes it more nuanced and competitive.

So, blocking is not unsportsmanlike at all. It is really quite sporting.

Then you share with most others here in having no idea what sportsmanship means.

This stance makes no sense. It gives sportsmanship such a nebulous meaning that it has no meaning. The second you start wielding "sportsmanship" in an attempt to force your opponent to play the way you want them to play, as opposed to the way they'd like to play within the rules of the game you both agreed to play, you've taken a number of steps towards ruining both the game and the concept of sportsmanship.

This whole X is cheap phenomenon on these boards is just an attempt by people to exert social pressure to curtail legal play they seem to just keep getting beat by. They can't beat it in game so they try and convince others it isn't a legitimate way to play as to beat it from outside the game.

There is no reason, unless that is how the want to learn, to take the kid gloves off with a new player and relentlessly jam them with your ships in a casual game. Same could be said of barrel rolling out of every arc or dragging them around with Biggs. But you absolutely do have to introduce them to those game elements so they can learn what to expect, how to counter it, and how to utilize it themselves.

Otherwise you'll end up with another poster on here who calls tactics they have difficulty dealing with cheap.

Nevermind, I'm not getting into this again.

Which is not to say you should forego blocking entirely, just that you should ease new players into it.

Again...

How you play against newbies, should be different then how you play at a Regional tournament.

If I'm playing someone new to the game I'm going to take it easy on them until they learn how to play. But if I were in the FFG Event Center and sitting across from say CrookedWookie, I'm not going to pull any punches, and I expect him to play the same.

Which is not to say you should forego blocking entirely, just that you should ease new players into it.

Again...

How you play against newbies, should be different then how you play at a Regional tournament.

If I'm playing someone new to the game I'm going to take it easy on them until they learn how to play. But if I were in the FFG Event Center and sitting across from say CrookedWookie, I'm not going to pull any punches, and I expect him to play the same.

I thought the determining strategy was: "let the Wookie win" with a crooked one I would be especially vary

Playing within or pushing the rules but violating the spirit of the game is the definition of poor sportsmanship, along with general attitude of course.

OP here is off, IMHO. The other example of evading contact is against the spirit of a dog fight engagement and IMHO poor sportsmanship. But this tactic is able to be dealt with by chasing or boxing your opponent in. A similar situation occurred at regionals: My opponent fled a critically wounded TIE as far as he could attempt while still engaging with his remaining fleet. I did not consider that to be poor sportsmanship because he was actively engaging which is the whole purpose of a dog fight, while not sacrificing a critical wounded ship. Far different from just evading to secure a win. The later is nothing more but stalling but on the board rather than off the board.

To rectify this, I think it would be better if FFG added in a 50% kill requirement if the game is going to be called a dog fight.

Again, all just IMHO. But maybe some other helpful community members would like to add some insinuated insults. Hopefully I won't be accused of being a troll since I mentioned another thread since it was already been mentioned by the same poster who declared the exact same thing as trollish.

The other example of evading contact is against the spirit of a dog fight engagement and IMHO poor sportsmanship.

You mean the FFG endorsed strategy of evading contact?

I don't think it will us get anywhere warming up a thread, which didn't get anywhere itself.

the problem once you apply sportsmanship to stuff beyond the meta game level (general behavior etc), and try to use it on specific tactics it becomes very subjective very fast. Essentially it comes down to the question, how you personally like base elements which are allowed by the rules and which are offering certain tactics. As long there isn't an x-wing ethics committee agreeing on an official set of "nice play" rules these threads won't go far beyond venting personal opinions.

Not that there is anything wrong with that as long as it is civil, but you should limit your expectations on productivity .... hmm... sorry, forgot this is the internet strike the last statement.

To rectify this, I think it would be better if FFG added in a 50% kill requirement if the game is going to be called a dog fight.

And again that's how it worked prior to the last update of the Tournament FAQ, then they intentionally changed it so you no longer had to destroy so many ships to get a full win.

Don't get me wrong, you're welcome to your opinion on the matter. But FFG clearly disagrees, and trying to use Sportsmanship as a weapon to force someone to play your way is IMO the highest form of poor sportsmanship.

I never said I want to make anyone play any certain way, just that I consider it poor sportsmanship and akin to stalling when you avoid engaging in a "dog fight". I cannot change how another plays, but when I see behavior or actions that are less than honorable, I know it.

I would not classify FFG's change to the scoring as "they disagree with me" or an endorsement of fleeing. I do not believe I have read anything from FFG that insinuated you should kill 12 points and run like hell for the win. I believe their change was more of a fix gap measure vs the effectiveness of the swarm. Nothing in that I took as an approval to not engage an enemy.

What is not honorable about blocking?

violating the spirit of the game

Another completely overused concept that has absolutely no real meaning. Historically used in attempts to shame players or teams out of effective play.

How can you expect people to be held to a completely undefined, and in reality, undefinable standard? A standard that will vary from player, group to group, situation to situation.

How, in an tournament, is the spirit of the game not honest competition between two players under established rules and guidelines? Using every tactic or gambit allowed under the rules in the search for victory? But I'm sure you are going to come back and say it's something else. I'm sure another poster can and will define it differently from the two of us. There is no consistent spirit of the game to be held to so it's really disingenuous to start throwing out barbs like unsportsmanlike or less then honorable for not upholding an un-standard standard.

I really tried to stay out of this but just can't.

If you don't like the rules as written play another game or ask the mods for a homebrew subsection (I'd prefer a painting subsection more but this is becoming a need swiftly).

Spend more time playing and less time lamenting losses if you really want to get better. The better pilot almost always wins in this game if list building is also equal (luck being the great unequalizer). If you REALLY have a concern about a tactic, ask a question, don't make a statement. Questions have answers, often many; statements get opinions, often many, but rarely well thought out ones.

And for the love of the game, and all games, please stop trying to exert social pressure on opponents (past and future) to play the game "the right way". Either they are cheating and need to be called out for it, or they are playing by the rules so do not begrudge them the win.

And lastly... Myself included... There is a difference in discussion and argument. Stay away from arguments, more discussion around here please.

I blame GW. Over the years they have produced such crappy, broken, unbalanced hactchet jobs of rules that their players have been forced to adopt additional social norms of play just to make the games work, something that is actually encouraged by GW. Since GW has been so dominant for so long this attitude has seeped into the general miniatures gaming culture.

I blame GW. Over the years they have produced such crappy, broken, unbalanced hactchet jobs of rules that their players have been forced to adopt additional social norms of play just to make the games work, something that is actually encouraged by GW. Since GW has been so dominant for so long this attitude has seeped into the general miniatures gaming culture.

Fact is, everybody has a level of play to win they're willing to tolerate, and a level they won't. I refuse to play the clock in any way, but see blocking as a Beautiful Strategic element of the game. At the same time, I've literally never used the YT-1300. I Cannot make myself. 3 Range Turrets take too much away from the game for me to want to use them.

I never said I want to make anyone play any certain way, just that I consider it poor sportsmanship and akin to stalling when you avoid engaging in a "dog fight". I cannot change how another plays, but when I see behavior or actions that are less than honorable, I know it.

I would not classify FFG's change to the scoring as "they disagree with me" or an endorsement of fleeing. I do not believe I have read anything from FFG that insinuated you should kill 12 points and run like hell for the win. I believe their change was more of a fix gap measure vs the effectiveness of the swarm. Nothing in that I took as an approval to not engage an enemy.

But I'll be good and just point you towards FFG's own words on the matter:

“First, we made full wins significantly easier to achieve. Under the new rules, a player only needs to destroy at least 12 squad points (the lowest squad point cost of a single ship) more than his or her opponent, which means players no longer have to build their lists with total annihilation in mind and can opt for a slightly more tactical, defensive game if they wish.”

Which can be found here:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4750

You want to destroy all of my ships? Cool, go for it. Give it your best shot. But maybe that's not what I want to do. Maybe I just want to hobble you until all my friends show up.

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, how are we discussing this again?

Jesus Christ on a pogo stick, how are we discussing this again?

Sorry WW. I promise I'm done. :-)

I blame GW. Over the years they have produced such crappy, broken, unbalanced hactchet jobs of rules that their players have been forced to adopt additional social norms of play just to make the games work, something that is actually encouraged by GW. Since GW has been so dominant for so long this attitude has seeped into the general miniatures gaming culture.

Nah, this can be seen in every competitive community. Look at Smash Brothers. Or StarCraft. Or even cooperative activities like Diablo. Or Especially LoL. Hell, even magic has this kind of divide.

Fact is, everybody has a level of play to win they're willing to tolerate, and a level they won't. I refuse to play the clock in any way, but see blocking as a Beautiful Strategic element of the game. At the same time, I've literally never used the YT-1300. I Cannot make myself. 3 Range Turrets take too much away from the game for me to want to use them.

There is a difference between utilizing what parts of the game you want to utilize, and telling everybody else (either directly or with "shame" tactics) that those are the only real or legit ways to play the game,

As another poster put it if they aren't cheating, then you've got no grounds to say a disparaging word about their play-style, build, tactics, whatever. If you really don't like what you are having to deal with, you better find away to beat it because you'll likely see it again. And you aren't going to make any headway there wasting time calling it cheap.

Holy cow batman, the ADHD is strong here! Please try to actually read what I wrote and comprehend the English language rather than make assumptions of what you think I said.

1. Dog fight is a military engagement. Engagement is not a retreat.

2. I've never had an opponent go on a mass evade during a game. If they would attempt such I'm just fine chasing them down to their destruction. I still consider evading engagement in a dog fight as nothing but on board stalling. I wouldn't call someone on it just destroy them and drive on.

3. My win ratio is just fine with many tournament wins and placing 6th in regionals.

4. We are talking about an opinion here and despite what a bunch of Internet juveniles think, I or anyone else are perfectly justified in having our own opinions. Even if they don't match you opinion.

We're done here.

I blame GW. Over the years they have produced such crappy, broken, unbalanced hactchet jobs of rules that their players have been forced to adopt additional social norms of play just to make the games work, something that is actually encouraged by GW. Since GW has been so dominant for so long this attitude has seeped into the general miniatures gaming culture.

Nah, this can be seen in every competitive community. Look at Smash Brothers. Or StarCraft. Or even cooperative activities like Diablo. Or Especially LoL. Hell, even magic has this kind of divide.

Fact is, everybody has a level of play to win they're willing to tolerate, and a level they won't. I refuse to play the clock in any way, but see blocking as a Beautiful Strategic element of the game. At the same time, I've literally never used the YT-1300. I Cannot make myself. 3 Range Turrets take too much away from the game for me to want to use them.

There is a difference between utilizing what parts of the game you want to utilize, and telling everybody else (either directly or with "shame" tactics) that those are the only real or legit ways to play the game,

As another poster put it if they aren't cheating, then you've got no grounds to say a disparaging word about their play-style, build, tactics, whatever. If you really don't like what you are having to deal with, you better find away to beat it because you'll likely see it again. And you aren't going to make any headway there wasting time calling it cheap.

I never said I want to make anyone play any certain way, just that I consider it poor sportsmanship and akin to stalling when you avoid engaging in a "dog fight". I cannot change how another plays, but when I see behavior or actions that are less than honorable, I know it.

I would not classify FFG's change to the scoring as "they disagree with me" or an endorsement of fleeing. I do not believe I have read anything from FFG that insinuated you should kill 12 points and run like hell for the win. I believe their change was more of a fix gap measure vs the effectiveness of the swarm. Nothing in that I took as an approval to not engage an enemy.

Deploy le evidence!

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4750

"Under the new rules, a player only needs to destroy at least 12 squad points (the lowest squad point cost of a single ship) more than his or her opponent, which means players no longer have to build their lists with total annihilation in mind and can opt for a slightly more tactical, defensive game if they wish."

What else can that possibly mean?

Holy cow batman, the ADHD is strong here!

I am utterly disgusted that you EVER would use a mental disorder such as ADHD as an perjorative. Sociopathic trolls on various cesspit websites like 4Chan think it's funny to do that. I would think a forum such as this would be above emulating the depravities of such pools of 'human' detritus.

I never said I want to make anyone play any certain way, just that I consider it poor sportsmanship and akin to stalling when you avoid engaging in a "dog fight". I cannot change how another plays, but when I see behavior or actions that are less than honorable, I know it.

I would not classify FFG's change to the scoring as "they disagree with me" or an endorsement of fleeing. I do not believe I have read anything from FFG that insinuated you should kill 12 points and run like hell for the win. I believe their change was more of a fix gap measure vs the effectiveness of the swarm. Nothing in that I took as an approval to not engage an enemy.

Deploy le evidence!

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4750

"Under the new rules, a player only needs to destroy at least 12 squad points (the lowest squad point cost of a single ship) more than his or her opponent, which means players no longer have to build their lists with total annihilation in mind and can opt for a slightly more tactical, defensive game if they wish."

What else can that possibly mean?

Holy cow batman, the ADHD is strong here!

I am utterly disgusted that you EVER would use a mental disorder such as ADHD as an perjorative. Sociopathic trolls on various cesspit websites like 4Chan think it's funny to do that. I would think a forum such as this would be above emulating the depravities of such pools of 'human' detritus.

As to the ADHD comment. Eh. Not offended. ADHD is a gift once you're out of school.

As to the ADHD comment. Eh. Not offended. ADHD is a gift once you're out of school.

You not being offended doesn't make his perpetuation of stigmas right.

As to the ADHD comment. Eh. Not offended. ADHD is a gift once you're out of school.

You not being offended doesn't make his perpetuation of stigmas right.

But anyway, you did the same thing right in your post. Sociopathic means Antisocial personality disorder. And believe it or not, that has its upsides too. Mental health is a hard to understand field. Few of us, if any, are qualified to discuss it. It doesn't have much to do with X-wing. And again, people have a right to be wrong.

Case in point, much of this topic.

As to the ADHD comment. Eh. Not offended. ADHD is a gift once you're out of school.

You not being offended doesn't make his perpetuation of stigmas right.

your thin skin doesn't mean you can imply he was being intentionally hurtful towards people with ADD, ADHD or anything of that nature. Just drawing a comparison to a common symptom of ADHD and how people on the forum are.

BACK TO THE TOPIC

Bumping is not cheap, it's not unsportsmanlike, its a tactic

my suggestion, be a better pilot than your opponent or get your ass handed to you. It's a competitive game.