Recently while playing the Trollfens mini-campaign I found out that in just 2 turns with 2 dashes the OL can win the game. The unique search token needs to be nearest to Bol' Goreth which has a 25% chance. If you ask me thats pretty stupid as the hero's need to run through about 20 tiles and chop through an open group of monsters. You might say that the chances of the over lord drawing 2 dashes in the first 2 turns are impossible but with the Baron Zachareth lieutenant pack it is completely possible. And the dashes would not have to be played on the first turn. It would work like this:

1. Move Action, Dash (interrupt dash to pick up Talisman) Finish Dash

2. Move Action, Dash, Drop off Talisman

And as far as I can see once the Talisman is dropped off there is absolutely no way the hero's can win. Any thoughts on whether this is unbalanced or not? Or is there something I'm missing?

Any time there are unique search tokens, there will be opportunity for random chance to really swing an adventure. Here, you're saying that, 25% of the time, if the overlord has a very specific hand it gives him a big advantage? That doesn't really sound problematic to me at all. This, to me, is the overlord equivalent of "If the heroes can Immobilize the lieutenant on turn 1, they win" except not nearly as likely or fast.

Bo

Seriously, man? Come on.

Any time there are unique search tokens, there will be opportunity for random chance to really swing an adventure. Here, you're saying that, 25% of the time, if the overlord has a very specific hand it gives him a big advantage? That doesn't really sound problematic to me at all. This, to me, is the overlord equivalent of "If the heroes can Immobilize the lieutenant on turn 1, they win" except not nearly as likely or fast.

Basically. It's going to depend heavily on group make-up and overlord decisions leading up to this point too.

You might say that the chances of the over lord drawing 2 dashes in the first 2 turns are impossible but with the Baron Zachareth lieutenant pack it is completely possible.

I am actually going to use that argument. Assuming a game with 4 heroes and that the OL limits his deck to 15 cards (maximizing his chances of drawing dash), the chances of drawing 2 dashes into his hand by his second turn are less than 20%, so the chance of that happening and the unique token being in the right spot is less than 5%. I'm just considering draws from start of quest and start of turn. In any case, it's a very rare situation that the OL can win like this.

If this is the one I think it is, the Conversion Kit makes this one incredibly challenging for the heroes to overcome. The rules of the map say that Bol'Goreth or a Master Monster may pick up the poison casks and deposit them at the drop point. This seems to be written under the assumption that monster groups have only ONE master. Both Kobolds AND (for some reason) Lava Beetles could be used -- groups with multiple master monsters -- to speed up the clock to the point where the heroes had to really get lucky.

The time this happened in our group, Kunzite (the OL) had all the poison well on its way to the drop-off point. Sahla, using his heroic feat to use the Geomancer's Ways of Stone, teleported to a stone and attempted to use the Lightning Strike someone had found in a chest nearby. He missed. Sahla's player nearly flipped the table in frustration, and the map was lost shortly afterward.

Both Kobolds AND (for some reason) Lava Beetles could be used -- groups with multiple master monsters -- to speed up the clock to the point where the heroes had to really get lucky.

Lava Beetles don't have 2 masters. The only monsters that have more than 1 master are Kobolds and Fire Imps. Kobolds are slow and squishy, and Fire Imps are pretty squishy, too (although they are a bit faster).

They could really make it tough, but it would depend largely on what the Heroes have in their party in terms of skills.

While I can agree this quest can be over very quickly and therefore look very easy to the OL, the odds for this to happen in the way you described are too low to see any "major unbalance" in this quest, I think that's way over the top. Because it's pure luck at this point. So, bearing this in mind, the heroes should split up and use the map to their advantage so they can both access the caskets and tail the troll in case he manages to find the talisman first. The map is very dense and allows for quick access to virtually any tile within the next 1-2 turns, and that's not considering range attacks with Immobilize condition. Then of course, play a party of dwarves with no ranged attacks and you're turning this enterprise into hard mode.

I have played this quest twice as the OL and won but it was very tight in both cases. In one case the talisman was in the last casket and a hero found it first, I killed the hero and Bol Goreth was able to throw it away. The second time I played it, the troll found the talisman on turn 1. It made all heroes go for him and I had a hell of a work to do to make him leave the room alive. So even in that situation the win was not automatically going my way. Dash would have forced the heroes to kill the troll in one round or immobilize him. While I can agree that it makes the quest very short and a bit too streamlined to my taste, it's not an impossible thing to do, plus the heroes may like a quest when they must fight against the clock with so short timeframe, It allows for crazy turn sequences.

Both Kobolds AND (for some reason) Lava Beetles could be used -- groups with multiple master monsters -- to speed up the clock to the point where the heroes had to really get lucky.

Lava Beetles don't have 2 masters. The only monsters that have more than 1 master are Kobolds and Fire Imps. Kobolds are slow and squishy, and Fire Imps are pretty squishy, too (although they are a bit faster).

They could really make it tough, but it would depend largely on what the Heroes have in their party in terms of skills.

I couldn't remember which of the 'small fire monsters' had two master ones in it; Thanks for the heads-up on that.

Still, Kobolds have 4 Move (the quest is treated as an Act 2 one), and given the configuration of the Source of Sickness map, they can gain ground without getting attacked. Not only that, but they can't be impeded by hero figures due to Scamper. Fire Imps, while lacking Scamper, have 5 move and hit harder. If the quest drops early enough (or if the Trollfens is done as a mini-campaign), the heroes will be walking into an Act 2 quest with Act 1 gear, which could make up for the master monsters' lack of durability. I do agree that on the Heroes' side, it comes down to hero and class selection; Anything with Blast or abilities to wipe out multiple monsters per turn are indispensable here. While the map is compact per Indalecio's note, minion monsters clog up the hallways very easily (especially Kobolds) and make the heroes waste turns removing them while the master ones run off with the poison casks.

Once again, it's by no means easy for the Heroes to win (after all, the heroes do this one if they won the first one/majority of quests in the mini-campaign, so they should have some decent gear), but using monsters with multiple master groups seems to me like an oversight on the developers' part.

If played correctly, this can be challenging for either size. Bread is correct, I used monster groups that had more then one master. The only way to make it worse is if Splig was among the Kobolds and I had all the cards I needed.

But I didn't have Splig and my cards where not always nice, if I recall correctly (it's been a while). The heroes had the poison thingy so I had to do it the hard way, and still won. I don't think I would have if Salah's attack didn't miss. That was brutal.

But I have to agree. If you are counting on a one in 30+ chance that both your dashes or equivalent moving card is in your hand then you, as an OL, are in folly. Hat's off to "luck" or probability (as I like to call it), but you can't depend on it. The sooner an OL can put faith in plans with with a b-d the better. Flexibility is your friend. Mind games on your heroes is the next one. But your own master plan making due with whatever is in your hand or out on the field is most key. You can't always predict when a hero is going to blow up half your monsters, or one of your cards-in-hand doesn't work the way you want it to. *shrugs* work with what you got.

The same can be applied to heroes. Your abilities are not left to chance. Just using them normally does (seeing as that dice can be pretty fickle). Use that to your advantage.

Moral, I don't think this quest leans for the OL. Rather, I feel right choices on the OL's part can make the map unexpectedly difficult. You can do it, heroes!