Let's talk about xeno and chaos weaponry retrieved from the battlefield.

What would be the destiny awaiting a xenotech artifact retrieved? As far as I know, a dangerous and unuseful one would be destroyed, otherwise recovered for further investigation, by the Techmarines on the Watch Station or given to the AdMech Magos, with the aid of Ordo Xenos maybe. Retro-engineering, adaptation and that kind of stuff. Like the Ghost Field or the Runecaster in Rogue Trader [Corebook, pg 207-208].

Is that possible to cleanse the chaos taint with the aid of Ordo Malleus AND\OR Chaplains to redeem a fallen weapon and help the good fight? Maybe a little radical, but DeathWatch is beyond that I think.

In theory it is. Both the Gauntlets of Ultramar and the axe Morkai were both taken from Chaos Champions.

Deathwatch RPG has failed to touch on one of the most interesting aspects: using xenos weapons. I seem to remember Space Marines with shuriken catapults back in the days... why not reactivate that for Deathwatch? Of course one problem is that Astartes weapons are **** good. But selected weapons for Famed marines... why not?

Alex

Very useful :> Thank you all!

In theory it is. Both the Gauntlets of Ultramar and the axe Morkai were both taken from Chaos Champions.

And don't forget Yarrick's Power Klaw

And then there is the Crucible Resolviate, page 166 in the Core.

Alex

Note that some chapters, such as the Marines Errant, have been known to use Xeno weaponry anyways. Those in Deathwatch would probably be even more likely to use such a weapon when the situation calls for it. There is also the possibility of using a Xeno weapon to place blame on an assassition or attack on another group. While unlikely, it is possible.

But the Deathwatch is surely above such political maneuvering! Surely such assassinations would only ever be performed by the filthy Xenos whose weapons were fired! To think that the Emperor's Angels of Death could be put to such a use is surely preposterous!

Surely my usage of surely and exclamation points is not a lampshade being hung on this!

ROFL...are we talking about the same Imperium? Maybe I sidestepped a dimension again...

Where this would come into awesome use would be if you were doing a crossover RT, DW game. You best believe that a Heretek would be all over your blown open XV8 Crisis Suit!

In my game though we do use a reputation system with the various factions based on a number of factions. But I would be wiling to bet that you could get some sort of boon if you were to bring the right artifacts to the right people.

I would totally run that game... using Black Crusade as the base system. No starting corruption, no Dark Gifts, no starting insanity. Once Insanity or Corruption hit 100, start over on the "lolRenegade" track.

This is how you end up with an Inquisitorial mission-group consisting of a RT-style "not a Heretek, I promise," a psyker-guardsman, a "cleric" of dubious morality, and an Astartes or three who have sworn oaths to obey the Inquisitor and his mission-group who aren't quite sure what to make of all of the mortal "antics," but are quite pleased with the "totally not a repurposed XV-8" combat-frame that mounts onto their warplate. A plasgun that doesn't overheat, a storm bolter, an advanced target-assist and auspex system, jump gear, and one hand is still free for a power weapon, and it's all allowed by the Inquisition? Praise the Immortal Emperor!

On a related note, I think GMs should design missions to set-up ethical problems. In last weekend's mission my players found themselves on Space Hulk that had been converted to a Daemon Prince's flagship. The only way to get anywhere on it would have been striking a deal with an apparent daemonic familiar (which in truth was the Daemon Prince who wanted to get rid of a rival).

Which is exactly the conundrum I wanted. My players have adopted the meta-gaming notion of: everything Chaos will hurt our characters, so we won't even touch it. I don't think it was a conscious IC choice. So, I think it's only fair to put them in a position where the primary objective can only be achieved through consorting with the enemy. Which leaves a choice: prefer mission success and XP and some corruption but with more reduced renown rewards (deals with daemons) over mission failure less xp and only slight reduction in renown rewards? There is a reason why people fall to Chaos or the lure of the Xeno after all... if it was all so easy and obvious, it would never happen.

I see it similar with tainted gear. My players wouldn't even touch that traitor's Terminator armour, which had been covered with the "wounds" of the Stigmartus.

Alex

Fascinating idea...consider it stolen!

On a related note, I think GMs should design missions to set-up ethical problems. In last weekend's mission my players found themselves on Space Hulk that had been converted to a Daemon Prince's flagship. The only way to get anywhere on it would have been striking a deal with an apparent daemonic familiar (which in truth was the Daemon Prince who wanted to get rid of a rival).

Which is exactly the conundrum I wanted. My players have adopted the meta-gaming notion of: everything Chaos will hurt our characters, so we won't even touch it. I don't think it was a conscious IC choice. So, I think it's only fair to put them in a position where the primary objective can only be achieved through consorting with the enemy. Which leaves a choice: prefer mission success and XP and some corruption but with more reduced renown rewards (deals with daemons) over mission failure less xp and only slight reduction in renown rewards? There is a reason why people fall to Chaos or the lure of the Xeno after all... if it was all so easy and obvious, it would never happen.

I see it similar with tainted gear. My players wouldn't even touch that traitor's Terminator armour, which had been covered with the "wounds" of the Stigmartus.

Alex

Fascinating Idea!!! Consider it stolen...

If my players were metagaming the assumption that all Chaos gear was horribly tainted and would make you grow a second head if wielded, then the first time they turned such equipment over to the Inquisition they would get a hearty thanks for having rescued the Holy Mauling Device of St. Rupert. Guess what the next haul of tainted equipment would be?

Chaos relics ARE tainted, that's not metagame :|

Also, is not Marines power to keep spoils of war, a tainted piece of wargear should be given to a DW Chaplain\Librarian for further analysis.

Alex explicitly and specifically stated that he believes his players are meta-gaming this notion and that it was not a conscious IC decision.

But you're right, such stuff should be handed over to the DW Librarium, and I don't know how much access the Big "I" has to that, although it could just as easily be the Chief Epistolary saying, "OMG like dudes! Thanks for the Sacred Bleeding Heart of Saint Ducttape! We owe you a high fiver!"

Alex explicitly and specifically stated that he believes his players are meta-gaming this notion and that it was not a conscious IC decision.

But you're right, such stuff should be handed over to the DW Librarium, and I don't know how much access the Big "I" has to that, although it could just as easily be the Chief Epistolary saying, "OMG like dudes! Thanks for the Sacred Bleeding Heart of Saint Ducttape! We owe you a high fiver!"

Coffee through the nose. Hot coffee. Ow.

If my players were metagaming the assumption that all Chaos gear was horribly tainted and would make you grow a second head if wielded, then the first time they turned such equipment over to the Inquisition they would get a hearty thanks for having rescued the Holy Mauling Device of St. Rupert. Guess what the next haul of tainted equipment would be?

Well, the player's assumption is that all Chaos gear is equivalent to cursed magic items leading to their ruin. But if it's all so clear and easy - why do Space Marines fall for Chaos at all? So the way to go about it is to put them into a dilemma. Make them choose between purity and mission success.

My players were bewildered and a bit unamused that they could only fully complete the mission by associating with daemons (which they would have never considered). Such is the confusion sown by meta-gaming. "Why do you create a mission that requires such?" Welcome to the grimdarkness of the 41st millenium, I guess.

Alex

Poor players. "But... but... my perfect acheivables. My 100% success rating! I want to win, but I don't want to lose at the same time..."

Yeah, I actually saw some similar things happen in a Tolkeinesque 3.5 game back in antiquity. All of the servants of Melkor with magic items had cursed magic items that made the wearer vulnerable to things like mental domination and negative energy. They were also the most powerful magical items available for most of the game, which meant we were perpetually undergunned.

That was a high-mortality game, and about half of the character turnover was due to corruption, not death.

Well, I can see their frustration in not achieving the primary objective of the mission. Which wasn't achievable anyway because the whole mission was a hoax to get ahold of a Fallen but that's another story they are not aware of.

Ah, some players like being challenged by their GM and others like the GM tailoring scenarios so that they, the players, normally "win" the mission. In auto-cruise mode. Me, I think that only a few losses and partial successes make real victories meaningful at all. How else to build a sense of accomplishment?

Alex

Alex explicitly and specifically stated that he believes his players are meta-gaming this notion and that it was not a conscious IC decision.

But you're right, such stuff should be handed over to the DW Librarium, and I don't know how much access the Big "I" has to that, although it could just as easily be the Chief Epistolary saying, "OMG like dudes! Thanks for the Sacred Bleeding Heart of Saint Ducttape! We owe you a high fiver!"

Chaos taints everything and is basically the cornestone of the Imperium vs Chaos thing. Still not sure is metagame.

Well if a KT brings a most holy relic to the Librarium they would be exactly like that, and would get Renown to the whole team.

I don't even know HOW a marine could keep for himself a relic, hiding it from the Chamber of Vigilance, and not considering himself a ******* traitor for as a marine you own only your life.

Psh. They don't even own that. Very few people do, actually.

The chapter remade you. Without the vision of the Emperor, without the Primarchs who once carried out his will (and may still do so), and without the resources of the Chapter (and much of the Imperium) you'd be a cave-dwelling hunter-gatherer on some backwater, waiting to be eaten by the Great Devourer.

No, you don't own your life. The Chapter does.

You own your life only to spend it in service of the Emperor

The life of a space marine is spent chasing death. Their reward for a job well done is another mission. There is no R&R. They don't enjoy that stuff anyway. Can't in some cases...

There is only one fate for a space marine...unless they go traitor.