Conundrum that popped in my mind while designing psyker bad guy: assume that a character somehow gains Unnatural Willpower (the exact level of unnature is irrelevent), just prior to gaining a Psy level. Does the doubled (or tripled, quadrupled, etc) willpower bonus get taken into account when getting new psychic powers?

To take a quick example- Psyche McWeirdo is a rogue psyker, with a current Psy Rating of 3 and a Willpower of 29. He makes a Dark Pact with the tsi'arkhamm'tsunoi Ph'enqluutghele for immense arcane power, and is granted Unnatural Willpower (x2). If he then gains Psy Rating 4 (normally granting a number of discipline powers equal to 1/2 WPB (or a single power in a new discipline), and a number of minor powers equal to 1/2 WPB), does that mean he will get 2 new powers in his chosen discipline and 2 new minor psychic powers?
Or does the Unnatural multiplication not count for that?

Apologies if this has been covered, I couldn't find it using the search. Thanks for your opinions. And rest assured: just because I was writing a villain for my campaign when it occurred to me doesn't mean I'm going to hit my players with a Psy4 with a metric shedload of powers from this.

Unnatural characteristics double the bonus for every purpose except agility's speed. So yes, an unnaturally willpowered psyker is a rather frightening thing.

I have a tech preist with a psycik power!

this would fall under the same category that unnatural agility and movement falls under: your movement is based off your unmodified agility bonus.

so in this case, the number of powers you are granted per rating should be based on your unmodified WP stat.

however, all power tests would use your double WPb.

this would fall under the same category that unnatural agility and movement falls under: your movement is based off your unmodified agility bonus.

Why would it? The reasoning behind that one is that there's a separate trait (Unnatural Speed) for enhanced movement rate, so Unnatural Agility doesn't need to cover it - by using one or both traits, you can fine-tune what you want to get. Unnatural Willpower, on the other hand, has no such equivalent. Since powers are directly derived from the WP bonus, they're affected by Unnatural Willpower.

I would allow it to count but the psyker should keep track of what powers were gained from the unnatural trait. Since these are gifts from the warp, the warp may decide to remove them.

damere said:

The entire point of unnatural Agility is so that something moves more quickly than natural. If you use the unmoddified AB for movement, you are effectively ignoring the fact that the creature HAS unnatural Agility.

Kruniac said:

Except for the fact that Unnatural Agility states that it does not effect the movement, which is why there is an Unnatural Speed trait as well

Kruniac said:

to add to what Horus said, the Unnatural Agility and Speed have been separated because they cover different aspects of unnatural speed. Someone who has unnaturally fast reflexes 9Unnatural Agility) wouldn't be able to cover more ground then someone without such fast reflexes. They would just be able to respond to things much quicker (using the AB for initiative tests, etc). Someone who is able to cover insane amounts of ground, more then one would think possible still might not have quick reflex time (and they might run into trees a lot)... they can just get themselves moving real fast possibly with little control over their course due to a low ab and thus low dodging and reflex time... but damned if they can't move hella fast when pointed in a direction. ;-)

...And I totally missed the Unnatural Speed trait. Corrected.

Graver said:

the same way that un natural agil doesnt affect movement would be the same way that un natural WP should not affect number of powers.

there should be another un natural ability similar to speed, which would be, un natural affinity to the warp. that doubles # of powers known

Alasseo said:

Are you making an NPC here ?

If so, why does the answer matter ?

NPC's have different rules for gaining powers. For example, an unbound daemonhost has a psyrating of 8 and a minimum willpower bonus of 8, which should give it 13 discipline powers. Instead it only gets 1d5+4 powers.

*Assuming that psy rating 7 and 8 don't give any powers.

So which would be best for your game ?

Giving the NPC extra powers would make it very powerful. If you use those powers.

I would be against making another trait for Unnatural Willpower For the Sake of Powers, because while it does tie things up it is a bit too specific. Even how fast you move is more wide-range than how many tricks you have up your sleeve.

I am up for the character having to point out which powers they get from their Unnatural Willpower, because they almost count as sorcery. Maybe the DM would make them add +25% to their Psychic Phenomenon tests with these powers, or increase the range for Psychic Phenomenon to 7, or 8, in addition to 9. Depending on the details of the power, of course.

Asinus said:

Not necessarily. An ancient Eldar Farseer could (justifiably) have Unnatural Willpower (x2), given that he's a path-trapped paragon of Eldar Psykerdom, but it wouldn't inherently be sorcerous in origin. Applying a blanket rule to Unnatural Willpower in regards to psychic power numbers (as opposed to the far more significant and noteworthy effects of having a high enough WP to seriously boost a whole range of powers and having a massive static bonus to power rolls) seems rather short-sighted given the number of reasons a creature or character might have Unnatural Willpower (ranging from, off the top of my head, daemonic gifts, to advanced or alien technology, to 'simply' being an Alpha-class/Alpha+ or equivalent psyker, or even not being human just).

Cifer said:

There are (Minor) Psychic Power talents to fine-tune how many powers someone has. Have Unnatural Willpower not affect number of powers gained and build from there. We're talking about NPCs anyway?