Not on your life. Me and the EU have been through quite a lot together.

I see your point, and the ships with Nostalgic connections are always gonna be in my squads. Might buy one each of wave 4 buy I cant see them becoming a big part of the game for me.

I am definitely jonesing for the Z-95, because it's a ship that makes a lot of sense in the SWU, while the TIE Defender and the Phantom really don't.

How not? The Empire has a massive technological advantage over the Alliance and thus has significant credits to blow on R&D. Both are rare advanced fighters yet to see true mass production.

I am definitely jonesing for the Z-95, because it's a ship that makes a lot of sense in the SWU, while the TIE Defender and the Phantom really don't.

How not? The Empire has a massive technological advantage over the Alliance and thus has significant credits to blow on R&D. Both are rare advanced fighters yet to see true mass production.

Both good points.

From my perspective (YMMV), they contradict the Empire's naval procurement and tactical doctrines. The TIE swarm - TONS of small, agile, and cheap ships - fits their doctrine perfectly. I'm not saying it's impossible that the Empire could have created them, it just seems out-of-character for them to have done so.

I get the meta reason for FFG wanting to produce them, and for people wanting to play them. I'm just saying that they go against my understanding of the Empire.

When this game progresses to the point where players are no longer using X-Wings, Y-Wings, TIE fighters, Interceptors, The Falcon, Slave I, or any of those iconic ships from the movies, I think then you could have an argument about EU taking over. Until then, I think the EU is taking its place within the game alongside the iconic starfighters.

This.

The biggest thing for me that takes this game from good to great is the fact that with every release, the old ships are revitalized and renewed, giving us new and exciting ways to play with our old ships. I am hard pressed to think of any other games that can consistantly claim that they can do that.

The day that we scoff at Wave 1 is the day that I am done.

When this game progresses to the point where players are no longer using X-Wings, Y-Wings, TIE fighters, Interceptors, The Falcon, Slave I, or any of those iconic ships from the movies, I think then you could have an argument about EU taking over. Until then, I think the EU is taking its place within the game alongside the iconic starfighters.

This.

The biggest thing for me that takes this game from good to great is the fact that with every release, the old ships are revitalized and renewed, giving us new and exciting ways to play with our old ships. I am hard pressed to think of any other games that can consistantly claim that they can do that.

The day that we scoff at Wave 1 is the day that I am done.

I agree about the TIE Advanced, but the rest see consistant, if not dominating presence today. TIE Swarms, X-Wings are more than competitive, and the Y-Wing is often used as Ion support.

We very well might see a Chardaan Refit style "fix" for the TIE Advanced as well. We'll see.

Wow, that's hardcore. Do you also only allow Biggs to fly with Luke during a Death Star trench run battle?

Obviously you should do whatever is most fun for you. But Star Wars is supposed to spur your imagination, not limit it. That outlook just seems weird to me, where exactly copying the movies is more important than using your imagination to create your own stories.

This is actually exactly why I have virtually zero interest in historical wargames. You want me to spend $$ to recreate exactly a battle we already know the outcome to?

I think there are two main factor in attracting players to this game, Star Wars nostalgia, and gameplay. If your intrests lean significantly more towards nostalgia, then you should stick with the ships you're familiar with. If it's the gameplay that you love, get the ships that fit your playstyle. None of us should really care what others choose to include or exclude.

I'm a fan of the Original Trilogy, but what really attracts me to Star Wars RPGs (FFG & WEG) and X-Wing minis is that they are well designed, fun, and fast paced games. The fact that it's a setting that I love is an added plus. When I see a game with the Star Wars title I know it's something that the publisher had to put a lot of thought into designing, because 1) it's an expensive license to hold, so they better get it right, 2) the fans are nit-picky as hell, so they better get it right, 3) to get it right means making it fast paced and full of action, like the films they emulate.

So, I'm not familiar with the HWK, E-Wing, Defender, or Phantom, and looking at them I can't help but see the low-polygon 90's video game design they have. I look at what they can bring to the table, and that has me very excited to try them out.

On a side note, even though I'm not crazy about the design of the Defender or Phantom, they are the only Imp starfighters that don't cut off their pilot's peripheral vision with a set of barn doors on either side of them. So they've got that going for them at least.

This is actually exactly why I have virtually zero interest in historical wargames. You want me to spend $$ to recreate exactly a battle we already know the outcome to?

Historical wargames provide an interesting means to learn about historical battles I guess, but how does that saying go?

"Those who do not learn history are doomed to repeat it." - George Santayana

I've learned that I do not want to regularly repeat history on my tabletop.

I am definitely jonesing for the Z-95, because it's a ship that makes a lot of sense in the SWU, while the TIE Defender and the Phantom really don't.

How not? The Empire has a massive technological advantage over the Alliance and thus has significant credits to blow on R&D. Both are rare advanced fighters yet to see true mass production.

Both good points.

From my perspective (YMMV), they contradict the Empire's naval procurement and tactical doctrines. The TIE swarm - TONS of small, agile, and cheap ships - fits their doctrine perfectly. I'm not saying it's impossible that the Empire could have created them, it just seems out-of-character for them to have done so.

I get the meta reason for FFG wanting to produce them, and for people wanting to play them. I'm just saying that they go against my understanding of the Empire.

The Phantom's an experiment into cloaked fighters. It's expensive because it's a testbed. It's also got pretty good recon applications for rooting out rebel bases. As for Imperial doctrine, I'd say it fits the ruling through fear aspect. You can't see these fighters. They could be anywhere. They're like the ISB of TIE fighters.

Were the TIE defender a medium fighter like the X-wing, I'd agree with you that it doesn't fit the Imperials very well, and the way FFG phrased "a fundamental shift in Imperial doctrine" made even me, someone who ranks the Defender second in the list of awesome TIE fighters, feel like it didn't fit. However, the TIE defender isn't a medium craft. It's the empire pouring loads of money and gun into one ship. Compare it to other TIEs and it's huge. The ship itself looks like a razor-sharp claw or the jaws of some terrifying alien beast. The Empire has shown themselves to be pretty fond of "indestructible" supercraft that send rebels running at the sight of them. AT-ATs. Star Destroyers. Super Star Destroyers. I'd say that where the TIE defender fits in. Enough TIE fighters to block out the sun scares rebellious (read: 1% drop in turnout on We Love The Emperor day relative to last year) worlds, but as the Galactic Civil War goes on that's not going to scare rebel pilots that regularly take down whole squadrons of them with minimal losses. A squadron of craft that can do the same to their X-wings? That'll scare 'em.

I'll keep it short. If a ship looks useful in the game its on the list for potential purchase. my favorite ships are the Outrider and the Nebulon Ranger so that illustrates my opinion on the EU.

I think I'm different than OP, though. I think I've spent 20 years with Star Wars being a constantly growing and evolving universe. For me it didn't end with Jedi, but merely went on hiatus until Heir to the Empire. Since then, I've read and played some outstanding Star Wars.

I'm guessing this is a generational thing. I'm probably closer in age to the OP, though I did grow up with the PC game as well as the Heir to the Empire trilogy. Those and the D6 roleplaying game.

It's amazing how the SWU really has exploded these last 20 years. It's been hard for old fogeys to really keep up with it anymore. There's also such variation in the quality of the products (as there always was... Holiday Special anyone?), that it's hard to know what to absorb and what to shy away from.

At this point, I'm not even sure the Original Trilogy makes my top 10 best Star Wars stories.

Now you're just talking heresy.

Man, I'm 36. I'd like to think of myself as a young whippersnapper, but....

****, i think im gonna get one of each wave4 ship. Those upgrades are just too good to ignore [checks status of piggy bank].

Man, I'm 36. I'd like to think of myself as a young whippersnapper, but....

I sort of agree with the OP

I'm 43 with a great love for the original films, none for the prequels. Never played the PC games or read the graphic novels except shadow of the empire. Read a few Rogue squadron books.

The EU holds nothing for me. I read a post about "not using a few of the pilots and upgrades then". Its not about that. Pilots are fine, upgrades are fine. My issue is with ships that have no place in my movie memories.

I currently own 5 Ties, 3 181st (EU...cough!), 2 Royal Guard(EU...cough cough), 2 Firesprays with one painted as Kath Skarlett(EU), 3 x wings and 2 b-wings. No Tie Advance, in my mind Vader flew once in all the films because he was tamping, he wouldn't feature in every dogfight. No Tie bombers or shuttles, minimal screen time. To me Star Wars is X wings and Tie fighter scrapping it out. I've no plans on extending my forces any further other than more of the same, with possibly a falcon if I enjoy rebels.

Just my 2 cents

I respect the desire to remain an Original Trilogy "purist" from a "this is what Star Wars is to me" viewpoint.

From a gaming viewpoint however, that choice feels very self limiting. So from that point of view [insert joke about that terrible, terrible line from Ep. III here], it feels detrimental to a gameplay experience so I don't understand that "pure" decision.

I guess I would compare that choice to only playing a Fighter, Cleric, or Wizard in D&D becasue those were the only classes in the Original Basic Set (read as Original Trilogy ie Waves 1-2), while also allowing the Thief and the Paladin because those only came with the Greyhawk supplement (read as Expanded Universe ie all the EU pilot names of Wave 1-3 and the HWK in Wave 3), and then choosing to never play a Bard, Monk, Ranger, etc. because they were introduced later in D&D's "Expanded Universe" (Wave 4 Onward) and therefore are not part of the "Original Trilogy."

Again, I respect it, but don't understand it. To each their own I guess.

Nobody's got any right to stop you going slightly hypocritical "purist" over a miniatures game if you want. Just expect to be shredded by phantoms and defenders.

Nobody's got any right to stop you going slightly hypocritical "purist" over a miniatures game if you want. Just expect to be shredded by phantoms and defenders.

This would imply power creep, which I think FFG have avoided quite well so far.....tie swarm anyone?

Against the king of arc dodgers?

And even if you do take down Echo with a swarm of TIEs, I see your TIE swarm and raise you Mr L.Blount's Z-95.

Powerful abilities on lone pilots. Does not break the game.

Current weapon of choice for me is Boba, Scarlett + special guest, depending on points. Not sure how it'll do against the new ships but I've never been one to keep up with the Joneses. Have to go put my Nokia 3310 on charge now

Have to go put my Nokia 3310 on charge now

For a secont I thought, WTH is he mentioning his phone in this discussion, and then remembered...

Well played.

Powerful abilities on lone pilots. Does not break the game.

Didn't say it did. Said that if you're going to limit yourself to the first three waves then your options are severely hampered relative to those who don't limit themselves.

Understood.

I agree that it is hampering to limit yourself to the first three Waves of ships, but Wave 4 (and hopefully onward) does not negate or make any of Waves 1-3 obsolete or less viable, even with all the new abilities and pilots.

To continue my example from above; becasue there is now a Ranger in D&D, that does not make the Wizard any less viable. Different tools for different jobs.