That snubby in DC, the "Fiver" is a cool hideout gun and is as good as a holdout blaster I think, better in a way with the Accurate on it.

So far that's the only good light ranged slug thrower. Rediscovering the EtU slug throwers kind of makes this thread moot, they have three very good projectile rifles, The Model 77 Air rifle, the Model 38 Sharpshooters rifle, and the hammer which as far as I can tell is more shotgun than rifle,all fill a nitch which I like.

Really aggravated that I forgot to check the EtU before making this thread. If you have the EtU, Those weapons are basically what I am looking for from slug throwers, I guess the CRB simply gave us a very cheap option for a weapon right off the bat, and hopefully they continue on the path with what they gave us in EtU, DC was particularly disappointing in slug throwers also outside of fiver.

I think you will find those slugthrowers quite useful when you visit that planet where blasters are not allowed.... according to the crb, slugthrowers are even considere toys in most worlds which is a bit strange in my opinion but it would make for an interesting scenario where only slugthrowers are used.

Beyond your realization that EtU has some awesome slugthrowers:

1) As pointed out, people treat slugthrowers as toys for the most part, so they tend to be easier to bring to places.

2) The don't have a power supply that can be picked up on an energy-only scanner.

3) I think the book states this, but it makes a LOT of noise (and wasn't there a note that it could be silenced?). Some primitives are afraid of that type of sound.

4) Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a note in the core book in the weapon description that states why some bounty hunters prefer them? One of those reasons is the lack of a "trace" when firing it, so you can sit in a tree, fire, and no one will know what is heading toward them!

5) Ammo types. One of my players requested a shotgun when he joined the group late last year, and wanted to know if we could add rubber bullets for stun, so we did.

It's pretty easy to houserule it, honestly, but now that we have some official things, this gets easier.

6) Roleplaying reasons. Some species, like the Ubese, love things that can explode. Slugthrowers are perfect for them.

And this is from someone who used a slugthrower in the d20 version of the game!

Those are the reasons I can think of offhand. I am away from the book, but I can confirm these notes later if you wish.

Not all games are about the numbers.

Better to say that not everyone optimizes, so sometimes it is more about style and sometimes it is about the numbers. So while not everyone may use everything, when it comes to things like equipment it is better to give some extra options even if they are not the optimal choice.

I thought that was what I said, but apparently that's not what people heard.

I think you will find those slugthrowers quite useful when you visit that planet where blasters are not allowed.... according to the crb, slugthrowers are even considere toys in most worlds which is a bit strange in my opinion but it would make for an interesting scenario where only slugthrowers are used.

True enough, again that falls to storyline though. I was looking for a (game) mechanical reason to have one as a primary use weapon, style and story telling aside, I found it with the EtU splat book, but the handguns (light range) is still really lacking.

5) Ammo types. One of my players requested a shotgun when he joined the group late last year, and wanted to know if we could add rubber bullets for stun, so we did.

It's pretty easy to houserule it, honestly, but now that we have some official things, this gets easier.

Sadly there are no Ammo types just yet of course you can home brew them, but if I am going to home brew some thing I want at least the mechanics for it in the CRB or splat book.

Now, the Model 77 Air rifle does have two types of rounds available, and it is easy to home brew other types, Same with the model 38. Honestly EtU fixes all my complaints (as minor as they are) about projectile weapons. Granted they really need some good light weapons.

What I would like to see is a table like they have for grenades but for rounds for non-specialized weapons.

Not all games are about the numbers.

Better to say that not everyone optimizes, so sometimes it is more about style and sometimes it is about the numbers. So while not everyone may use everything, when it comes to things like equipment it is better to give some extra options even if they are not the optimal choice.

I thought that was what I said, but apparently that's not what people heard.

*nods* I got what you said.

The Lightsaber is better then then Vibrosword. The Jet Pack is better then the Climbing Gear. Should we start getting rid of those items too since they are, "pointless"?

Your taking it to extremes, which is not what I meant. Its not so much of This is better than that, so lets get rid of that. Its just me trying to find the nitch for these weapons, and it seems its really up to the story telling and that's it.

You've already been told the difference in game mechanics. Slugs are less effective at a cheaper price. Slugs can't be blocked by a lightsaber. Those aren't, "story" elements but real differences.

My comparisons were valid. Climbing Gear vs. Jet Pack. One is cheaper but can only go up and down, not sideways, and needs something on one end to grab ahold of.

You asked for differences that made the slugthrowers not pointless. You were given some. If you weren't truly wanting to see some mechanical differences and just wanted a reason to toss them, then go ahead and toss them in your game. You don't need justification from us just do it.

Slugs are less effective at a cheaper price. Slugs can't be blocked by a lightsaber.

Technically, they can't be reflected. Nowhere does it say they can't be blocked (and vaporized) by a lightsaber.

I think slugthrowers have their niche and we have all pointed them out. Some different kinds of bullets. Tranq darts. Less looked for so more concealable. One of the best sniper rifles in the game. Best hideout gun. I don't know as they really need any tweaking myself.

I think slugthrowers have their niche and we have all pointed them out. Some different kinds of bullets. Tranq darts. Less looked for so more concealable. One of the best sniper rifles in the game. Best hideout gun. I don't know as they really need any tweaking myself.

Agreed, I was simply looking at the wrong places.

Slugs are less effective at a cheaper price. Slugs can't be blocked by a lightsaber.

Technically, they can't be reflected. Nowhere does it say they can't be blocked (and vaporized) by a lightsaber.

Technically, nowhere does it say blaster bolts can be blocked by a lightsaber either. If you took a poll here I would think most of us would still allow lightsabers a chance to block those slow blaster bolts and at least make it more difficult (if not impossible) to block faster bullets.

If you took a poll here I would think most of us would still allow lightsabers a chance to block those slow blaster bolts and at least make it more difficult (if not impossible) to block faster bullets.

I still reject the premise that an energized-plasma bolt is going to move slower than a bullet for any logical reason other than "cinematics in movies."

But, I came to the realization yesterday that I don't really care if slugthrowers are mechanically weaker than blasters in this game. Blasters have been top-tier combat technology for millennia in-setting. They have some obvious advantages over projectile weapons which have been discussed. They're relics of a more primitive time, used by people for style (especially in hunting, where a blaster bolt is probably going to be nastier to a trophy than a bullet) or by necessity (lacking local tech industry level or trading opportunities). I'm perfectly fine with those explanations.

I still reject the premise that an energized-plasma bolt is going to move slower than a bullet for any logical reason other than "cinematics in movies."

Do you reject anything else you see? Lightsabers suddenly stopping after a few feet with nothing to bounce the beam off of? Invisible force field hangar doors that let ships pass through but not oxygen? Uber-advanced robots that can't even speak the most common language of the Galaxy?

I can accept that what I see is explained by some sort of in-universe technology. Lightsabers stop suddenly after a few feet (focused crystals and a plasma beam), ships can fly through invisible hangar force fields without letting out the oxygen within the hangar bay (don't recall the explanation), and blaster bolts have a low velocity (they aren't fast-as-light lasers but short bolts of plasma or particle beams). All of those were invented for cinematics reasons, but if you want to play in Star Wars you just have to suspend the disbelief and accept there is some unexplained technology in Star Wars our modern world doesn't yet have. If not, you are forced to start rejecting lots of stuff and you won't be left with much Star Wars in the end.

Yes yes I am resurrecting a thread that really should go away and die, but I just waned to link this in regards to air rifles. Holy crap they have gone a long way.

They also started a lot earlier than most folks realize and always were quite effective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle

They also started a lot earlier than most folks realize and always were quite effective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle

After looking at air rifles all day and I saw that, Its pretty **** impressive. I have been wanting to get a rifle, simply for having one, I won't lie, I am not a big gun nut but I want some sort of rifle, and I think getting an air rifle is a very good alternative (As much as I want a rifle, I refuse to dish out the money for something I don't "need".

They also started a lot earlier than most folks realize and always were quite effective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle

After looking at air rifles all day and I saw that, Its pretty **** impressive. I have been wanting to get a rifle, simply for having one, I won't lie, I am not a big gun nut but I want some sort of rifle, and I think getting an air rifle is a very good alternative (As much as I want a rifle, I refuse to dish out the money for something I don't "need".

What do you want to shoot?

They also started a lot earlier than most folks realize and always were quite effective.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girandoni_Air_Rifle

After looking at air rifles all day and I saw that, Its pretty **** impressive. I have been wanting to get a rifle, simply for having one, I won't lie, I am not a big gun nut but I want some sort of rifle, and I think getting an air rifle is a very good alternative (As much as I want a rifle, I refuse to dish out the money for something I don't "need".

What do you want to shoot?

Just target shooting. With an air rifle I can simply go out to my back yard too rather than a range (It helps I have an air compressor). Its real easy it seems to go from cheap to expensive in the air rifle world too it seems.

Then I would say an air rifle is a good call. You can get them to rival a .22 ballistically as well, so if you were of a mind, small game would be doable.

Then I would say an air rifle is a good call. You can get them to rival a .22 ballistically as well, so if you were of a mind, small game would be doable.

Thinking about that. I still want the Mini-14 for some stupid primal reason.

Man killer guns is whole different set of questions and parameters.

Man killer guns is whole different set of questions and parameters.

Too true, but with the air rifles out their, they can be man killers too. That being said there is a basic fundamental difference in the purpose of the guns.

I would echo that you should get an air rifle if you just wish to target shoot. It will be much, much cheaper to target shoot. If you get that Mini-14 it won't be near as fun target shooting when you realize you are tossing half-dollars (cost wise) at that target every time you pull the trigger. Buying in bulk or reloading can get you closer to quarters, but that's still not fun for me if I'm cringing each time I pull the trigger (due to cost, not kick).

(sorry if I talked down to you in the post below, I have no idea of your gun knowledge so kept it very basic)

I'm going to assume the Mini-14 you want for the coolness factor? I've always wanted the exact same weapon since I was a kid (in stainless), but I'm now 45 and still have not justified a reason to own such and I AM a gun nut. I guess that's not really fair though since I've gotten to shoot almost the same weapon (M16/M4) on a regular basis since 1991 due to career choices.

Here and here are examples of a possible solution for you. An M4 frame (similar to a Mini-14), but it's a BB gun. It still looks cool, it's cheap, you can still upgrade with "real" accessories due to the picatinny rails, and it will cost you around a penny or two per shot. The first one is a cheap pump, the second one is C02 (much more fun to shoot, no pumping) but the weapon itself will cost you more and add another penny per shot for C02. At the most that's around 3 cents per shot (probably less) compared to up to 50 cents per shot with a 5.56mm. These are a no-brainer if you just want to shoot targets and don't have Lando's budget.

If you REALLY want the look of a Mini-14, consider this .

If you are considering shooting at small game, of those three only the C02 seems to have enough power (FPS).

Added Note: Consider that if you are walking around with any of the above BB guns, everyone will be thinking you have the actual firearm, not a BB gun. Depending on where you are shooting that could lead to concerned phone calls to authorities. Even though most (all?) cities have laws against even BB guns being fired in the city limits, obvious BB guns (not the ones above) will cause less fright amongst nosey neighbors who don't know what you are up to.

Well this thread certainly derailed.

I was going to post that Slugthrowers are convenient for cost and rarity, especially if your GM is putting you to the screws in terms of what you can get ahold of.

I'm having more fun playing this game in a Rarity-4 enforced part of space where I have to use a sub-par combat weapon because it's all I can get ahold of.

I'm toting around my autofire Assault Carbine with a Red Dot and it has TOTALLY made the game more challenging.