Some words as introduction. My edge of the empire group did choose the Wayfarer Medium Transport as their start starship, which I was quite happy about, because not another falcon. But as this was their and my first try of the system, the pilot of the ship didn't realize that with a silhouette 5 ship most pilot only maneuvers were not possible and he had less stuff to do. So he asked if we could change the fact without swapping the ship, because he quite like it, besides this fact. So I created the following attachment as solution and would be quite happy about some feedback.

Combat Thrusters and Bulk Reduction
Some smugglers, bounty hunters and blockade runners retrofit larger freighters with lighter materials and abandon transport pods in favor of a more agile ship. Additional combat thrusters support the already installed engine and maneuvering thrusters to match the maneuverability of smaller freighters. This may only be added to freighters and transporters with a silhouette of 5 and is not compatible with Retrofitted Hangar Bay.
Models include: None
Base Modifiers: Ships equipped with this attachment, can suffer 1 System Strain to treat their Silhouette as one lower for the prerequisite of starship maneuvers for one round. This has no affect on the difficulty to target the ship or the difficulty to target other ship as per Table 7-4: Silhouette Comparison (p.235). When installed half the capacity of the ship and decrease system strain and hull trauma threshold by two
Modification Options: 1 Ship can benefit from a second Pilot Only maneuver if it suffers two system strain Mod.
Hard Points Required: 1
Price: 5000 Credits

My concern is that there are some seriously potent ships that would equally benefit from this (overly much so, IMO).

Ships, just from EotE alone, such as the CR90 Corvette, DP20 Gunship, even the formidable Marauder-class Assault Corvette!

All of these are Silhouette 5...

Now, if you just want to make this unique to the innocuous Wayfarer, for the sake of the PCs and fun-factor, that's another story. But I sure wouldn't make it available in general to any Silhouette 5 ship. No way.

I think it is a sensible solution (limited to the wayfarer as ccarlson101 suggests) but would make the following suggestions:

• Only half reduction in capacity is a bit light. I would reduce Encumbrance Capacity to 1/4 (still 212.5 for the Wayfarer).
• I would specifiy that the ship remains Silhouette 5 for purposes of Table 7-4: Silhouette Comparison (p.235) and that the Modification Option allows "1 Ship can benefit from a second Pilot Only maneuver if it suffers two system strain." As written it would allow more than two Pilot Only manuevers which makes it better than much smaller craft.
• Obviously, Combat Thrusters and Bulk Reduction should not be compatible with Retrofitted Hangar Bay (a silhouette 5+ mod).

Dood, I wouldn't care if you reduce encumbrance capacity to zilch/zero/nada, I'd still take a CR92A Assassin-class Corvette (from SoF) with this attachment all day long! And twice on Life Day!

Well ultimately I just want it for my group, but wanted a more balanced approach instead of just allow it without a cost. But maybe I should just specific that only freighters and transporters of silhouette 5 can take it? That should deal with the problem of the CR90 and DP20 Gunship.

I think it is a sensible solution (limited to the wayfarer as ccarlson101 suggests) but would make the following suggestions:

• Only half reduction in capacity is a bit light. I would reduce Encumbrance Capacity to 1/4 (still 212.5 for the Wayfarer).
• I would specifiy that the ship remains Silhouette 5 for purposes of Table 7-4: Silhouette Comparison (p.235) and that the Modification Option allows "1 Ship can benefit from a second Pilot Only maneuver if it suffers two system strain." As written it would allow more than two Pilot Only manuevers which makes it better than much smaller craft.
• Obviously, Combat Thrusters and Bulk Reduction should not be compatible with Retrofitted Hangar Bay (a silhouette 5+ mod).

Well I did not want to wholly cripple the nice features of the ship. I mean it only allows more maneuvers, The ship is still easier to target, has a harder time to hit and more problems in difficult environments. For the clarifications, well I thought it is obviously that this is the case, but I can do it. Upload a newer version shortly.

To me, this feels like we're moving a bit into cake-and-eat-it-too territory.

Why did they choose a Wayfarer over the other two options? Because it is by far the heartiest? Has way, way, way more cargo capacity? Can be retrofitted to carry a couple snub fighters?

Probably all of those things. Because those are all legit reasons to take a Wayfarer over the other two ships.

But now, its like they want to keep those substantial advantages, yet also have the ability to do all the cool stuff smaller ships can do.

I already slightly changed the mod, if you have not seen it. The main reasons for the ship were that one wanted a ship with more capacity and the rest wanted something that is not a known ship from the films.

My group picked the Wayfarer for the same reasons. Didn't even look at the stats or read the rules. Once we read the rules we knew we wanted another option, but yet didn't want to go YT-1300.

Just make it a custom job. Have the party know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy who worked on the Wayfarer line (so he knows those ships inside and out) and owns a custom ship shop. For a bunch of obligation, and a bunch of cash, have him be able to put in whatever mods you need to make the ship what you need for your group. That way, it's an in game, this ship only, type of mod. No one else can have it. It's custom. And make sure your players know that it's a custom thing too and that now you know the rules for what a size 5 ship is, that this type of option won't be available in the future because it could easily be broken.

You should check out the Retrofitted Hanger bay, it effectively allows your Wayfarer to deploy a couple of starfighters that they totally can do for space battles.

My players chose the Wayfarer too and were going to change when I showed them that Mod.

Removed

Why not just let them sell/trade the wayfarer for something else? I mean if the ships not working for them how attached can they be to it?

@Donovan: I would not reduce the Sil for being shot at since Pilots already have a talent that does that (Tricky Target) but instead lower Sil for the execution of Maneuvers. Otherwise the pilot is stuck with just half of the maneuvers wirtten in the CRB.

Not to mention a Sil 5 freighter would suddenly be as hard to hit as a snubfighter, but can't do a single maneuver those can do.

Honestly, as written the attachment screams out as being far too good, for many of the reasons that ccarlson101 noted.

Personally, I'd revise it so that at base, it just allows a Silhouette 5 vehicle to take a second Pilot Only maneuver each round, which is one of the big drawbacks of the bigger ships. Deep-six the reduction in Encumbrance Capacity, and simply reduce the ship's Strain Threshold by 1 to account for the extra strain these combat thrusters place on such a large ship. As a single modification, allow the ship to be treated as though being Silhouette 4 when targeted by enemy ships, making it less vulnerable to bigger craft and not quite as easy prey for snubfighters.

Probably also make this cost 2 Hardpoints as well, as getting the option for an extra Pilot Only maneuver for a ship that big is a heck of a benefit, as it allows the ship to both increase their speed and change range bands (either to get within firing range for its own weapons or out of firing range of enemy weapons), or have more options when changing range bands (making it easier to escape the bigger ships).

Well just to understand this right, having more Option with silhouette 5 freighters is too good for the trade of 1 hardpoint, reduce capacity and less system strain and hull trauma threshold, because It has to many capacity left? Because all other good points from ccarlson101 were resolved I think. The mod options was also only a idea if this is the problem I have no problem getting ride of it. But I do not like the idea for your mod, because there is already the Electronic Countermeasure Suit, which already does exactly this.

Why not just let them sell/trade the wayfarer for something else? I mean if the ships not working for them how attached can they be to it?

Already talked about that and he is quite attached to the ship and it is not that he said he only wants to keep the ship with this mod it is just that he asked if it is possible so that he has more options to chose during piloting and I as GM try to make to play fun for everyone and still keep some balance. That was the whole point for me asking for feedback and I am quite happy that I receive it, because one can not notice all problems as I could already see.

How about the thrusters cause strain to the ship every time you take a maneuver that is normally restricted to Silhouette <5? That way you can pull off the fancy maneuvers here and there, but at a cost.

That is a idea I quite like.

I had thought the original intent was to mimic the Combat Thrusters option from Saga Edition's Starships of the Galaxy. But upon reading the thread, the intent really does seem to be more of "let the players have their cake and eat it too" so that the OP as the GM can simply stop his players from belly-aching over the choice they made at the campaign start while trying to have the pretense of something that's "fair and balanced."

Guess I have nothing to contribute to this thread after all. Serves me right for trying to be helpful

Why not just let them sell/trade the wayfarer for something else? I mean if the ships not working for them how attached can they be to it?

This would be the more sensible solution, but apparently a "sensible solution" isn't what the OP wants.

I had thought the original intent was to mimic the Combat Thrusters option from Saga Edition's Starships of the Galaxy. But upon reading the thread, the intent really does seem to be more of "let the players have their cake and eat it too" so that the OP as the GM can simply stop his players from belly-aching over the choice they made at the campaign start while trying to have the pretense of something that's "fair and balanced."

Guess I have nothing to contribute to this thread after all. Serves me right for trying to be helpful

It just borrowed the name for inspiration and I only objected to your proposal, because it did go in another direction. My intent was pretty clear I hoped from my first post, but I can be mistaking. I also wasn't mocking you with my first question, I just wanted to understand, if I overlooked some more criticism and facts that I should take in consideration. It is not my intent to ignore all feedback. I was just toying with one possible idea and will ultimately find a solution for my group and it is not impossible that I will scrap the idea. There is no bellyaching from my players only because one person asked me if it would be possible and at the same time said that if not, it is also ok.

Pilot Player: "This silhouette 5 ship is no fun. I don't get to do any of the cool flying stuff. Can we do something about this so I can be more awesome?"

GM: "Absolutely! Here's a list of silhouette 4 ships to choose from. Let me know what you decide and we'll bring the transition into the story ASAP..."

Problem solved.

Sadly that list is a bit short atm.

Somewhat Sil 5 freighters are terrible choices for an adventuring group. You are so big that every fighter, patrolcraft and cruiser can either outmaneuver you or blow you to bits while you have a hard time hitting or damaging things. I'm stricktly taking stock ships from the published books so far.

If you want your group to fly something a bit bigger than the usual small freighter you have to either get a lot of cash to install extra weapons and better shields to rival a military ship OR you accept the fact your a nice fat target.

Since not everybody wants to up the arms-race i understand the desire to instead become harder to hit/more maneuverable. Tricky Target and an ECM suite do that although the ECM is a double-edged option since everybody KNOWS you're in the system. An upgrade that would instead allow you to do Evasive Maneuvers or Punch It seems a good alternative to escalating the arms race.

Jegergryte has an attachment that does just what you want in his Catalogue of Shinies:

Pilot Player: "This silhouette 5 ship is no fun. I don't get to do any of the cool flying stuff. Can we do something about this so I can be more awesome?"

GM: "Absolutely! Here's a list of silhouette 4 ships to choose from. Let me know what you decide and we'll bring the transition into the story ASAP..."

Problem solved.

As the player asking this particular GM:

It's not about beeing no fun, it's about beeing more fun. And more options to act in a scene bring more fun, at least thats the case for me and also within the group, i would presume.

And as for "just" switching ships:The ship is tied into my background, i had it quite some time before the group assembled, which in this case and character means, i will not just give it up, because its inconvenient. I would try improve it and i for one am happy to have a GM, that will at least try to find a solution, that will suit both of us (And, as he already pointed out, if we dont come to an understanding, then thats ok and will lead to me still keeping the ship ... )

But, as always, this is mostly a personal view i guess, no right and wrong.

And as to why i voted for that ship: Because it was not the YT and not the FIrespray-Class and therefore the only option left. At this point i had no clue about the rules and made my decision based on fluff. If i had known what a Silhuette 5 entangled, i would have voted for the YT-Models stats and just voted for a "re-fluffing" to another model.

As the player asking this particular GM:

It's not about beeing no fun, it's about beeing more fun. And more options to act in a scene bring more fun, at least thats the case for me and also within the group, i would presume.

But you have to appreciate that what you are asking for may not be "fair". You want the best of both worlds. The Wayfarer has a lot going for it. A lot. But in exchange for those advantages, its a bigger, slower ship. That's called balance.

If you guys had a CR90 Corvette instead, would this still be an issue? That's also a silhouette 5 ship. Or would the uber toughness and massive weapons arrays be enough to compensate?

Lemme ask you another (and probably the most important) question. Have you, or will you, be looking into the retrofitted hangar bay? Cuz that is a sweet option.

And as for "just" switching ships:The ship is tied into my background, i had it quite some time before the group assembled, which in this case and character means, i will not just give it up, because its inconvenient. I would try improve it and i for one am happy to have a GM, that will at least try to find a solution, that will suit both of us (And, as he already pointed out, if we dont come to an understanding, then thats ok and will lead to me still keeping the ship ... )

I'll tell you what this part or your post sounds like to me. And I'm not trying to sound rude, honestly. But what I hear is: "I've decided this ship is so intrinsically tied to my PC, that if the GM ever tried to take it from me (or destroy it) in play, I would not strand for it."

As a GM, this kind of special snowflake behavior doesn't sit well with me. This is a game. Things happen. The plot may go in a direction where the ship is put at risk. And if that risk isn't "real", what's the point? If you can't accept that, it's going to be a bad drive home for you that night.

But, as always, this is mostly a personal view i guess, no right and wrong.

Up until you say you want the silhouette 5 ship to function like a 4, I'd agree. But I stop at the cake-and-eat-it-too threshold.

And as to why i voted for that ship: Because it was not the YT and not the FIrespray-Class and therefore the only option left. At this point i had no clue about the rules and made my decision based on fluff. If i had known what a Silhuette 5 entangled, i would have voted for the YT-Models stats and just voted for a "re-fluffing" to another model.

Look, I play a Smuggler/Pilot myself. So I get it. I'd be a bit bored in a silhouette 5 ship too. We have a YT. But I've made it my own. My character is attached to it, insomuch as he treats it better than the rest of the crew. But I know this is a game. We could get shot out of the sky and crash it on some backwater planet. It could get stolen. Or confiscated by authorities. My character would be totally bummed. However, I, as a player, would be intrigued as to where the story went from there and what new ship options the GM had in store for me (because I trust my GM has a plan and wouldn't do something like that to my PC without knowing what he wanted to do down the road to keep a pilot PC engaged in the story).

Funny story: My character had a ship tied to his background, too. I gave him the Criminal Obligation for having stolen a ship. GM said I could (since I was the focused pilot) be the one to have the group's starter ship and be its captain. He even let me choose the Luxury 3000 Space Yacht because it made more since based on what I wrote into my background). You know what the GM did to me in the intro to our very first session? He crashed me into Tatooine. I lost the ship. Turns out we were playing Escape from Mos Shuuta. So we needed to be ship-less and stranded on Tatooine for the sake of the plot. Oh well. We ended up with the Krayt Fang by the end of it. So all was good.