There is a fair difference between a movie where the 'good' white guys (and their token diverse allies) beat up on the 'bad' white guys, and watching feminists and ethnic minorities (and their token tame White Knights) kick in the teeth of Team Straight White Guy for the crime of privilege

I'm ... not quite sure what you think people are suggesting here?

Also, shouldn't it be "Team Ignorant Discrimination"? You kind of make it sound as if straight white guys would have no place in a "diversity alliance", when them being an equal part of it is what would define that faction. I'm also not quite sure what you mean when you say "token tame White Knights"; that sounds like an oxymoron.

I mean I think they need to be careful the Empire doesn't come off as Team Straight White Guy, if everyone in the Empire is a SWG and everyone in the alliance isn't.

So make sure the Empire is bad because they do bad things, not simple because they are #yesallmen

Especially since their audience consists largely of SWGs.

--

I have no idea what everyone elses twitter feed from the last few days looks like, but mine consists largely of people strongly implying that they think all the worlds problems could be solved by rounding up all the men, particularly the straight white men, and putting them in camps.

Now, clearly this is self interest, but I just wouldn't be overly keen on the theme of the new Star Wars being the quest of the good peoples of the galaxy to find a Final Solution to the straight white guy problem.

I mean, I certainly wouldn't buy the merch. Or at least not as much merch.

--

For that matter, Nazi Germany isn't Team Ignorant Discrimination so much as Team We Should Kill Everyone We Don't Like, which is a somewhat different proposition. Is the Empire to go from Team Rule Through Fear to Team Doesn't Buy Video Games With Female Protagonists?

Did Luke blow up the Death Star to save the universe from a regime of Men Who Tend To Assume Their Girlfriends Can't Work Their Mobile Phone?

So Erik, what made you decide it was time to dust off your soapbox and return to your tired, worn out routine?

I have no idea what everyone elses twitter feed from the last few days looks like, but mine strongly implies that all the worlds problems could be solved by rounding up all the men, particularly the straight white men, and putting them in camps.

Please tell me I'm not the only one that recalls where the Report button is.

I have no idea what everyone elses twitter feed from the last few days looks like, but mine strongly implies that all the worlds problems could be solved by rounding up all the men, particularly the straight white men, and putting them in camps.

Please tell me I'm not the only one that recalls where the Report button is.

I remember.

Me too

Like I say, if the message of the new Star Wars accidentally comes off as that to solve the worlds problems you need only exterminate all the straight white men the resulting internet shitstorm could be... Intense.

Yeah, everyone got what you said Erik. And I reported you again.

Arkham Asylum is on full lock down with a discrepancy on the last head count.....

So basically, more of this, and this, and this, and less of the obnoxious, fan-service stuff.

Edit: Typos.

Still, Daala's significance notwithstanding, I think Pellaeon deserves a significant portion of the credit (though clearly not all of it) for the liberalizing the Imperial military's de facto (if not de jure) policy of discrimination against females and aliens. (He did serve under Thrawn, after all.) Well, Pellaeon's experiences and the desperation brought about by the constant loss of territory and materiel to the rebels are two of the main reasons I credited with making the Empire's military more diverse.

True, true - it's quite possible that, without his guidance, the conservative moffs might have rolled back Daala's reforms the moment they regained political control.

On the matter of credit, I considered it a nice detail that the most important type of capital ship of the Fel Empire was the "Pellaeon-class Star Destroyer", obviously named in honour of him (though this was probably for his role in the Empire's survival/perseverance in general, rather than any individual achievement).

When I first read the Jedi Academy Trilogy, I felt the same way you did about Daala's relationship to Tarkin. It was clearly a close, mentorship type of relationship built on mutual admiration. Rumors were going to persist no matter what. I did remember the nature of their relationship being defined as more explicitly sexual, though, so I did some digging, and according to Wookieepedia, the nature of Daala's relationship with Tarkin went from rumor to established fact in Darksaber, and was expounded upon in the novel Death Star.

It's been some time since I read Darksaber, but I'm preeetty sure it was not presented as fact. Either way, I can't speak for the Death Star novel, as I did not read that one. It's possible that any revelations on their relationship revealed there were mixed with Daala's opinion on Tarkin in Darksaber - wikis like the WP tend to operate by weaving a single big article out of many different sources, after all, which sometimes makes it hard to nail down the source of a single claim.

This is more of a problem in Wh40k, though, where unlike with Star Wars' EU a canon never existed, so that some sources were not even meant to synch. In SW, only the end result really matters to get a good picture of something, and here WP tends to be relatively accurate.

Anyways: meh! I would've preferred my interpretation of their relationship, it would have been less cliché.

I mean I think they need to be careful the Empire doesn't come off as Team Straight White Guy, if everyone in the Empire is a SWG and everyone in the alliance isn't.

It seems like you're jumping to conclusions. And don't you think it takes quite a leap to arrive at a fear of the rebels not featuring a single straight white male character? I mean ... it's pretty much the opposite of what people can expect from Hollywood at the moment, isn't it?

I have no idea what everyone elses twitter feed from the last few days looks like, but mine consists largely of people strongly implying that they think all the worlds problems could be solved by rounding up all the men, particularly the straight white men, and putting them in camps.

It ... sounds like you're frequenting some very strange places.

I'd really recommend to seek more contact to normal human beings rather than any extremists. From both sides of that agenda.

So basically, more of this, and this, and this, and less of the obnoxious, fan-service stuff.

Reminds me of a little movie I've seen once. Maybe there are some who don't know it already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUbmYfAF2i4

I really wish I.M.P.S. would finish.

I really wish I.M.P.S. would finish.

Agreed. Gold standard for fan effort in my opinion. Here's one to tide you over until then....

Anyone willing to admit they would rather have an IMPS RPG than Age of Rebellion?

***

To quote Ackbar:

It's a Trap!

It's been some time since I read Darksaber, but I'm preeetty sure it was not presented as fact. Either way, I can't speak for the Death Star novel, as I did not read that one. It's possible that any revelations on their relationship revealed there were mixed with Daala's opinion on Tarkin in Darksaber - wikis like the WP tend to operate by weaving a single big article out of many different sources, after all, which sometimes makes it hard to nail down the source of a single claim.

This is more of a problem in Wh40k, though, where unlike with Star Wars' EU a canon never existed, so that some sources were not even meant to synch. In SW, only the end result really matters to get a good picture of something, and here WP tends to be relatively accurate.

Anyways: meh! I would've preferred my interpretation of their relationship, it would have been less cliché.

You may be correct. It's been a long time since I've read Darksaber (I'm not a particularly big fan of Kevin J. Anderson) and I can't seem to find a solid answer on where the nature of the relationship was made explicit. It may have been Death Star, even. If it were to ever come up in a game I was running, I would make sure that the nature of their relationship remained ambiguous. To me, the mystery was far more interesting than having the specific nature of their relationship presented as "fact." Tarkin is dead, and Daala doesn't strike me as the sort of person who would divulge those details anyway.

Slightly related to the discussion of "more females in Imperial uniforms," have you followed Dark Horse's ongoing Star Wars comic? It introduced two characters that I thought were very interesting. One, Birra Seah, was a KDY executive who had the courage to stand up to Darth Vader during one of his rage-murder episodes. He was so impressed with how she handled herself that he appointed her acting moff over the Death Star II construction project.

Later in the comic, we're introduced to another was a woman who is only referred to as Ensign Nanda. She ends up being hand-picked by Darth Vader to be his personal pilot while he seeks out retribution on some people he felt were responsible for betraying the Empire. She's an interesting character, and has some fascinating internal dialogue about Alderaan and Vader's actions while he was with her. She might not have liked his methods, but she rationalized it as necessary because she had lost friends on the first Death Star.

All that to say that while the Empire may have had issues with women and aliens, Darth Vader certainly didn't.

Slightly related to the discussion of "more females in Imperial uniforms," have you followed Dark Horse's ongoing Star Wars comic?

Nah, I haven't read too many of the comics - though some of them are really great!

I'm a fan of the Legacy series (if it wasn't obvious from my description of the Fel Empire), and its Ania Solo-spin off - but I also greatly enjoyed those Empire comics about Janek Sunber, not only because their shift of perspective showed us a more humane (read: not moustache-twirling evil) and thus believable Empire, but also because it had some nice "slice of life" stories from a routine deployment. A nice change of pace from the usual super-important heroics.

Judging from the synopsis you linked, the story with Nanda seems interesting; I may have to get a hold of it! Five days with Vader must be some very special kind of hell.

All that to say that while the Empire may have had issues with women and aliens, Darth Vader certainly didn't.

Yeah, he'd despise (or, much less likely, grudgingly respect) everyone equally.

It's simply a matter of upbringing and social environment. Vader was once Anakin Skywalker, and thus knew how strong women could be by the examples of Padme and Ahsoka, and spending a good deal of his childhood in the egalitarian Jedi Order would leave him untouched by the taint of prejudice - at least when it comes to females and aliens.

Let's not forget he also hand-picked Shira Brie as an operative, and he approved of Mara Jade.

Conversely, sexism in the Empire might have been a product of the expanded influence of the Core Worlds, where many cultures may have operated on the ancient concept of noble bloodlines led by male heirs. And just as noble origins played a greater role in the Empire, so too might have various aspects of chivalry bled into the Imperial war machinery, so would other conservative "values" piggy-back on them.

And since the Empire itself placed great importance on the idea of feeling superior over others as a way of empowering its most influential supporters (compared to the Republic way of unity through equality), it may have embraced this latent sexism, even though it may have never been official policy (explaining the few women we know existed in its hierarchy).

Or that's my theory, anyways.

I posted a separate thread about how I'd love to see an Age of Rebellion adventure about the Rebels raiding the Maw facility. I would definitely like to see Daala in charge of it, but I don't think that, if I were in charge of how the adventure developed, I would even mention the relationship with Tarkin. If Daala gets back into canon one way or another, I'd be happy to leave her Tarkin baggage behind.

I would, however, love to see the adventure I mentioned also have room in it for Daala to escape and become a recurring villain in other adventures.

. . . and while I'm thinking of it, I'd be fine with introducing Ysanne Isard right off the bat as head of Imperial Intelligence.

I think Yoshiyahu was right, in that Vader was more concerned with competence than with things like gender or species. If you were capable of doing the job you were meant to do, he didn't care about other details. He had no stomach for officers that got their posting by way of family or political connections, as they generally proved to be less-than-adequate.

Of course, one of the big complaints about the films is the general lack of female leading characters (a complaint brought up again when the initial casting announcements for Episode VII was made), with the prequels being slightly better in having a few female support characters (Padme's Handmaidens, some female Jedi) but even then most of them didn't do much.