I proxied' and tried the new craft not too long ago to get a feel for these things as they're coming in. Since the Phantom ended up doing better than the Defender in that one game, I thought about trying to put together Imperial lists using 2 Phantoms. The hope here is to FINALLY have a worthy few-ship empire list that performs just as well as Rebel ones do, without relying on large ships.

I ran two tests today against:

Omega shuttle // Rebel Captive / Vader / Engine Upgrade

Bounty hunter

2x Interceptors

Ran two combinations today, using primarily Echo and a Sigma Squadron pilot, each with Advanced Cloaking Devices. The first list had a pair of Academies and the second ran Fel with Push the Limit. The phantoms had varying upgrades in each of their configurations, the first with a couple of crew and Sensor Jammers and the latter using Intelligence agents and Advanced Sensors.

I was admittedly closer on the second game to the first, but both times my Phantom lists lost. I want to blame it on my defensive dice luck never being better than "meh", and I had scarred up the list pretty well in the second match (one-shotting all the shields off the shuttle with one of the phantoms), but something seems to be missing.

I get that this is an unforgiving fighter. It was GG the first match when I caught the Sigma on a rock, taking one damage and being unable to fire and cloak himself. Echo wasn't too far behind. But the maneuverability and impressive attack in the hands of a skilled player should point to a superior vehicle. You're not going to win tournaments packing your list with it I know, but I want this ship to be as competitive as say 4Xs. Or is this just another Advanced?

One of the regulars at my FLGS said that the Phantom (and defender) are really best with just one and Hothie's article agrees, but I don't want to believe that. Could a list with two phantoms work? Or are we ever going to buy 1 unless we go forward to Epic play?

I think two Phantoms could work, but then in a 3 ship list.

For two ships I'd pick a Phantom and a Defender or Firespray.

Something like

Echo

VI

ACD

Navigator

FCS

Rexler Brath

Predator

HLC

Shield Upgrade

Homing Missiles

Math will say this is a bad list, but at least casually it'd be a fun hammer and anvil list.

You move Rexler first, have Echo close on his target, then have Echo shoot first and Rexler knock's em out of the park.

Posted elsewhere, but I think there might be some fun minimally upgraded dual phantom lists...


(98 points)
phantom + FCS X2
Howlrunner
Obsidian X2

Alternatively, instead of FCS - advanced sensors for 100, recon specialist etc...


100 points

Phantom + intel agent x2
Kath Scarlet, Squad leader, Gunner + Ion cannon.

I truly believe the Phantom will be in favor of the crowd at first. This will largely be due to the fact of its newness. Since cloaking is an action you'll be left with an unfocused defensive roll. Your going to average 2 evades with that roll. Any focused firing from your opponent will land a few hits. Since it only takes 4 hits to sink the ship leaving the phantom in the wrong place once could see its demise. This will happen for most players as they experiment with the Phantom and it will get labeled as to expensive. Now will come the turning of favor as most players will be dismissing it. One player will find a way to make the ship shine as the skill level for this ship if far beyond any other to pilot. The ones who will have success with the Phantom will know their movements and firing arks very well. Being able to plan that cloak and decloak actions is where the secret of this ship lie.

Thing is I didn't often make evade rolls with these guys. Usually I had the superior positioning and more often than not, I erred on deciding to stay out of arc than go out of my way for a shot. I lost one to average combat- plinking away shields and then a final hit-hit-crit. I lost another to stupidly landing on a rock, and in another instance zero agility.

But they lasted out past at least 6 rounds of combat, tearing up enemy ships. I would be impressed if it wasn't for that one thing missing to keep them really competitive. I like flying them, for whatever it's worth, and the more I think about strategy with 2 phantoms the more it feels like a puzzle. hmm.

There is three way I will try the Phantom when it get out.

First is with a named pilot with VI and Advanced cloaking device. Cloak during the first round and then never bother to take an action to do so, do it after shooting. This way you can still evade or focus to help your 4 defense dice.

Second is a Sigma or the other generic equiped with a Stygium Particule Accelarator to get an evade when I cloak or decloak. Free action is always nice.

Third is with a Sigma pilot, cloak during first round, and never do it again once I decloak. I'll fly it just like I would a X-Wing with PS3. Stats wise, that's pretty much it, +1 attack dice, 1 less hull.

I was trying to use my thinking skills on this on this problem.

Your base cost is 50 for two Phantoms, now what would I run with them,

4 Ap (not a bad option (48) downside if you use both phantoms you have 4 naked ties)

1 Defender (could use up the remaing 20 points for upgrades, downside is 3 ships)

2 Intercepters (4 fast beatsticks downside you are left with 6-10 points for upgrades)

2 Bombers (could use a very solid alpha strike downside 4 ships)

2 OGP (Entrsuting amount of hps and damage output downside 8 upgrade points when 10-15 are needed)

1 Hunter (good mobility and 27 points for upgrades downside 3 ships)

2 Advances (----- downside advances )

So in short you could pull off a 2 phantom build, but if you upgrade them your going to be limited to 1-3 ships. All I know is I want to run 4 of them and see what happens.

Whisperer + ACD + VI + FCS (39)

Echo + ACD + VI + FCS (37)

Academy Pilot x2 (24)

= 100

Whisperer + ACD + VI + FCS (39)

Echo + ACD + VI + FCS (37)

Academy Pilot x2 (24)

= 100

Has anyone tested this?

Sigma + acd x 2

Howlrunner

Academy x 2

Acd is for Decloak, not defense...

One of the regulars at my FLGS said that the Phantom (and defender) are really best with just one and Hothie's article agrees, but I don't want to believe that. Could a list with two phantoms work? Or are we ever going to buy 1 unless we go forward to Epic play?

I have two and have flown Echo with Whisper a couple of times. It's a lot of fun, although as you say it's not particularly forgiving.

With that said, here's an illustration of what I think the real problem is:

"Whisper" (32)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Rebel Captive (3)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

"Echo" (30)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Recon Specialist (3)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 78

I've discussed it elsewhere, but that leaves you with 22 points, which for me is a terribly vexing hole in the Imperial lineup. There's no reason to run Howlrunner, and adding a named TIE is a huge point sink. You can add a naked Omicron, but that's not a very good fit in a list that's centered on dynamic, technical gameplay. You can add an Interceptor, but you're stuck with something like the inconsistent Alpha + Hull Upgrade or the even more inconsistent Royal Guard Pilot.

What we need is an Imperial fighter that's at home in the 21-26 range, and we don't have one right now--but as soon as it exists, I think double-Phantom builds will be much more comfortable.

TIE Avenger? Assault Gunboat?

The Advanced is exactly in that range, but the TIE advanced is so underperforming it isn't even considering!

I did come up with and run an experimental list not too long ago:

2x Shadow Squadron Pilots // Intelligence agent / Advanced Cloaking device

2x Alpha Squadron pilots

I forgot what I was flying against... I think Fel with Push the limit, a doom shuttle, and Krassis with an HLC? Poor dice more than anything (as usual) accounted for my losses. At least one phantom died turn 2 at range 3 under cloak from only dodging one hit from each attack coming its way. That's not supposed to happen normally.

It didn't feel as much of an uphill struggle as the 3x Defender list was, but it seemed to have some promise.

Whisperer + ACD + VI + FCS (39)

Echo + ACD + VI + FCS (37)

Academy Pilot x2 (24)

= 100

Has anyone tested this?

I plan on trying one of these 2 lists out as soon as I snag a third phantom:

Whisper + VI + ACD

Sigma + SPA + Advanced sensors x 2

is 97 points giving you 3 points to play with probably rebel captive on whisper

or

Echo + VI + ACD + Recon specialist

Sigma + SPA + Advanced sensors x 2

is 98 points for either 2 intelligence agents on the sigmas or a FCS on echo.

I have run both whisper and echo in the same list with vessery were running 120 points though. It was definitely fun though

Don't recall the exact list but I am into slight variations of the following:

Howlrunner + Swarm Tactics

Mauler Mithel + Swarm Tactics

Sigma + Recon + Stygium

Sigma + Recon + Stygium

If I win initiative then I am in danger of Assault Missiles at Pilot 9. 4 dice x 2, even at range 3, with a focus and Howlrunner re-roll can take out a loaded A-Wing or seriously damage a B-Wing with another Focus and maybe an Evade leftover. Getting into range 2 or 1 in a joust situation has the potential to be devastating. Focus all 12 dice (assuming you survive Han SF) on the YT and it is a very bad day for Solo or Calrissian(sp?). You can even split into two groups with Mauler taking a Sigma and Howl taking the other, the Howlrunner purists will howl but it can work.