This thread is about the Dark Side. Specifically, those poor, lost souls who discovered a connection to the force, that they were luminous beings instead of crude matter, and then abused the hell out of their gifts for personal gain and profit.

It's a thread about Fallen Jedi who, after the Purge, went into hiding and have become jaded shadows of their former selves, either because they have forgotten what it meant to be Jedi or after witnessing the brutal assault by the Sith have been intrigued by the raw power behind it.

And it's a thread about those Imperial soldiers and officers who just have a sixth sense that they can't explain and haven't pursued or developed, either out of ignorance or fear.

The dark side can be a much more interesting villain than a black-suited badass with a red laser sword and lightning powers. It can be the dark reflection of your hopeful farmboy. It can be your base instincts given power and will.

I've got an idea rolling around in my head for a Force sensitive crime boss. Once I have some more details figured out, I'll probably post her here. But until then, I wanna hear about your encounters with the dark side that went beyond the Darth Mauls and Talons and Vaders and Starkillers.

I've stuck with the traditional sort of evil doer Inquisitor persona in game for my dark side opponents. From a story perspective I like the development of Asajj Ventress in TCW. She was by far the most interesting of the dark siders.

What about the darksider that doesn't know it? There's plenty of Force talents that don't require the character to be aware they are tapping the force. Likewise plenty of actual force powers don't require cognizance to use them. Someone using the left side of Enhance might just appear ridiculously good at something. Even powers like "Foresee" could be used as long as it's depicted less as hallucinatory visions and more along the lines of hunches, or someone who just is really good at coming prepared.

How about someone completely bughouse nuts? A space serial killer or something.

How about someone completely bughouse nuts? A space serial killer or something.

He's not a serial killer, but I pictured Batman when you said this.

Honestly, Sith aren't generally known for being emotionally compelling. Anakin/Vader was the most human and relatable of the Sith and even that requires a heaping a salt. Ventress got some justification in the TCW, but it was fairly shallow for the most part.

I've always wondered about the Jedi who becomes apathetic. Why work your ass off to save the Republic from themselves? One of the great truths that people struggle to understand is that you can't protect people from themselves. The Republic became corrupt because the people let it. They picked politicians that did it. They surrendered their power to the Emperor and his goons. They voted for people who could only promise paradise, when the truth is that you have to create your own.

All the Dark Force power in the universe can't stop untold billions from saying, "Hell no. Piss off!"

When the people didn't stand up for themselves they surrendered any right they had to their freedom. They made their bed, now let them lie in it.

It's a short step from losing faith in your principles and your people to moral apathy. If the people deserve their fate, then taking what you want isn't that bad. The Emperor knew that people where stupid sods, so what does it matter what you do to people who are little better than bacteria in their wisdom? Sheep are guided by the shepherd, so what if you enslave a few morons who only want to be led anyway?

Historically, the greatest villains where those who felt themselves to be the biggest victims. After Order 66 the Jedi were the victims. Is it hard to understand why the survivors might turn their backs on their fellows entirely?

You could create a great villain who could be redeemed by PC action if their faith were restored, or who the PCs sympathize with even as they know they must end him before more people are hurt.

Specifically in my Edge game...

In games past that I have run or played in, I tend to play a Zabrak Jedi (don't judge me!) NPC or PC--depending on if I was the GM or Player. Almost always, the game was set in the Dark Times, pre-Ep IV, and she was always the Jedi in hiding. Since I played this character often, my players were all familiar with her.

One of my other players also tends to play the same character a lot. A clone who had different ideas on what loyalty to the republic meant once Order 66 came down the pipe. So in those old games Kam the clone would always act as the bodyguard to my young Jedi, seeing her still as a General despite the war being over.

Well in this game, I decided to put a spin on it. I never mentioned her at all until one adventure when the PCs were boarded by an ISD. They were all thrown into an interrogation room. Eventually an imperial inquisitor showed up in black robes and a mostly faceless mask. She force choked some officers (not to death) just to remind them of her position of authority and also to scare the PCs, then she pulled the Kam aside when she recognized him. Once they were alone she revealed herself. That's when I gave Kam a flashback of a teenaged Zabrak Padawan in his cross hairs during Order 66. Eventually they were let go on the grounds that they do some dirty work for the empire and I did not mention her again for months and eventually they forgot about her.

Until the group was on Kamino delivering a shipment of armaments to an underground (underwater) resistance of Kaminoan-loyal clones. There they met 3 other force sensitive warriors calling themselves Jedi. Eventually the empire showed up (using a tracking device they planted on a PC's ship). Because they knew of the self-proclaimed Jedi, they sent a now-familiar inquisitor along with them.

The PCs watched the Inquisitor kill one of the Jedi in one round due to a lucky roll while her Stormtrooper contingent was closing in on them. But before they escaped, the inquisitor saw one of the PCs use the force and show an aptitude with the Dark Side. Since that encounter the FS:Em PC has taken the foresee power. I have used it twice to good effect. The PC now knows she is after him specifically. But beyond that, I have also dropped hints that she isn't completely consumed darkness and that there is conflict in her actions.

If I can pull it off, I eventually want the PC to redeem the inquisitor by pulling her from the dark and allowing her to become his master and teach him to be a Jedi.

Aservan, that's a pretty great point. It's like what I was trying to get across, but way better sounding!

That being said, I'm fine with my Sith being mustache-twirlingly evil. There's plenty of room in Star Wars for Black, White, and Gray to exist simultaneously.

There's that great scene in Avengers where Loki is cowing the crowd in Germany, but one old man stands up and says, "There are always men like you."

That was great writing. Bad writers stereo-type people and have them all act the same because it's less work for the writer. People aren't like that.

Don't fall into that trap as a GM. A disease won't kill 100% of a population and people won't all act in concert. It is our greatest strength.

Some Sith will be complete black hats who serve little purpose other than the catharsis of violently killing them. The best will have complex motives, that "from a certain point of view" make sense. It doesn't make them less evil, but it does allow us to understand why they see the universe the way they do.

There are many caveats to all this.

1. Don't let the PCs meet a big bad villain face to face unless you are willing to risk someone dying. Bad fiction rail roads the characters to ramp up the drama, when the obvious solution is for Han to just shoot first. This is why the telephone was invented. The PCs and Antagonists can talk, but can't hurt each other.
2. Don't make the story about your big bad evil guy. This works well in media other than RPGs. Players want the story to be about them, not your stupid NPC.
3. Don't make your villain too powerful. Stupid powerful bad guys only entertain children and morons. Evil has more limits than good. For one thing smart people don't want to work with you. Antagonists should have just enough power to be a threat, not so powerful that they can give the PCs a golden shower with no consequences. At that point your villain just looks dumb. Why didn't he just kill them?
4. Compelling villains have limits. The apathetic Jedi might not harm children, for example. Kids don't get to make decisions and aren't guilty of their parent's mistakes. Power hungry antagonists will probably accept surrender, as the PCs are now in his power, which is what he was fighting for in the first place. Greedy monsters will not risk their own lives, as you can't spend it if you're dead.

Specifically in my Edge game...

In games past that I have run or played in, I tend to play a Zabrak Jedi (don't judge me!) NPC or PC--depending on if I was the GM or Player. Almost always, the game was set in the Dark Times, pre-Ep IV, and she was always the Jedi in hiding. Since I played this character often, my players were all familiar with her.

One of my other players also tends to play the same character a lot. A clone who had different ideas on what loyalty to the republic meant once Order 66 came down the pipe. So in those old games Kam the clone would always act as the bodyguard to my young Jedi, seeing her still as a General despite the war being over.

Well in this game, I decided to put a spin on it. I never mentioned her at all until one adventure when the PCs were boarded by an ISD. They were all thrown into an interrogation room. Eventually an imperial inquisitor showed up in black robes and a mostly faceless mask. She force choked some officers (not to death) just to remind them of her position of authority and also to scare the PCs, then she pulled the Kam aside when she recognized him. Once they were alone she revealed herself. That's when I gave Kam a flashback of a teenaged Zabrak Padawan in his cross hairs during Order 66. Eventually they were let go on the grounds that they do some dirty work for the empire and I did not mention her again for months and eventually they forgot about her.

Until the group was on Kamino delivering a shipment of armaments to an underground (underwater) resistance of Kaminoan-loyal clones. There they met 3 other force sensitive warriors calling themselves Jedi. Eventually the empire showed up (using a tracking device they planted on a PC's ship). Because they knew of the self-proclaimed Jedi, they sent a now-familiar inquisitor along with them.

The PCs watched the Inquisitor kill one of the Jedi in one round due to a lucky roll while her Stormtrooper contingent was closing in on them. But before they escaped, the inquisitor saw one of the PCs use the force and show an aptitude with the Dark Side. Since that encounter the FS:Em PC has taken the foresee power. I have used it twice to good effect. The PC now knows she is after him specifically. But beyond that, I have also dropped hints that she isn't completely consumed darkness and that there is conflict in her actions.

If I can pull it off, I eventually want the PC to redeem the inquisitor by pulling her from the dark and allowing her to become his master and teach him to be a Jedi.

Brilliant stuff.... I love this kind of thing! I had a player in one of my games (the last of his race) who walked a fine line between the light & dark side & eventually fell to it's temptations! To cut a long story short he was redeemed when he sacrificed his life to save the rest of the party when fighting the Ancient Evil that was responsible for the death of his people! My group still talk about that session & I have to admit it was o be of the best climaxes to a campaign that I've ever run! Good times

Since already 2 of my players bugged me about access to Force powers i intend to give them a demonstration why you do not want to be one around 19 BBY.

I will introduce them to a shadowy guy who hires them to transport him and his goods around to a few planets to collect certain things and talk to certain people.

Think http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collateral_%28film%29

Well, of course digestive endproduct will land in the rotating climate control unit and their lightsaber wielding, Imps force-chocking, no regards for life showing passenger will get them of course the attention of certain imperial specialists.

Should Drama require it i'll even use the Exactor and her commander (hint: he wears black and a cape).

And while one of them might enjoy what he sees the demonstration of how HARD the Empire comes after them to put him down should cool off any desire to get such powers themselves.

In my own campaign I have a force sensitive torturer/mad scientist that works for the Black Sun. He is based on Dr. Kauffman from the Bond movie Tomorrow Never Dies who studied and taught the art of chakra torture when he wasn't busy traveling the world and assassinating folks.

That's pretty novel. I can't decide if I like scaring my players as much as just making them uncomfortable, which is what a sadistic torturer would probably do to them. Mostly 'cause I've found it easier to do the latter than the former since I don't do a lot of horror or "dis-empowerment" stuff.

The crime boss that I've been working on has slowly been mutating into a force sensitive version of Mama from the recent Judge Dredd movie (with Karl Urban). I may run with that, but inject her with some more class (and diversify her profile to include more than just spice smuggling).

In my own campaign I have a force sensitive torturer/mad scientist that works for the Black Sun. He is based on Dr. Kauffman from the Bond movie Tomorrow Never Dies who studied and taught the art of chakra torture when he wasn't busy traveling the world and assassinating folks.

That's pretty novel. I can't decide if I like scaring my players as much as just making them uncomfortable, which is what a sadistic torturer would probably do to them. Mostly 'cause I've found it easier to do the latter than the former since I don't do a lot of horror or "dis-empowerment" stuff.

The crime boss that I've been working on has slowly been mutating into a force sensitive version of Mama from the recent Judge Dredd movie (with Karl Urban). I may run with that, but inject her with some more class (and diversify her profile to include more than just spice smuggling).

O-Ren Ishii a.k.a. Cottonmouth, played by Lucy Liu, from Kill Bill is kind of this type of character and would fit very well into a Star Wars game as a crime boss.

O-Ren Ishii a.k.a. Cottonmouth, played by Lucy Liu, from Kill Bill is kind of this type of character and would fit very well into a Star Wars game as a crime boss.

You make a compelling point and make me want to go watch Kill Bill again. For research, of course.

And now I'm wondering what Star Wars: Episode VII would like like if directed by Tarantino. Probably a lot of dinner conversations about Holonet pictures.

It might make the force too common but I think it would be interesting to show 2 sides to the using the force for self interest profit. I can see a scale of difference between a force augmented con man who cheats on dice games or is a burglar who is on the light side and force spice cartel murderer like mama who is dark side.

Maybe its just me but personal gain and profit aren't inherently dark side its the methods to get there that make something dark side or light. Dark side is more about rage and hate, personal gain is more of a neutral emotion which can spawn rage hate or more fun loving con man.

O-Ren Ishii a.k.a. Cottonmouth, played by Lucy Liu, from Kill Bill is kind of this type of character and would fit very well into a Star Wars game as a crime boss.

You make a compelling point and make me want to go watch Kill Bill again. For research, of course.

And now I'm wondering what Star Wars: Episode VII would like like if directed by Tarantino. Probably a lot of dinner conversations about Holonet pictures.

You're apparently not the first to think about this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1m51I95PSI

--snip--

Ugggggh I wish I wasn't at work so that I could watch that!

O-Ren Ishii a.k.a. Cottonmouth, played by Lucy Liu, from Kill Bill is kind of this type of character and would fit very well into a Star Wars game as a crime boss.

You make a compelling point and make me want to go watch Kill Bill again. For research, of course.

And now I'm wondering what Star Wars: Episode VII would like like if directed by Tarantino. Probably a lot of dinner conversations about Holonet pictures.

You're apparently not the first to think about this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1m51I95PSI

That is the single greatest thing my little eyes have ever witnessed.