I have a question about it...

Dark Denizens says:

For 2 rounds following this turn, whenever a character is instructed to draw adventure cards, he must draw dungeon cards instead. etc

The question is:

When start the first round.?

Does it get started at the same time when you draw the card?( after that.. play goes to the opponent and then back again and that is the last turn for that card?I could not call that 2 rounds..

Or begins the first round with the other opponent but the text on the card activates also on the turn when you draw the card.

I have the same problems with the prophecy card..

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Velhart said:

If you read the Prophe(s)cy card, it has written "for 2 Rounds including this Turn". This new Dark Denizens has written "for 2 Rounds following this Turn". So this is the answer you need.

You might have some problems interpreting the Blizzard card, which has no specific instructions. I always played it like Dark Denizens and each Character has to move 1 space for two consecutive Turns. On the contrary, the Character that draws Prophesy draws an additional Card for just one Turn, while the other do it for two Turns.

The_Warlock said:

i need some more explaining because i don't understand it.

I still wonder if we play the prophesy card right.

2 rounds is for me that each player has get 2 turns( this activates mostly after the turn of the player who draws the card. ( like a blizzard...)

( we play with prophecy that the card directly activates in the turn from the player who draws the card( so if someone draws prophecy, he draw a extra right.( do we play this right???

It are still 2 rounds, so the other player begins his turn and then end, and then the player who draws prophecy before begins his turn.

The question is: Does prophecy end on the end of that player's turn or is the other player after that, because it are 2 rounds?

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With Dark Denizens, i think the same now as the prophecy. It says 2 rounds, but actually it's 1 round ( but the drawing player can benefit from that card 2 times?

I would play, after You drawn a Prophecy card, it takes effect at the end of Your turn. Then until the end of Your second turn is discarded. Every user will have two turns of additional card. All animals are equal...

Nemomon said:

The prophecy says something about ( for 2 rounds including this turn. ( does this mean that a character can draw still a extra card in the turn that he draws the prophecy???. actually he may not draw cards anymore in that turn. ( we see this as the first round and at the end of his second turn, the card is discarded. This means (in our games that the person who draws the prophecy can use that card 2 times and the other player only one.

I don't know if this is the meaning of that card.

With Dark denizens i have the same problem.

How can the text on the card be activated on the same turn that you have draw that card?

If i read the text, the first round begins with the other player, after the turn from the player who drew Dark Denizens.

The way of the prophecy card we play goes this:

1: player 1 draws prophecy because of a draw 1 space. He draws one more card because prophecy activates on the same turn as you have draw them....

2: player 2 start his turn. he gets a +1 drawing from prophecy

3 Player 1 is again. he can draw another extra card because of prophecy.

end of prophecy card

Is this the meaning of the prophecy?

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And does Dark denizens the same as prophecy or must i treat it the same as the blizzard? ( Next turn after blizzard has been drew, the first round will start..

I am still waiting for an answer.

Velhart said:

no IMO, i think each character must draw +1 card two times, it is 2 turn long for all , no only for who had draw it.Blizzard for example is 2 turns long so we play it in this way:

player1 draw blizzard, it get effect starting in following turn so player 2 move one space only, then so do the player 1 (and this end the first turn of blizzard); then player 2 again move one space and then the player 1 move one space (this end the blizzard). in this way the blizzard was 2 turn long for all players, all had moved slow 2time.

prophecy is a bit different just because it start in same turn so i think it work so:

1. player 1 draws prophesy because of a draw 1 space. He draws one more card because prophecy activates on same turn as you have draw them (no sure about last part but i dont have the card so i dont know)

2. player 2 start his turn. he get a +1 drawing from prophecy

3. player 1 is again. he can draw another extra card because of prophecy

4. player 2 start his turn. he get a +1 drawing from prophecy.

end of prophecy card (each player got it for 2 turns).

this is IMO the way to play it

Andraax said:

About prophecy.

This means that the player who drew prophecy can benefit from the card 3 times(including the turn when that player drew prophecy)

no no, look my example about prophecy, it end when turn of player1 start, he "use" profecy only for 2 turns.(2 examples because profecy and blizzard start in different turns).

Im thinking about prophecy based on older cards because i dont have dungeon, i hope no special rules about it

Andraax said:

I think i understand.

It are still 2 rounds, but the round begins in the turn that the player draws prophecy.

Normaly the first round begins with the next player ( if someone draws blizzard for example)

And Dark Denizens works the same as blizzard?

Otherwise it would be weird. the character who draws Dark Denizens has already drew some cards, so he can't draw dungeon cards anymore in that turn.

If Dark Denizens say "for 2 rounds following this turn" then yes, it work like blizzard, i dont have dungeon so i can just share my opinion but you need check what card say exactly because i dont know (I want dungeon )

Scenario: Dark Denizens is active (draw Dungeon card instead of Adventure card), a character has a Fiend Slayer follower (must draw one more Adventure card than required), he encounters a 1xAdventure card space (in the outher region for example)

Question: does the effect stacks and he draws 2 Dungeon cards?

EDIT: i'm self responding! according to this "... Fiend Slayer ... do affect characters in the Dungeon" so i suppose you have to draw 2 dungeon

PS.. anyone said FAQ? actually we need a Codelaw

costolaz said:

It would be the same as normal.

draw 1 space on outer region + dark denizens +fiend slayer means: draw 2 dungeon cards if no other cards are laying there.

You can use fiend slayer in the dungeon.

I was wondering about this:

If you draw 2 Dark Denizens at the same time..

The question is: Do they stack so it become 4 rounds?

Because Prophecy and Fiendslayer cannot stack, i was thinking right away about Dark Denizens..

Dark denizens+Dark Denizens =same text..

It's a quite rare situation but it can occur. In this case I would say that the Events take place simultaneously and each one lasts for two rounds. Both cards are active and they don't stack because they're drawn together and start in the same Turn.

I still forget the rule that cards with the same text don't stack. I think the reason is I don't like this rule as a general principle. Since I like things that are clear and create no contradictions, I refused to apply the rule as it is in my games. I don't see the reason not to stack effects from different sources. Prophesy has nothing to do with Fiend Slayer, and Fiend Slayer has nothing to do with Swashbuckler ability on Fields spaces. I'm sure that if you can't stack Fiend Slayer and Prophesy you can't stack Swashbuckler ability and Fiend Slayer on the Fields. Please don't say that the text of the Swashbuckler card is a little different or everybody will start looking for commas, printing errors or slight differences that allow the Prophetess to use the Orb of Knowledge.

The problem is that this general rule cannot be applied consistently. If I cannot stack Prophetess and Orb I cannot stack Ring and Unicorn. I cannot stack Maiden and Solomon's Crown. Warrior can use two Swords because his Special Ability allows him to break the limit of one Weapon in battle, but cannot stack the bonuses. I know these examples are absurd but if you say "cards with the same text don't stack their effects" then you open the door to lots of questions.

A distinction is needed. Effects that are clearly "add ons" can always cumulate. Object/Follower/Spell bonuses to stats or combat rolls can stack, nobody has any doubt; each addition to card drawing can stack (is always 1 card more than required... but what's required? Each bonus sets the new "required" number of cards to draw!); Psionic Blast/Warhorse/Inner Belief can stack (why not, by all means? It says "add your Craft Value"... it's a number, I can add it one, two or three times if everything's right).

But look:

Prophetess/Orb of Knowledge/Alteration cannot stack, at least not very often, because they say "you may discard one card you do not wish to encounter and draw one more card to replace it, which you must encounter". On a Draw 1 card space you cannot draw, discard, draw and discard again... because the first effect said "you MUST encounter". If you draw 2 or more cards on Ruins/Oasis/Hidden Valley/Dungeon Spaces you may choose to discard up to two cards and draw replacements that you must encounter. It's fair in my opinion, no reason to forbid such a practice to a Prophetess with the Orb of Knowledge.

Wand/Spell auto-drawing ability is even clearer: "You may have at least 1 Spell if your Craft allows, gain a Spell each time you cast your last Spell". How can you stack an effect with such wording? I cannot see how it can be turned into "you shall have at least two Spells". You gain a Spell when you cast your last Spell, case closed.

I don't know how do you feel about it but this rule is very confuse for me. It has been devised to avoid problems and simplify things, but I don't like the contradictions and the wonderful gaming chances wasted by its application. Swashbuckler with Fiend Slayer on the Fields and Prophesy in play should draw 4 cards... 2 it's too lame, it's like ignoring the effects of 2 cards that are in play. But the Swashbuckler can still be defeated and lose the FS... looks like he doesn't need it, like the Monk doesn't need the Warhorse. I'd rather see every card to have a part in the game, this rule tends to cancel too many effects.

The_Warlock said:

I hate to say it, but Talismansilat has already said that Fiendslayer and Prophesy don't stack because they have the same text..

Swashbuckler has a other text attach to it. It's not the same text as Fiendslayer or Prophesy, so in my eyes, you can stack them together..

This question must also be included in the faq i think..

About the Dark Denizens..( i think i will play at this moment with the rule that you cannot stack them. Luckily it is very rare that this will occur.

Hopefully, Talismansilat will say the answer soon..( or not... ( i have not seen him on the forums for a long time..)

Velhart said:

Swashbuckler + FS/Prophesy seems legit, ability is may, the other two are must. But Swashbuckler + Orb of Prophesy have the same wording, so he couldn't spam Fields for 3 cards.

There is also the thing about weapons/objects in battle/psychic combat, which have very much the same wordings, but do stack AFAIK. Like Sword of Light + Psychic Crystal (or whatever the actual name is), both add 1 to your Craft in psychic combat.

I would say they dont stack, but you could play it either way. The chances of that are pretty slim anyway!

Msrushing said:

Swashbuckler + FS/Prophesy or Sword of Light + Psychic Crystal ? Could be Gauntlets of Might and Sword of Light/Skull Wand (add 2 to Str in battle).

Dam said:

I beg your pardon, but you're starting the same wording mumbo jumbo again. I mean no offense, that is clear, but I asked you please not to tell me that 2 effects/abilities, that result in drawing one more card than required on a Draw Card space, are different because in one text there's "you must" and in the other "you may".Or I will start saying that Prophesy has words that are not included on Fiend Slayer card (timing instructions) and that FS has different discarding conditions. Or I might say that Prophesy addresses all Characters and FS only his possessor. Or that FS has "one or more cards" and Prophesy "1 or more cards". So they don't have the same text.

Moreover, Orb of Prophesy and Swashbuckler are quite different in my opinion, wording or not, I think they can stack with no problem even under this golden rule.

I don't see the need of such a rigid, though very unclear statement (object bonuses remain a paradox for me). This is the point I'm trying to make. Not that I want the Wand to grant at least 2 Spells to Wizard/Prophetess, but I don't like the idea that the same effect coming from different sources is like nothing. This is particularly true for Spells, which are "temporary" bonuses that should never be ineffective if legally cast. Prophesy is also limited to two rounds and drawing a lot of cards is always risky, so what's the reason not to stack it with FS or Swashbuckler ability?

The rule has to serve a purpose. We don't have purpose to serve the rule. I can house rule it as I like, but then I can't compare my gaming experiences with other players on the forum. I wish we could have a rule that is clear and improves the game, instead of requiring careful speculation and denying interesting scenarios. But if everybody is happy with it and doesn't think that it's confusing and limiting, then I won't raise this topic again. Just forgive me if sometimes I draw one more card than allowed...

If you want to go by the effect, as in two effects that do the same can't duplicate, then Swashbuckler + FS/Prophesy at Fields would be no-no. Ditto for Orb of Prophesy + Fields and FS + Prophesy. No extra card drawing can duplicate if you go by effect. Prophetess and Orb of Knowledge do the exact same, so no-no. Monk vs Warhorse vs Psionic Blast, non-duplicatable. Objects/Followers are weird because they've never been considered no-no even when duplicating each other, but can be no-no when duplicating something else (Monk vs Warhorse). I've never considered the Wand + Wizard/Prophetess to benefit, each let's you have always 1 Spell, so as long as you have 1 Spell, both are happy. It would be different if the Spell from the Wand was in the Wand and not with the character (like Genie or Spell Ring).

Generally, more cards you draw, the better you will do. Early on, it's more risky, but mid-game on, drawing more increases your chances to boost up. Even with just 5 games with the Dungeon, I've seen crazy fast boosting in there, mainly due to landing on tons of "draw 2 cards" or "draw 3 cards" spaces. Granted, the monster-ratio in the Dungeon deck is higher than the base + Reaper + Dungeon Adventure deck (just a gut feeling, haven't done any math to verify this), but still. Today the Elf hit the Dungeon with Str and Craft at 4 (had Holy Lance as Weapon) and even that +1 Str took it's sweet time in the Outer Region. When the Elf came out, he came out at the Crown, having gotten an attack score of 25 while the LoD managed a 15. Getting Hunchback allowed him even more easier access to the multiple draw spaces and he used (or abused, depending on your POV) them to great effect.

cards, spells etc etc canot stack. if every one has to move only one space for two rounds, it means that the player next to you only move one space and when it is your turn again you move one space, and then another round around the table, and you being the last one moving one space.... end. this means all players has moved 2 times only one space , pretty clear to me.

Even if stacking has been allowed now, 2x Dark denizens will not stack

ah, it's so rare that you draw both cards at the same time..

I hope that more of such wonderful cards will come in the future !