World Champion from 2012 discusses the new Empire ships in Wave 4:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4808

in short, TIE swarm is still strong and recommended

in short, TIE swarm is still strong and recommended

Until you have Blount and 2 Z-95s with Assault Missiles come ruin your day...

I do think it's interesting that he put each ship in a as a swarmlet escort, but then again he won the World with a TIE swarm. I feel like there are other options, too, especially with the Phantom, but we will see.

Sad on no Tactician reveal...

I do think it's interesting that he put each ship in a as a swarmlet escort, but then again he won the World with a TIE swarm. I feel like there are other options, too, especially with the Phantom, but we will see.

He did say that he saw other builds than the swarms ones, he just didn't share what they were.

Hmm, replacing the usual Firespray that accompanies the mini-swarm is interesting. Personally, I would go this route:

30 Echo
4 Advanced Cloacking Device
1 Intelligence Agent
1 Veteran Instincts

18 Howlrunner
2 Swarm Tactics

14 Black Squadron Pilot
2 Swarm Tactics

14 Black Squadron Pilot
2 Swarm Tactics

12 Academy Pilot

---

The application seems pretty obvious, and all five ships shoot at PS8.

I do think it's interesting that he put each ship in a as a swarmlet escort, but then again he won the World with a TIE swarm. I feel like there are other options, too, especially with the Phantom, but we will see.

What other options do you recommend? The trouble with both of these ships is they cost a lot for not a lot of hp, so you're limited in what you can bring with them to help out with some firepower. Trust me, I would love to fly the ships with non-mini-swarms, and it may shape out that way. But the less ships you bring, the less ability you have to deal with 4B or 2X2B, or even with wave 4, Z swarms. So there is a balance there to tricking out your wave 4 ships, and what you have left to compliment them.

I do think it's interesting that he put each ship in a as a swarmlet escort, but then again he won the World with a TIE swarm. I feel like there are other options, too, especially with the Phantom, but we will see.

What other options do you recommend? The trouble with both of these ships is they cost a lot for not a lot of hp, so you're limited in what you can bring with them to help out with some firepower. Trust me, I would love to fly the ships with non-mini-swarms, and it may shape out that way. But the less ships you bring, the less ability you have to deal with 4B or 2X2B, or even with wave 4, Z swarms. So there is a balance there to tricking out your wave 4 ships, and what you have left to compliment them.

I conceived this squad as a poor translation of a 4 ship Rebel list:

25 Sigma Squadron Pilot x2

21 Tempest Squadron Pilot x2

4 Engine Upgrade

One option I am hoping to look at is with the unspoiled Defender generic pilot. If it is going for 33 pts at PS3, I am interested in trying it as a 3 ship build instead of 3 Firesprays.

Hothie's point on cost is extremely valid though. If what you fly with it isn't offering at least equal threat, recovering from losing your new super ship will be nigh on impossible.

I still maintain that 4 defense dice on the Phantom is going to let you down A LOT....

The one thing I'll say to the "not a lot of health" thing... is the the Defender is sitting at 3/3/3/3, which gives it an effective health of 17, vs. a Firespray's effective health of 19.7 and a YT-1300's of 18. And with a 6 health pool, dice variability isn't as deadly as it is against an interceptor who can be 1 shot from 1 bad, unlucky roll.

So, if one starts thinking of a Defender more as an alternative to the Firespray and less of a shielded interceptor, I think the point cost will be easier to swallow.

As for the Phantom, I personally feel like you'll really have to fly the ship well in order to get its points back from it... but at 27 points, it only costs 6 more than an X wing, and has 1 hull less... But god the maneuverability! (Oh yeah, and that cloak thing... and that extra attack die). If you can fly it properly, and stick more to the named pilots at PS6-9 (with VI) I think it'll be one of the deadliest ships out there.

I still maintain that 4 defense dice on the Phantom is going to let you down A LOT....

Maybe that's why you go super aggressive with it and never cloak it =P

As for the Phantom, I personally feel like you'll really have to fly the ship well in order to get its points back from it... but at 27 points, it only costs 6 more than an X wing, and has 1 hull less... But god the maneuverability! (Oh yeah, and that cloak thing... and that extra attack die). If you can fly it properly, and stick more to the named pilots at PS6-9 (with VI) I think it'll be one of the deadliest ships out there.

The cheapest Phantom costs 25, just 4 more than an X-Wing.

That was a great article. Mini-swarms look fun to fly: you get the ease yet challenge of formation flying, plus the risky heart-stopping joy flying a beefed-up Interceptor or Phantom.

I still maintain that 4 defense dice on the Phantom is going to let you down A LOT....

Certainly more often than we'd prefer.

It's going to take some actual playtime to get our minds wrapped around the Phantom properly. I think a lot of us want to see it as a 4/4/2/2 ship capable of firing every turn, but the amount of points you have to invest to get there is simply too prohibitive. I like to think of it as a ship that will always be 4/2/2/2, with a unique action that can either be used for extreme mobility, or as a different version of evade for when your opponent is out of arc and you're afraid of being lit up (which is generally the only time that I'd take an evade token over a focus). Neither is a guarantee of safety, but for only 25 points and four red dice it might be worth the gamble. If you perceive it in that light, does a 25 point generic version seem more viable?

I think mini-swarm is the way to go in wave 4 empire. Both of the new ships are quite fragile compared to their point costs. You need a lot of bodies that are less vulnerable. In the case of the defender, you're also building around its mediocre firepower (again, compared to its point cost).

Also, having a bunch of ships clogging up the map makes it harder for your opponent to get clean shots on the expensive ships. You don't want the enemy to be able to concentrate fire.

if not going mini swarm?

How about 2 PTL TIEints, or a firespray + named TIE, or double bombers, or mook TIEints, or shuttle + TIE escorts, or maybe another TIE phantom or defender, or anything else really

I still maintain that 4 defense dice on the Phantom is going to let you down A LOT....

In what regard?

Rolling at least two more than an X-Wing, with the possibility of 4 more than an X-Wing?

Hitting a ship with 6 green dice sounds like a statistical impossibility. Based on my luck with the dice anyways

if not going mini swarm?

How about 2 PTL TIEints, or a firespray + named TIE, or double bombers, or mook TIEints, or shuttle + TIE escorts, or maybe another TIE phantom or defender, or anything else really

How dare you suggest anything besides a swarm!

The defender is, IMHO, as good as a Firespray, keeping it able to shoot at something should be fairly easy. It is also harder to hit (both defense wise, but because it's also a small base.)

The other big advantage is you can still K-Turn whilst stressed and that may get you out of a lot of trouble. The ability to flip whilst stressed and then straight move next turn to remove stress may prove very advantageous.

Over time, I actually think we will see more Defenders in lists than Phantoms, but time will tell.

I was thinking something like this:

Echo

+Recon Specialist

+Veteran Instincts

Bounty Hunter

x2

Or

Whisper

+Recon Specialist

+Veteran Instincts

+Advanced Cloaking Device

Soontir Fel

+Push the Limit

Carnor Jax

+Push the Limit

The defender is, IMHO, as good as a Firespray, keeping it able to shoot at something should be fairly easy. It is also harder to hit (both defense wise, but because it's also a small base.)

The other big advantage is you can still K-Turn whilst stressed and that may get you out of a lot of trouble. The ability to flip whilst stressed and then straight move next turn to remove stress may prove very advantageous.

Over time, I actually think we will see more Defenders in lists than Phantoms, but time will tell.

I agree. I feel the Defender is going to be a lot more versatile in its role than the Phantom.

The defender is, IMHO, as good as a Firespray, keeping it able to shoot at something should be fairly easy. It is also harder to hit (both defense wise, but because it's also a small base.)

The other big advantage is you can still K-Turn whilst stressed and that may get you out of a lot of trouble. The ability to flip whilst stressed and then straight move next turn to remove stress may prove very advantageous.

Over time, I actually think we will see more Defenders in lists than Phantoms, but time will tell.

I agree. I feel the Defender is going to be a lot more versatile in its role than the Phantom.

I can't wait to play Rexler Brath with PtL competitively. After some tests, it is not nearly as hard to clear the stress as it seems in most situations. Occasionally I got caught without a shot after performing a green, but in most of those situations, they couldn't shoot back anyway. Followed up by that white K-turn, he is right back into the fray and with a target lock and a focus he is quite punishing, especially to Falcons.

The clear counter to a phantom is Han or some other named falcon, or Roark with ion cannon. Be sure when you make lists that have a total of 10 hp, like ptl interceptors, that you can deal with Han with marksmanship.

The clear counter to a phantom is Han or some other named falcon, or Roark with ion cannon. Be sure when you make lists that have a total of 10 hp, like ptl interceptors, that you can deal with Han with marksmanship.

Yup... I figure Roark will make a bigger scene to combat the advanced cloaking device... Kill the thing before it can shoot and cloak seems like a good strategy to me. And a turret to boot... Just some icing on the cake. Though getting it in arc will still be difficult, but at least if you get 1 ship in arc, you know you can shoot it first.

I feel that sometimes people focus on the all or nothing with Attack vs Evade, but if Han gets 3 hits vs your 4 evades it is almost certain one is going through, then the next ship will fire and a similar result is highly probable.

The idea that you can keep a Phantom out of firing arcs is a bit hopeful as I will certainly be looking to triangulate fire arcs so you are in mine from 2 or more ships.

This is where the other ships in the Phantom list must project threat, as killing the Phantom has to leave the ships doing the killing open to serious threat from the Phantom's support ships.

I would also say the Phantom is highly susceptible to stress causing effects. Right now Dutch with an Ion Cannon and R3-A2 or Hobbie with R3-A2 is going to give Phantoms the absolute nightmares.

Your support ships have got to threaten those ships or your 40+ point Phantom is a floating liability.