There are several well-known trade routes and hundreds of thousands of smaller, minor ones. Now how does one travel say, from Fondor to Manaan (seeing as the former does not seem to have any route that leads to it)?

It has a route.

The map just shows all the biggest of the biggest routes, there's dozens of smaller routes. Think of road map. The galactic map in the book shows the interstate highways and larger state highways, but not the smaller highways, local routes, and urban streets, simply because then it would be an unreadable mess.

If you want, you can adjust the Arrogation difficulty depending on how far off the grid you're going, but both those planets are probably "big" enough that you don't really need to do so.

The mapped routes are the easy way. There is the hard dangerous way of making custom jumps. That's where having a good Navigator comes into play. Just because there isn't a route there doesn't mean you can't necessarily go, it's just that it isn't a popular enough destination to have all the various anomalies routinely catalogued.

Astrogation is something I have a real love/hate relationship with. On the one hand there's times when you really need to make a roll. But most of the time it feels like less of a critical mechanic and more of a way to allow a single die roll to derail an adventure.

Astrogation is something I have a real love/hate relationship with. On the one hand there's times when you really need to make a roll. But most of the time it feels like less of a critical mechanic and more of a way to allow a single die roll to derail an adventure.

I think it's because it's pretty iconic in scenes from ANH and ESB.

But it also could have been folded into Computers, imo. Though that'd make Han an excellent slicer along with a great navigator, and that's not exactly right...

Astrogation is something I have a real love/hate relationship with. On the one hand there's times when you really need to make a roll. But most of the time it feels like less of a critical mechanic and more of a way to allow a single die roll to derail an adventure.

I'm more in the "why is this even a skill?" camp.

Not because it would derail an adventure. There just doesn't seem to be much value in it for the universe it's in. The navigation is almost exclusively done with computers or astromechs and the drives themselves have failsafes that pull a ship out of hyperspace when they hit a gravity well. Shaving a bit of time off a route is more about the engine than the navigation. A navigator could make minor tweaks, but most ships are sticking to more or less the same routes. In the movies, these typically are screenwipe moments. I think that is how it should usually work in this game. Are there a handful of reasons to use the skill? Yes, but I just can't see it getting a lot of use outside of maybe a galactic trading campaign. I guess Astrogation just stands out to me as particularly limited compared to other skills. YMMV, but I'd be interested to hear how much use other GMs/PCs get out of it.

It's not going to be terribly useful if people just use space travel for to and from and the occasional space combat. Unless you are planning to run an Exploration based campaign where farming new hyperspace routes for sale or discovery of worlds in hereto hyper travel unreachable locations. Using it in a smuggling based game trying to avoid those Imperial entanglements. Potentially an AoR campaign where jumping in from an unexpected direction is part of being able to infiltrate an Imperial system. It definitely requires effort and intent to be of real use.

Even if there isn't a route, you can still "bushwhack" a jump without an established Hyperspace lane. It's just dangerous and difficult to plot. Even a short jump ("short" here meaning only a few lightyears) is fraught with peril, from micrometeors to undetected gravitational anomalies. Basically, ripe for adventure.

You know what really bothers me...astromech droids. Are you telling me that in a galaxy far far away where you can basically fold space you need a computer the size of a trash can to do the calculations. Why couldn't you just build it into the darn x-wing to start? I guess you would still need them to hide plans stolen by bothan spies.

You know what really bothers me...astromech droids. Are you telling me that in a galaxy far far away where you can basically fold space you need a computer the size of a trash can to do the calculations. Why couldn't you just build it into the darn x-wing to start? I guess you would still need them to hide plans stolen by bothan spies.

I'm sure you could, but an Astromech can detach itself from its socket and move around the surface of the ship and effect repairs.

Astrogation is something I have a real love/hate relationship with. On the one hand there's times when you really need to make a roll. But most of the time it feels like less of a critical mechanic and more of a way to allow a single die roll to derail an adventure.

If a single die roll is able to derail an entire adventure, then that's bad GMing at work.

By all means, a failed Astrogation roll can result in complications to the ship, or a time delay for a time-sensitive journey, but by no means should a single check ever throw the entire session into disarray, unless it's somehow in service to a larger, more epic story the GM happens to have in mind.

The astromech doesn't do the main calculations. It stores several pre-calculated routes. 2-10 by model if I remember correctly. The calculations that the astromech does is the final adjustments for the jump. The small tweaks that are needed because of the starting point.

Astrogation can also be used to learn information on the System, and the space around a location. Or more information about certain routes. But honestly, unless your are under duress, or time is of the essence astrogation rolls really shouldn't be needed

Astrogation can also be used to learn information on the System, and the space around a location. Or more information about certain routes. But honestly, unless your are under duress, or time is of the essence astrogation rolls really shouldn't be needed

And there's also the "Plot Course" action that a copilot can take to remove setback dice from the pilot's check - that uses Astrogation.

And here's another example. The adventure I'm writing for my group (and running tonight, in fact) has them visiting a system with severe gravitic anomalities and weird mass shadows. At one point they need to use their sensors to scan a planet and a debris field in space above it. Due to said anomalities they suffer 2 setback dice to their Computers check. However, with a Hard: Astrogation they can find a "quiet spot" from which to use their sensors, removing some setback dice and possibly adding boost dice, or adding more setback dice if they fail.

Astrogation may not be the most heavily used skill, but an inventive GM can easily compensate for this. And when you need it, you often REALLY need it.

The astromech doesn't do the main calculations. It stores several pre-calculated routes. 2-10 by model if I remember correctly. The calculations that the astromech does is the final adjustments for the jump. The small tweaks that are needed because of the starting point.

See now, I've always seen it like I'm in an X-wing in orbit around Coruscant. My navcomputer has a list of possible locations and I select Corellia. The computer gives me a few basic course options. Maybe one is the fastest, one has better fuel economy, whatever. Basically I'm using Google Maps in SPACE!!!

Now, I say, "Astromech, get me to Coronet City ASAP! There's a cute Twi'lek in a cantina waiting for me to come sweep her off her lekku."

My astromech (ST-0 aka Shortround) tells me, "No time for love Doctor Jones! You only have enough space fuel to take the slower route. Here's the heading you need to be on for that, I'll calculate the velocity/acceleration adjustments for you."

Here is what people forget, the astromech has only about 10 routes. So you need to have them planned out before you head into space. not to mention i really wouldn't want to spend a week or more in the seat of a snubfighter

not to mention i really wouldn't want to spend a week or more in the seat of a snubfighter

Problem Solved.

Here is what people forget, the astromech has only about 10 routes.

R2-D2 could hold the entire blueprints of the death star in his spare memory, so 10 routes seems a bit low. On page 410 it gives astromech droids Astrogation of 3 which is pretty dang good. Good enough to calculate routes to just about anywhere.

I don't think we can compare R2-D2 to the "other" astromechs can we? He is a class above I believe.

Here is what people forget, the astromech has only about 10 routes.

R2-D2 could hold the entire blueprints of the death star in his spare memory, so 10 routes seems a bit low.

1. For the majority of ships, the astromech is just a helper; not the primary provider of hyperspace data. Navcomputers have more than ten routes. The limitation of the astromech only matters to ships lacking a navcomputer (which even the T-65s have)

2. I'd wager that a 3D technical map will be a smaller file size than a hyperspace route. The amount of information required for traveling safely across the galaxy faster than the speed of light is going to be more than a couple gigabytes. Alternatively, a map is pretty small potatos. Think about how much "map" data exists in SWTOR and that game is what? 10-15GB total? The map we see in ANH is just black and white technical specs. Nothing fancy. Even being the size of a small moon, I bet it would fit on a 16GB flashdrive no problem. Might even have some space left over.

You know what really bothers me...astromech droids. Are you telling me that in a galaxy far far away where you can basically fold space you need a computer the size of a trash can to do the calculations. Why couldn't you just build it into the darn x-wing to start? I guess you would still need them to hide plans stolen by bothan spies.

Why compare Star Wars to the known universe? It isn't. It is a fantasy universe where ancient technologies are able to do things we could ever do.

@Dbuntu: The technical plans/blueprints for a 120 km diametre battle station are a bit more than a few pictures.

Astromechs serve as back-up calculators and storages for travel routes, as mobile repair stations and in R2's case as plot device.

AS for the skill itself: Every time my players do not use one of those nice thick lines (Corellian Run, ...) i want a test. Depending on where they are going they get a difficulty and maybe setback dies. And then there are actions like others have mentioned, trying to get a certain angle/course, ...

Overall it's rolled at least twice per evening.

@Dbuntu: The technical plans/blueprints for a 120 km diametre battle station are a bit more than a few pictures.

I've worked with AutoCAD. However, we are comparing the blueprints for a 120km diameter battlestation to the technical plans for a hyperspace route. The hyperspace route needs technical information for EVERYTHING in the galaxy (which is in constant motion) between you and your destination.

Comparing Star Wars tech to Google Maps, AutoCAD, and gigabytes (and expecting the setting to be cohesive or to make sense) is folly. In the words of a much wiser man than I, "ye can't git there from here."

To be fair, our past experiences inform much of what we encounter, but Star Wars is "a long time ago." The tech they have is totally different from what we might expect from a traditional "after Earth" SciFi universe. It's easiest on everyone if one just learns the terms and devices native to the setting and then extrapolate from there.