Heya felow UFS'sers

Recently i've noticed an abudnance of 4 checks being run by my local group and having looked at several peoples deck lists i'm convinced that more people are running 4 checking foundations and assets even with attacks generally increasing..

My main reasons:

- Some 4 checking foundations like Chinese boxing and Bitter rivals are Vital to their resource symbols so people chuck them in without thought.

- There are quite a few 4 checks in set 12 that, on the whole increase the power or theme of your deck. So again more careless OR precise chucking into decks.

A more recent example is my brothers Earth Ragnar deck.

Before he ran 4 8 4 checks ( Amy's assistance and battle prowess respectively.) He was under the terminology that i use that `if it rolls less than a 5 it has have a **** good or vital reason to be in the deck.`

Now, having seen cards like lives for battle and berseker rage his number of 4 checks has increased to 20 (!) Whilst the general theme and goal of the deck has gotten better and the deck can now OTK. his Control checks have been reduced somewhat and he always checks annoying 4's.

So the question I ask is what is the norm for 4 rollers and are people over indulging in them?

I'm not. 8 4 checks MAX unless needed!

Cheers

Hanzo who only uses tag along and bitter rivals as his 4 checkers.

I dont think there are more, my Fio deck has always had like 20 4 checks and I have never had a problem spamming foundations or killing fast. It all depends on what you need, if you run a lot of 1 diff foundations 4's arent really a problem, I havnt really noticed an increase in them, it all just depends what you build and the support you have available for it.

Is this where I mention that my PotM deck had over 30 4 checks in it?

Antigoth said:

Yeah I saw what you did thur.

But when you only ahve ONE split attack. It's much more justifiable. Isn' it?

Oh and being Dhalsim ¬_¬

I run so many 4's I have to stuff my deck full of 0 diffs so I can still get a decent T1 spam going.

Bloodrunstrue said:

Honestly... being able to go

Dhalsim F - Drop Billiard Player
Play a foundation
Billiard Player F - Get either a card from hand, or the checked card committed into staging area.
Play Billiard Player as a foundation again.

Just allows so much speed and versatility it's stupid.

Being able to have two Billiard Players, fish a card you need ready with the first one, committed into staging area, then add it to your hand with the second one, only to then drop it ready into your staging area with Dhalsim - good times I tell you.

My current Siegfried build doesn't have a single 4cc.

Antigoth said:

Yes i've playtestes your deck idea...

it's freaking bonkers it could be Hanzokick level with some improvements me thinks.

Also just a question since US air base says you need to roll a 6. Surely checking a 7 ( multi hobbyist then flipping and End it all say) would mean you still fail the control check?

@Tagrineth. Good man, but I hope your boarding those amy's assistance's. Also would you mind sending me the list I need to build siggy meself.

Cheers Everyone keep this thread going.

Hanzo

I think we are going to see more and more 4 checks run, because there are just SO many good ones out there at the moment.

Off the top of my head, I like to run anywhere from 12-18 4 checks in a 64-69 card deck, so anywhere around 18-25% of the deck as 4 checks isn't that uncommon for me anymore.

I think the symbol that best can get away from running over 8 4 checks reasonably is air, as it thrives off the synergy between solid 6 check foundations and spike.

off the top of my head, 4 checks that are commonly finding their way into my deck...

saikyo-ryo

healer

evil doer destroyer

charismatic

manifest destiny

bitter rivals

fight or flight

miserable existence

heirloom

no memories

etc.

There really is a long list of 4 checks out there, and it is forcing us to build with more 1s and 0s, or it forces us to make do with fewer foundations <less spam> (a few of the new characters thrive on this).

Mind you, all of these foundations/assets with 4 checks are definately imbued with worthwhile abilities - here's hoping we see more reasonably costed cards in the future.

- dut

certain symbols can run lots of 4 checks, other symbols cannot. order can't run alot of 4 checks because of the fact that it has such high overall dificulty and often needs defender and seal of cessation to run properly. fire can run half 4 checks because almost every foundation has low dificulty and most attacks have low dificulty as well. I do agree with BRT, the use of four checks as a whole is increasing.

dutpotd said:

Thankyou for placing a constructive viewpoint into this thread dut. Cheers!

I'll agree that most if not all of those 4 checks are worthy candidates to be placed into decks, however i've yet to see much of an increase in 1's and 2's in terms of difficulty?

Anybody, somebody correct me please!

@ Trane- My sentiments exactly Mr. failboat.

Cheers

Hanzo.

I'm still very traditionalist. I can't bring myself to go beyond the 8-12 4CC range in any deck. I still think they can lose you a game hard.

Kinda why I won't play a Water deck (most of the good foundations check a 4. I tried making a deck list and literally 2/3rds of the foundations checked a 4).

Bloodrunstrue said:

Hey... as I wrote... I played it at the PotM. All Matt Kohls can say about the deck is "Thank God for Ira Spinta."
I'll be interested to see what advancements people can make to the deck.

Bloodrunstrue said:

Yeah no... you need to "Make a control check against a difficulty of 6."

So players can commit foundations to help pass US AB checks, as well as checking a natural 7 would be a pass.

So one of the counters to the deck is some how increasing control checks by 2.

(IE, Lynette's Multi-Hobbyist x2, & activate. The deck is now dead until the player can find a way to reduce his checks/counter the lynettes.)

HolyDragonCloud said:

water also has some low dificulty foundations, so you can risk running more 4 checks. Water also has alot of six checks. 6+4 is almost as good as five.

I wish I were willing to try it out, but I'm just too worried about it. It burns since I even thought of a lovely little attack-recursion combo in Kyokugen Karate+The Gorgeous Team+Divination.

Mysterious Stance should be seeing play. Also, so should new Siegfried.

MarcoPulleaux said:

Yes, yes it should.

Anybody else wish to contribute? My Aggro deck only has 12 4 checks...

Meh. *{

trane said:

Buaaaaaahahahahah, shows what you know about water.

Water has two six checks worth running. Chester's Backing and Soul of Ling Shen Su. Then it gets Owlface and that's it for their 6 checks.

Meanwhile, all of water's amazing stuff sits at 3 difficulty, 4 check, or both.

Water does get a 5 check attack though.

Tagrineth said:

The idea has always been there that if you can lower your entire deck's difficulty spread by 1, your 4 checks essentially become 5's and so on. The problem is that Water can't really do that. Even if they run all low-cost attacks, they're still running stuff like Chester's, Chinese Boxing, Gorgeous Team and so forth. And their foundation base really isn't strong enough if you try to ditch most of them and go for cheaper spam.

Polygon said:

This man speaks truths.

Water's a good symbol,yeah, But right now i'm debating calling it a splash symbol only :_:

Water has more than enough to stand on its own as one of the better symbols.

The only thing keeping it from shining is a board presence that protects it from Olcadon's Mentoring. Water can wall up with the best of them. Rejection/Battle Prowess/Altered Mind and Body/Life Gain from Chester's Backing can be an absolute wall to get around.

But when almost every other viable symbol in the game also as a method to wall up AND protect its board from Olcadon's Mentoring, all they have to do is slow the pace down a few turns until they can nuke the relevant cards in your SA.

Archimedes said:

Water multi-symbols very well, particularly with Air, Earth and All.

I still say Water is currently the third best symbol in this game. It's hard to differentiate itself from Air unfortunately, but, in the ways that it does, I feel that it's that much better. It has the most reliable kill (Feline), the best life gain/redux (Prowess/Rejection), a slew of amazing characters (Chun Li/Sakura/Seong MiNa), it's just terrific.

Archimedes said:

the only real olcadon's defense is sakura+nature's forces.

So... what I get from this is that more people are running Water? The whole water discussion has kind of taken over the conversation.

As far as I am concerned, running more four checks goes hand in hand with play style as much as it does with deck consistency. If you have the mind set of throwing out foundations that are going to pass as long as that top card is a four check, then your golden. I don't see why you can't run a deck with twenty or so four checks and consistenty pass them every turn. Also, the amount of attacks you decide to run can also change your play style dramatically.

What I do know is that multi-symboling solves this problem easily. If half your hand doesn't match symbols, then you don't have to worry about failing the check on that last foundation progessively sitting at a 7 difficulty!