If I put the Awing title on Tycho and gave PTL and Daredevil...is this hyper mobility worth the 32 point cost?

Or would you rather give him PTL and Expert handling so the awing could do a barrel roll at cost 31

Personally, I want to do PTL and Outmaneuver on him. The awing already has the mobility to get behind folk, and reducing their agi by 1 isn't quite a 3rd attack die, but its close.

Tycho would be exceptionally mobile with these upgrades - but he's still only putting down 2 attack dice, even if he is guaranteed to be pointing his lasers in the right direction!

Personally, I want to do PTL and Outmaneuver on him. The awing already has the mobility to get behind folk, and reducing their agi by 1 isn't quite a 3rd attack die, but its close.

A green with PTL and outmanuver costs 25. i like that!

Something like: http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/73460/color-splash

Yeh, being able to take outmaneuver and another EPT will go a long way to smoothing out the A. Don't forget Chaardan as well. Tycho really only costs 30 with those upgrades, and the green 23.

Tycho at 30 with these upgrades is.... almost certainly worth it. You will need to fly him right, but he is quite the flanker.

Oh yeah forgot about the refit so this: http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/73460/refitted-daggers

Yup, it'll be a fierce list. The A-Wing is basically my favorite Rebel ship, so seeing them being more viable is quite the happy day.

I was afraid that the Z's would make them obsolete so im glad to see the updates too!

It would have been a toss up, but the new toys in aces really give the A-wing a solid niche.

Forget PTL, put Predator on a Green Squadron pilot. On a 2 attack die ship, it's effectively a free TL every turn, so you can use your action for whatever you want.

Hmmm nice Sable! predator and outmanuver for the win

Why not PTL and Expose? Expose could finally make sense. Use it like a switch. When you need defense, take the focus + evade action, when you want offense take the focus + Expose action. That lets you turn your Awing into an Xwing for a turn (3A2E), and keep it a tie fighter when he needs to dodge some shots (2A3E). That's my plan with the Awing Test pilot card.

Why not PTL and Expose? Expose could finally make sense. Use it like a switch. When you need defense, take the focus + evade action, when you want offense take the focus + Expose action. That lets you turn your Awing into an Xwing for a turn (3A2E), and keep it a tie fighter when he needs to dodge some shots (2A3E). That's my plan with the Awing Test pilot card.

The problem is that it takes an action. I'm sure mathwingers will be along shortly to run the figures, but trust me, it's not worth the points ever, especially with Predator and Outmaneuver coming out.

Expose isn't worth it when it replaces either a focus or TL action, I agree with that. But, I'm not suggesting using it to replace either of those, I'm suggesting using in in conjunction with them. The Awing test pilot allows 2 EPTs for Awings. So you can take PTL and Expose, so you can expose and focus, overcoming the major shortcoming of expose. While predator and outmaneuver are both very good, I think they may fall a bit short in comparison. Predator is basically TL, so it's a little redundant. Awings will rarely shoot each turn, so a TL can be picked up on a non shooting round for later use. Outmaneuver is great, removing a green is a big deal, but green dice have 3 evades and red dice have 4 hits. So, it should be better to add a red than to remove a green, it should create minimally more damage. Outmaneuver has requirements, you need to be out of their arc, which won't always be the case, especially without barrel rolls. Expose has no requirements, other than you decide to do it with an action, and PTL should allow you to use that as needed.

I say pick up the TL to use on turn N. On turn N+1, when you have the shot, Focus and Expose, that will give a 3 dice attack with TL+F, which is really **** potent. With PTL and Expose you can basically transform an Awing into an Xwing with a MUCH better dial. A green with PTL, Expose, and Refit is 24 points, that's 1 more than a Red, the dial probably makes it worthwhile

Expose isn't worth it when it replaces either a focus or TL action, I agree with that. But, I'm not suggesting using it to replace either of those, I'm suggesting using in in conjunction with them. The Awing test pilot allows 2 EPTs for Awings. So you can take PTL and Expose, so you can expose and focus, overcoming the major shortcoming of expose. While predator and outmaneuver are both very good, I think they may fall a bit short in comparison. Predator is basically TL, so it's a little redundant. Awings will rarely shoot each turn, so a TL can be picked up on a non shooting round for later use. Outmaneuver is great, removing a green is a big deal, but green dice have 3 evades and red dice have 4 hits. So, it should be better to add a red than to remove a green, it should create minimally more damage. Outmaneuver has requirements, you need to be out of their arc, which won't always be the case, especially without barrel rolls. Expose has no requirements, other than you decide to do it with an action, and PTL should allow you to use that as needed.

I say pick up the TL to use on turn N. On turn N+1, when you have the shot, Focus and Expose, that will give a 3 dice attack with TL+F, which is really **** potent. With PTL and Expose you can basically transform an Awing into an Xwing with a MUCH better dial. A green with PTL, Expose, and Refit is 24 points, that's 1 more than a Red, the dial probably makes it worthwhile

But since you used PtL to use Expose you are now stressed and stuck to do a green maneuver next turn, which resume to a straight or 2 speed moves. Now the dial is not that much better (also considering that the X-Wing has access to the 1 straight and banking move; very useful in a dogfight). Give a R2 unit to the Red and you now have all your 1-2 moves green and act at PS4 instead of 3. Or if you don't care for the PS and greens, just take a rookie pilot without a R2 and save 3pts.

Try using the A-Wing, which ever model you decide on, with Janson then put outmaneuver and opportunist on. Makes a green pilot using the Chardan refit 24. 3 attack -1 to target agility, a Wedge almost.

If I put the Awing title on Tycho and gave PTL and Daredevil...is this hyper mobility worth the 32 point cost?

I say no. Not with Jake Farrell around. If you want a hyper mobile A-wing take Jake with PtL and whatever else you like (I like VI so he can make the most out of his mobility). I don't think Tycho can compete with Jake in cost/effectiveness.

If I put the Awing title on Tycho and gave PTL and Daredevil...is this hyper mobility worth the 32 point cost?

I say no. Not with Jake Farrell around. If you want a hyper mobile A-wing take Jake with PtL and whatever else you like (I like VI so he can make the most out of his mobility). I don't think Tycho can compete with Jake in cost/effectiveness.

Agreed. Tycho with PTL and Daredevil will be hellishly fun to fly and tough to nail down.

As a mathwinger, I am (or at least was before W4 EPTs were all announced) extremely excited for PTL+Expose. For pure offense, PTL currently offers a TL+F, which on a 2 attack ship nets 1.88 average hits. Often times that's not enough to actually do any damage, even if you roll 2 hits. Expose allows you to F+Ex, averaging 2.25 hits now, giving you the firepower of an X wing, but the flexibility of an A wing.

This seemed like a win to me. But then along came Predator and Outmaneuver, which made me start reconsidering PTL+Ex. As someone already pointed out, PTL limits you to straights and 2 speed, negating the best part of the A wing, its dial. Predator is practically a free target lock:

Dice Naked Focus F+TL Reroll F+Reroll

2 1 1.5 1.88 1.38 1.83

3 1.5 2.25 2.81 1.94 2.68

So, even at range 1, you basically maintain the same output as F+TL if you just F along with predator. At R1 without an action, the reroll suffers a bit compared to focus action, but seeing as it doesn't require an action to get the reroll, you can either maintain a stress or boost in order to annoy/block your opponent.

And then there's the matter of Outmaneuver. Flown properly, an A wing should often be out of firing arc of its target, so one can consider the -1 agility to be the norm for an A wing. Lets also pretend the defender has no action, just to make it easy and not have to run multiple attack permutations.

Agi Attack Naked F FTL R FR

0 2 1.0 1.5 1.88 1.38 1.83

1 2 .72 1.15 1.50 1.05 1.46

2 2 .51 .85 1.14 .77 1.11

3 2 .35 .61 .84 .56 .82

4 2 .24 .43 .61 .39 .59

So, I know that's quite a bit of data to look at, but compare a 2FTLvs.2agi to a 2F vs. 1agi; 1.14 vs. 1.15... And you'll see that outmaneuver is basically worth that TL. Furthermore, when coupled with predator, Predator+outmaneuver is pretty much the same damage output (about .1 less) than F+TL. Range 1 is a bit of a different story, you really want at least a focus action at R1, but it's basically now possibly for an A wing to consistantly do damage. And if you start comparing F+Ex vs. F+Outmaneuver+Predator, you'll see that the damage is VERY similiar, but its a point less, and you have an extra agility. Now keep in mind that outmaneuver only works when you're out of arc, so it won't always be active... but then again, would you really want to expose when you're in arc? At least outmaneuver you don't have to decide at PS3 whether or not to use it.

Herm... I suppose you could swarm Cracken down to PS3 and then use expose then =P

If I put the Awing title on Tycho and gave PTL and Daredevil...is this hyper mobility worth the 32 point cost?

I say no. Not with Jake Farrell around. If you want a hyper mobile A-wing take Jake with PtL and whatever else you like (I like VI so he can make the most out of his mobility). I don't think Tycho can compete with Jake in cost/effectiveness.

Daredevil is a lot better than barrel roll, the cost might be better for Jake, and he gets an extra action but Tycho is much more maneuverable.

You say that like Jake can't take Daredevil. Tycho is free to do Daredevil first, but if you build them the same, Jake will have always have wider set of options.

If I put the Awing title on Tycho and gave PTL and Daredevil...is this hyper mobility worth the 32 point cost?

I say no. Not with Jake Farrell around. If you want a hyper mobile A-wing take Jake with PtL and whatever else you like (I like VI so he can make the most out of his mobility). I don't think Tycho can compete with Jake in cost/effectiveness.

Daredevil is a lot better than barrel roll, the cost might be better for Jake, and he gets an extra action but Tycho is much more maneuverable.

You say that like Jake can't take Daredevil. Tycho is free to do Daredevil first, but if you build them the same, Jake will have always have wider set of options.

Why would someone put DD on Jake though? Yes, he can take it, but he ability is a PTL-lite as it is... He should pretty much be taking focus every turn and then BR or Boosting. If he does DD, not only does he not get the focus, but then he is stressed and can't receive any free actions from anyone else to use his ability with others (Kyle, Garven and Cracken come to mind). I don't think DD on Jake would be a good thing.

Tycho on the otherhand, can grab DD and PTL if he wants and DD then boost, or whatever, since stress doesn't concern him (kinda like asteroids don't concern someone else!). Note that you can't use DD as the second action from PTL because it has to be an action on the action bar, which DD isn't.

As good as Jake is, I still prefer the U-turn Tycho. I just imagine the 2 turn, then Daredevil 1 turn, then boost bank to almost fly circles around a ship. Not to mention, Daredevil is going to help Tycho a lot, since it helps him replace his K-turn lost due to overstressing.

And while Jake can take Daredevil, it is such, such a bad idea to, since the stress prevents him from using his ability.

Tycho and Jake have different strengths. It is interesting, with all the complaints about the new stress environment that "unfairly" punishes the Imperials, yet fail to notice how much that hurts Jake. Jake is different than Tycho. they have different strengths, and thus will appear in different squads.