Nope, we covered that. Next.

You "covered" it by claiming that a rule exists, without quoting it like I asked you to do.

We covered it by quoting actual rules text and official statements from FFG, pages ago. You've ignored them time and again, why should I bother repeating it?

To be fair, those quotes contained rather large words. Some even had more than two syllables.

Maybe again, this time using crayon?

Oh, you guys are too much!

Feeding trolls isn't all that bad, as long as you know that you're doing it. Admit it, it's quite funny to watch him pretend like the 'facts' he pulls out of his ass are more consequential than the actual rules and statements made by FFG.

In fact, the X-Wing tournament rules explicitly ban stalling.

Okay, then. For one insane moment, let's assume you're right. Where is the cut off point?

For example, let's say I take the opening, unanswered kill on the first pass. On the second round I decide that I'm not getting any safe shots, and break away to avoid losing a ship to my opponent's turrets. This is my prerogative, no?

On the third round, I decide engaging in combat will still result in an unprofitable trade and continue to avoid his massed turrets, taking no more time than is necessary to set my dials and decide my actions. Still okay?

Fourth round, same thing. My opponent is still flying in formation, so I'm not going near him. More avoidance, still made in good time.

Rounds five and six proceed the same way, with neither I nor my opponent willing to move into a disadvantageous position.

So, oh mighty moral guardian, at what point have I moved from positioning to so-called "stalling"? For that matter, which one of us is stalling? Me, for waiting until he changes tactic, or him, for refusing to alter his?

We covered it by quoting actual rules text and official statements from FFG, pages ago. You've ignored them time and again, why should I bother repeating it?

You "covered" it by quoting a statement which does not appear in the X-Wing tournament rules as published by FFG. I'm going to be very generous and assume that you were looking at the rules for some other game, or a previous version of the X-Wing rules, and not dishonestly making stuff up just to avoid admitting that you were wrong. But you're still wrong.

Where is the cut off point?

As I've said before, the cutoff point is whether you would use the same strategy in a game with no time limit. If you would continue to do the same things even if the game would continue as long as necessary until all of one player's ships have been destroyed then it's a legitimate strategy. If your strategy would have no hope of winning and you would have to do something else then you're stalling.

loaded dices are not part of the FFG standard components and hence by definition cannot be used and are therefore already not legal, according to the official FFG rules

Please quote the exact rule that says this.

You know, when your argument has degenerated to "The rules don't stop me from using loaded dice!" you've pretty much reached the point of self-parody. You probably need to step away from the computer for a day, come back tomorrow, reread everything you've written and have a solid dose of "WTF was I thinking?"

But just for fun, the exact rules which prohibit loaded dice:

During tournament play, each player is required to use components included in official X-Wing products with the exception of third party maneuver templates, tokens, and range rulers, the use of which is addressed below.

I suppose you could try and get around this by microwaving your dice. Fortunately:

The TO is the final authority on any component’s eligibility in the tournament. If a component is ruled ineligible and the player does not have a replacement for it, that player is disqualified from the tournament.

So yes, pretty much explicitly prohibited. Now please, stop making yourself look silly. It's getting uncomfortable for everyone.

We covered it by quoting actual rules text and official statements from FFG, pages ago. You've ignored them time and again, why should I bother repeating it?

You "covered" it by quoting a statement which does not appear in the X-Wing tournament rules as published by FFG. I'm going to be very generous and assume that you were looking at the rules for some other game, or a previous version of the X-Wing rules, and not dishonestly making stuff up just to avoid admitting that you were wrong. But you're still wrong.

There you go, cupcake. Can you believe we already discussed this way back on page 22?!?

Next!

Where is the cut off point?

As I've said before, the cutoff point is whether you would use the same strategy in a game with no time limit. If you would continue to do the same things even if the game would continue as long as necessary until all of one player's ships have been destroyed then it's a legitimate strategy. If your strategy would have no hope of winning and you would have to do something else then you're stalling.

Oh hell, I've just had an epiphany. Hey iP (can I call you iP?) - you're giving us a taste of our own medicine, aren't you? See guys, this is what happens when you use evasive tactics in a situation with no time limit! You just go round.. and around...and around in circles without ever landing a convincing blow.

Guys, *we're* the Y-wings!!!

Oh, iP (I'm just gonna go ahead and call you that, ok?) you truly are a master troll.

Where is the cut off point?

As I've said before, the cutoff point is whether you would use the same strategy in a game with no time limit. If you would continue to do the same things even if the game would continue as long as necessary until all of one player's ships have been destroyed then it's a legitimate strategy. If your strategy would have no hope of winning and you would have to do something else then you're stalling.

Oh hell, I've just had an epiphany. Hey iP (can I call you iP?) - you're giving us a taste of our own medicine, aren't you? See guys, this is what happens when you use evasive tactics in a situation with no time limit! You just go round.. and around...and around in circles without ever landing a convincing blow.

Guys, *we're* the Y-wings!!!

Oh, iP (I'm just gonna go ahead and call you that, ok?) you truly are a master.

Can I be Dutch?!?

I asked you to quote the rules against using loaded dice. You instead quoted some random unrelated rules about having to use official components (which does not exclude modifying those components to create loaded dice), and the general "the TO can ban anything they want" rule that also allows the TO to kick you out of their tournament if they don't like how you repainted your ships.

But I suppose you'll immediately reply to this and congratulate yourself on how awesome you are for "winning" the forum argument, while ignoring the fact that you haven't done anything to prove your claim.

I asked you to quote the rules against using loaded dice. You instead quoted some random unrelated rules about having to use official components (which does not exclude modifying those components to create loaded dice), and the general "the TO can ban anything they want" rule that also allows the TO to kick you out of their tournament if they don't like how you repainted your ships.

But I suppose you'll immediately reply to this and congratulate yourself on how awesome you are for "winning" the forum argument, while ignoring the fact that you haven't done anything to prove your claim.

ITT: dice are completely unrelated to the "components included in official X-Wing products." Seriously, how big is your ass that you have enough room to pull this much bull$hit out of it?

Next.

Honestly i can't believe anyone is still arguing with the guy that claimed not finding evasive flying unsportsmanlike or an example of slow play means you are willing to deliberately waste time setting dials and moving your ships (despite everyone in the thread agreeing that those things were stalling and unacceptable). Even if his opinion in the first is the "correct" one the fact that he then claims that everyone else is not only mistaken but also intentional cheaters that utilize the unambiguously jerkass behaviors makes pretty much everything he says suspect.

Where is the cut off point?

As I've said before, the cutoff point is whether you would use the same strategy in a game with no time limit. If you would continue to do the same things even if the game would continue as long as necessary until all of one player's ships have been destroyed then it's a legitimate strategy. If your strategy would have no hope of winning and you would have to do something else then you're stalling.

Who makes this call? I say I'll happily attack when I see an opening, but will accept the time win as a backup plan. My opponent says I have no intention of attacking and am actively trying for the time win. Who do you side with? What time limit do you provide for re-engaging, or do you summarily boot one of the players from the tournament?

Your position is pedantic, denies the possibility of a stalemate, relies upon you both being telepathic to judge the actual intentions of the players, and of being able to play their game better than them. It really is quite ridiculous for you to continue to stick with it.

page 27 we are getting there

we had a football and a baseball reference, why not one for soccer?

a situation like this where there is a difference between non legal stalling and evasive tactics when in lead isn't that uncommon in games with fixed duration.

In soccer for example you see occasionally towards the end of a game that the team in lead reduces the speed, increases the "keeping the ball in their own half" and generally decreasing their offensive to bring their winning margin over the time. It isn't necessarily considered an "interesting" tactic but also not considered unfair or illegal under the rules, except when the execution of certain standard situations takes too much time, which is the definition of stalling and is covered under the rules. Besides, in general consensus the imitative lies with the team which is going to loose at the moment - they have to adapt even if they have to increase the risk of getting hammered.

While in general this situation is similar the described case in the first post wouldn't really come up in a soccer game, it is the equivalent of:

- one team scores in the first ten minutes and this team cuts back on their offensive

- the loosing team doesn't change its tactics or adapts to the new situations and just let it run

- in the half-time break it accepts defeat and leaves

that wouldn't actually happen - the loosing team might try and fail to adapt, but they usually try and put all the energy into it even with a tactic that is suboptimal in particular in a tournament situation

Who makes this call?

Judge's discretion. If I was in that position and couldn't tell whose claim was correct I'd probably settle it by removing the time limit for that match and having them play until one side is destroyed. If the stalling player continues to obviously stall and have no plan for winning the game then I'd just kick them from the event and move on to the next round.

Also, the fact that enforcing a rule is difficult doesn't mean that breaking it isn't cheating. It might be very difficult to prove that you're using loaded dice and disqualify you, but you're still cheating.

ITT: dice are completely unrelated to the "components included in official X-Wing products." Seriously, how big is your ass that you have enough room to pull this much bull$hit out of it?

Oh FFS. Read the **** rules you're quoting. You must use the components included in official X-Wing products. That does NOT in any way exclude modifying those products to create loaded dice. You know, just like how the rules say "no stalling" but don't specifically ban flying around uselessly just to waste time. Loaded dice are a loophole, just like the stalling "strategy": technically legal, but you're a {censored} if you do it.

I wish he'd try comparing it to Magic again. His poor grasp of the game wasn't sad enough the first time around.

Who makes this call?

Judge's discretion. If I was in that position and couldn't tell whose claim was correct I'd probably settle it by removing the time limit for that match and having them play until one side is destroyed. If the stalling player continues to obviously stall and have no plan for winning the game then I'd just kick them from the event and move on to the next round.Also, the fact that enforcing a rule is difficult doesn't mean that breaking it isn't cheating. It might be very difficult to prove that you're using loaded dice and disqualify you, but you're still cheating.

ITT: dice are completely unrelated to the "components included in official X-Wing products." Seriously, how big is your ass that you have enough room to pull this much bull$hit out of it?

Oh FFS. Read the **** rules you're quoting. You must use the components included in official X-Wing products. That does NOT in any way exclude modifying those products to create loaded dice. You know, just like how the rules say "no stalling" but don't specifically ban flying around uselessly just to waste time. Loaded dice are a loophole, just like the stalling "strategy": technically legal, but you're a {censored} if you do it.

Oh FFS yourself. Show me an X-Wing product that comes with loaded dice. Show me a TO that doesn't have the power to kick you out of a tournament for using them. Show me where FFG defines stalling the way you keep ignorantly describing it.

Next.

I asked you to quote the rules against using loaded dice. You instead quoted some random unrelated rules about having to use official components (which does not exclude modifying those components to create loaded dice), and the general "the TO can ban anything they want" rule that also allows the TO to kick you out of their tournament if they don't like how you repainted your ships.

If you rocked up to our local club with loaded dice, you'd be collecting them AND your teeth from the carpark. How the hell can you justify the use of loaded dice in ANY game system? It's cheating - plain and simple. No other word for it.

Is that an indication of your calibre and integrity? You'd happily use loaded dice because you assume there's no rule against it?

Unbelievable.

Oh FFS yourself. Show me an X-Wing product that comes with loaded dice.

Are you illiterate, or just trolling? The rule says you must use components that come with X-Wing products. The rules do NOT say that you are not permitted to modify those components once you buy them.

Oh FFS yourself. Show me an X-Wing product that comes with loaded dice.

Are you illiterate, or just trolling? The rule says you must use components that come with X-Wing products. The rules do NOT say that you are not permitted to modify those components once you buy them.

XD

If you rocked up to our local club with loaded dice, you'd be collecting them AND your teeth from the carpark.

Oh good, now we can move on to some classic internet tough guy idiocy. If you did that to someone for cheating in a game then you'd be spending some time in prison, if you were lucky enough to avoid getting shot to death in self defense.

How the hell can you justify the use of loaded dice in ANY game system? It's cheating - plain and simple. No other word for it.

I'm not justifying it. It's clearly cheating, even though FFG's tournament rules don't explicitly ban the use of loaded dice. Stalling to reach the time limit is the same kind of thing, you can come up with all the clever loopholes you want, but in the end you're still guilty of poor sportsmanship and/or cheating.

I like the fact my Comments earlier have been totally ignored makes me feel like he had no come back.. ..

Also if We are the Y-Wing are we able to adapt tactics to trap the A-wing? or is that too unsporting and not playing IP's (i like that I think we should all call him IP now.) game??

Anyway.. I just finished making my Popcorn im good now carry on..

At this point, why not admit that this thread no longer has any other purpose than reaching 30 pages.

Sorry kiddo, but my X-Wing core set didn't come with any loaded dice. The rules seem pretty explicit to me.

Where do you live? I'd love to come TO an event for you. There won't be any cheating under my watch, but I can't promise that no one will cry.

Sorry kiddo, but my X-Wing core set didn't come with any loaded dice. The rules seem pretty explicit to me.

Dear god, you really are that illiterate. What part of "modifying" is so hard to understand? The rules require you to use official products. The rules do not require you to use unmodified official products.