Oh FFS yourself. Show me an X-Wing product that comes with loaded dice.

Are you illiterate, or just trolling? The rule says you must use components that come with X-Wing products. The rules do NOT say that you are not permitted to modify those components once you buy them.

The rules also say that the TO is the final authority on the eligibility of anything used in the tournament

Btw, how did this thread run for 550 posts?

If you rocked up to our local club with loaded dice, you'd be collecting them AND your teeth from the carpark.

Oh good, now we can move on to some classic internet tough guy idiocy. If you did that to someone for cheating in a game then you'd be spending some time in prison, if you were lucky enough to avoid getting shot to death in self defense.

How the hell can you justify the use of loaded dice in ANY game system? It's cheating - plain and simple. No other word for it.

I'm not justifying it. It's clearly cheating, even though FFG's tournament rules don't explicitly ban the use of loaded dice. Stalling to reach the time limit is the same kind of thing, you can come up with all the clever loopholes you want, but in the end you're still guilty of poor sportsmanship and/or cheating.

And that's the best you've got? Do you find it necessary to go to tournaments armed in case someone discovers your loaded dice and wants to beat the crap out of you? No wonder everyone is calling you a troll.

just a general side note, in discussion about sportsmanship and fairness, which are mostly attributes to the social interaction beyond respective game itself, it might be worth remembering that the style and tone of your arguments might be taken as a reference on how much you can actually contribute to such a discussion.

still 14 pages to go, carry on

Sorry kiddo, but my X-Wing core set didn't come with any loaded dice. The rules seem pretty explicit to me.

Dear god, you really are that illiterate. What part of "modifying" is so hard to understand? The rules require you to use official products. The rules do not require you to use unmodified official products.

I think that if I've proven anything, it's that I'm a fantastic reader and writer. But please, keep calling me illiterate. It keeps me humble.

Where did you say you went to school again?

How the hell can you justify the use of loaded dice in ANY game system? It's cheating - plain and simple. No other word for it.

I'm not justifying it. It's clearly cheating, even though FFG's tournament rules don't explicitly ban the use of loaded dice. Stalling to reach the time limit is the same kind of thing, you can come up with all the clever loopholes you want, but in the end you're still guilty of poor sportsmanship and/or cheating.

The problem here is that you are combining stalling via meta techniques like fiddling with your dial, which everyone agrees is wrong, with evasive play and running the clock, where there is room for debate since it is something the other person can counter with good table tactics but might not lead to the most exciting game if you don't like cat and mouse.

One is extremely underhanded and shady, the other is at worst slightly ruthless and unfun, but you are combining the two. It's like saying that someone that is pro death-sentence approves of knifing random people on the street.

Oh FFS yourself. Show me an X-Wing product that comes with loaded dice.

Are you illiterate, or just trolling? The rule says you must use components that come with X-Wing products. The rules do NOT say that you are not permitted to modify those components once you buy them.

Wait, what's this? Under 'Component Modification'...?

'All components other than ship models *must* remain unaltered.'

Awww poor iP, so close. So very, very close*.

*Nah, not really. Not even remotely. Poor troll *sad face*

Oh, and just so you know Peregrine, a punch to the face does not warrant the use of lethal force. I'd hate to see you serve a life sentence for manslaughter just because your grasp of the law is even worse than your grasp of this game.

The problem here is that you are combining stalling via meta techniques like fiddling with your dial, which everyone agrees is wrong, with evasive play and running the clock, where there is room for debate since it is something the other person can counter with good table tactics but might not lead to the most exciting game if you don't like cat and mouse.

But it's not really a game of cat and mouse. A game of cat and mouse would be aiming to set up shots while staying away from effective return fire, eventually either killing all of the opposing ships without ever getting hit in return, or getting caught and mercilessly slaughtered. The stalling strategy in question isn't anything like that, it has no hope of ever winning the game without slow play and the time limit.

Wait, what's this? Under 'Component Modification'...?

'All components other than shop models *must* remain unaltered.'

Please stop quoting from whatever obsolete (or entirely imaginary) version of the rules you're using. The current tournament rules do not contain that statement.

The problem here is that you are combining stalling via meta techniques like fiddling with your dial, which everyone agrees is wrong, with evasive play and running the clock, where there is room for debate since it is something the other person can counter with good table tactics but might not lead to the most exciting game if you don't like cat and mouse.

But it's not really a game of cat and mouse. A game of cat and mouse would be aiming to set up shots while staying away from effective return fire, eventually either killing all of the opposing ships without ever getting hit in return, or getting caught and mercilessly slaughtered. The stalling strategy in question isn't anything like that, it has no hope of ever winning the game without abiding by the imposed and necessary victory conditions, which have been acknowledged to be perfectly valid by FFG.

Wait, what's this? Under 'Component Modification'...?'All components other than shop models *must* remain unaltered.'

Please stop quoting from whatever obsolete (or entirely imaginary) version of the rules you're using. The current tournament rules do not contain that statement.

FTFY

But it's not really a game of cat and mouse. A game of cat and mouse would be aiming to set up shots while staying away from effective return fire, eventually either killing all of the opposing ships without ever getting hit in return, or getting caught and mercilessly slaughtered.

No, that would be cat-and-cat. A game of cat and mouse requires someone to be the mouse.

The problem here is that you are combining stalling via meta techniques like fiddling with your dial, which everyone agrees is wrong, with evasive play and running the clock, where there is room for debate since it is something the other person can counter with good table tactics but might not lead to the most exciting game if you don't like cat and mouse.

But it's not really a game of cat and mouse. A game of cat and mouse would be aiming to set up shots while staying away from effective return fire, eventually either killing all of the opposing ships without ever getting hit in return, or getting caught and mercilessly slaughtered. The stalling strategy in question isn't anything like that, it has no hope of ever winning the game without slow play and the time limit.

wrong on the first part, correct on the second and since the second part is part of the game and its rules - all is well

Guys, if Peregrine ever threatens to shoot you outside of a game shop, just run to the corner of the parking lot. Not only will he be unable to actually hit you, he'll likely break down into tears because you cheated.

Guys, if Peregrine ever threatens to shoot you outside of a game shop, just run to the corner of the parking lot. Not only will he be unable to actually hit you, he'll likely break down into tears because you cheated.

I see you're proudly continuing your tradition of inflating your post count without ever adding anything constructive to the discussion.

The problem here is that you are combining stalling via meta techniques like fiddling with your dial, which everyone agrees is wrong, with evasive play and running the clock, where there is room for debate since it is something the other person can counter with good table tactics but might not lead to the most exciting game if you don't like cat and mouse.

But it's not really a game of cat and mouse. A game of cat and mouse would be aiming to set up shots while staying away from effective return fire, eventually either killing all of the opposing ships without ever getting hit in return, or getting caught and mercilessly slaughtered. The stalling strategy in question isn't anything like that, it has no hope of ever winning the game without slow play and the time limit.

Wait, what's this? Under 'Component Modification'...?'All components other than shop models *must* remain unaltered.'

Please stop quoting from whatever obsolete (or entirely imaginary) version of the rules you're using. The current tournament rules do not contain that statement.

Well gosh iP, ya got me there. They actually removed that wording from the last version of the rules. Hmm, why could that be, I wonder? Common sense? Limited imagination on the part of the organizers in that they could not foresee the unbelievable reasoning that only a intellectual pygmy such as yourself could come up with?

But sir, well played - you deserve a golf clap at the very least for that almost Herculean effort of straw grasping you've committed yourself to!

Guys, if Peregrine ever threatens to shoot you outside of a game shop, just run to the corner of the parking lot. Not only will he be unable to actually hit you, he'll likely break down into tears because you cheated.

I see you're proudly continuing your tradition of inflating your post count without ever adding anything constructive to the discussion.

By that measure we should take away three-quarters of your post count, since all you do is repeat the same garbage every time someone proves you wrong. If you're insinuating that a master troll such as yourself deserves better treatment than I'm meting out, you're not going to find much sympathy here.

From Tournament Rules 1.5.1 - Component Modifications:

Are we seriously talking about beating each other up and KILLING each other over this game ?! WTF guys?!

Can we please let this ridiculous thread die and fade away? This is out of control.

Are we seriously talking about beating each other up and KILLING each other over this game?! WTF guys?!

Can we please let this ridiculous thread die and fade away? This is out of control.

Not really. Peregrine was the only one who threatened to kill someone. I suppose that's not technically illegal, since the law only prohibits official murder, not unmodified official murder.

You know, I've wasted enough of my life on this thread. Feel free to continue justifying poor sportsmanship and cling to your precious loophole in the rules. In the end, there's one simple fact you have to face: if you have to resort to stalling and slow play because you're so terrified of losing then you just suck at X-Wing. Meanwhile I'll just be thankful that most of my games are played without a time limit, so pathetic "strategies" like that are doomed to failure.

(And feel free to post more zero-substance boasting about how you "won" the internet. I know you won't be able to resist.)

You know, I've wasted enough of my life on this thread. Feel free to continue justifying poor sportsmanship and cling to your precious loophole in the rules. In the end, there's one simple fact you have to face: if you have to resort to stalling and slow play because you're so terrified of losing then you just suck at X-Wing. Meanwhile I'll just be thankful that most of my games are played without a time limit, so pathetic "strategies" like that are doomed to failure.(And feel free to post more zero-substance boasting about how you "won" the internet. I know you won't be able to resist.)

Let's be fair, you would have won the internet if there wasn't a time limit. This is your world, and we're just a bunch of A-Wings living in it.

This thread just made me think of a wacky, hypothetical situation.

Okay, you know how dice aren't uniform in shape due to how they are made? (thrown into a rock tumbler a couple of times, etc)

Because of this each die should be weighted slightly differently from the others due to each side not being totally uniform in length. What if someone got 10k packs of dice did one million test rolls and came up with a set that rolled crits and evades much higher than average?

I have no idea where I'm going with this, I just wish that someone, somewhere would do it. It would amuse me to see the process in action.

I like the fact my Comments earlier have been totally ignored makes me feel like he had no come back.. ..

Also if We are the Y-Wing are we able to adapt tactics to trap the A-wing? or is that too unsporting and not playing IP's (i like that I think we should all call him IP now.) game??

Anyway.. I just finished making my Popcorn im good now carry on..

I can't stop thinking of him as "He pees" now... pissing up the wall!

So you acknowledge that trying not to get your ships blown up is a viable strategy, and is what is being encouraged. Now the disagreement is whether flying out of arc(in this case range, because of the turrets) is an acceptable way to not be destroyed.

No, the point you keep missing is that taking defensive actions while killing your opponent's ships is a viable way to win the game without stalling. It might be slower than going all-out on offense, but it can still win the game. This is clearly not even close to the same thing as deliberately stalling to reach the time limit with a strategy that has no hope of ever winning the game without the time limit.

Our response to this has been it was a tournament, thus the artificial restrictions of the clock are as good as core rules.

The fact that you found a way to abuse the rules doesn't make it a legitimate strategy.

As well as this "stalling" tactic of not being in range is one easily defeated and that someone unwilling to adapt in order to beat this deserves to lose, because in order to win a strategy game one needs to be flexible.

Obviously it's easily defeated if you have sufficient time . Cornering a fleeing ship and forcing them to fight can take several turns, which means that all the stalling player has to do is make those turns take long enough that they reach the time limit before you can finish catching them. That's not a viable strategy for winning the game, it's just a desperate attempt to delay the inevitable long enough that the time limit saves you from your bad decisions.

And yet in this situation the Y-wing player did not keep trying to chase down the A-wing player. He played 6/7 turns and then rage quit. The time did not run out and thus there was still time for more turns in which he could have chased the A-wing player down. Now clearly the moment he broke formation to chase down the A-wing player the A-wing player has a choice. 1) Try to keep out of the now spread arc of the Y-wings 2) Pounce on one of the Y-wings that is separated from the others.

So in an infinite game the A-wing player keeps running away until the Y-wing player splits his forces. His strategy is only fixed until the point at which the Y-wing player changes his strategy.

Just face it like a man, I outmaneuvered you and you lost period.

Ironically, this is exactly what the evasive player could say at the end of the game.

The difference in my opinion is I don't consider flying faster than someone else outmaneuvering.

If using the dial to your advantage isn't outmaneuvering, then what is? Should you restrict yourself only to slower maneuvers in an attempt to be fair to your opponent? Or should you just not choose that ship in the first place?

Not at all what I'm saying is flying away from someone for rounds upon rounds because your dial has greater speed then the opponents is not something I consider outmaneuvering someone or playing better than the other person. Just my opinion. As I stated before ffg has not changed any rules regarding this so while I personally don't like it I know it's part of the game. I just would choose not to employ that tactic and best someone by truly out flying them instead of running away. Shoot if it was me and I saw my only choice was to run away I would give the other guy the win because he deserved the win for out flying me. I wouldn't want to win that way. Just me tho and how I've always played.

If you are losing then running away doesn't do anything, your opponent would win if time ran out anyway. (assuming a timed game).

In that situation in a casual game I generally go Banzai! and charge him down and hope the dice gods love me!