So, when was the 26th founding? This is very important for modeling the Mentors. Lexicanium and 40K wiki say 738.M41. However, the Mentor Legion WD article mentions they were founded in the middle part of M41. I wouldn't consider 738 exactly middle.

The thing is, if they were founded 738, they are very fresh and that would have to be taken into account - they would be very early in their learning process. Otoh, Honour The Chapter has a Mentors item that is centuries old.

So, which is correct?

Alex

I'd go with whatever source is newer. I like that the Mentors are so new, i'd just ignore the "centuries old" thing or say it was donated by their predecessor chapter.

Thing is, I am not finding confirmation for 783. Mid-millenium is still young enough for the Mentors still being in the process of getting some of their things together, don't you think? A young chapter makes for an interesting set-up, especially the Mentors.

I am thinking +5 Int and +5 Fel right now... they are training others after all. Reroll Int- tests for Solo Mode...

Alex

The Int and Fel bonuses sound suitable. What would be interesting are the Chapter-specific Squad Modes. How about a special perk that lets a Mentor grant all other team members access to a lesser version of his Chapter Squad Modes even when he is not the Squad Leader?

It's not ... ideal, but the core rules kind of sabotage the idea of having a Mentor around to teach when every single random Marine gets to magically share his Chapter-specific Squad Modes as long as he is leader, no matter how good he'd be at actually being a teacher.

When you're the team leader, you get to pick the Oath which in turn determines Codex Squad Modes. Without special talents or Deeds/Distinctions, you can't join other chapter's squad mode abilities. Check out the Errata or my blog page:

http://40kroleplay.weebly.com/3/post/2014/05/rule-clarifications-squad-mode.html

Another, perhaps more interesting trait would be if the Mentor Legion does not actually have its own Squad Modes, but has access to a lesser version of those of any other Chapter the character has ever fought alongside with. This would basically enable a Mentor Squad Leader to make use of the Chapter-specific Squad Modes of any member of his team, greatly increasing versatility at the cost of their power. This would reflect the Mentor Legion's background in not only teaching but also learning from others , and then disseminating this knowledge to other Imperial forces.

I'd prefer to have the Squad Modes be less efficient by way of granting smaller bonuses, but re-working every single Chapter-specific Squad Mode sounds like a chore and would greatly bloat up the rules. Instead, perhaps a "Cohesion tax" in that they simply cost more to activate?

Squad Modes range from OP to... not worth it though. I don't want to break too much out of the usual mold because one thing I have learned is that you mist avoid any chapter being special snowflake.

There have been Mentor rules posted here before, they are a good basis but not the production-grade I am aiming for:

https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=15WvWCEK8_st6ii0HI-HFtBkaRgaOGa8JykmrUfpgz-8

and

http://home.arcor.de/tkis21/Download/Mentor%20Legion.pdf

Well, I think the Solo Mode is something that is always accessible and as such defines the chapter. Therefore I would like to make it this professor of warfare thing.

You could model the joining or activating of other's powers as a special talent, no need to spend a squad mode ability on that.

Provided one had good squad modes...

Alex

When you're the team leader, you get to pick the Oath which in turn determines Codex Squad Modes. Without special talents or Deeds/Distinctions, you can't join other chapter's squad mode abilities. Check out the Errata or my blog page

Ah! I'm sure I must have read it some time, but probably just forgot it. Glad to see this was fixed.

In that case, a perhaps natural idea would be for a Mentor Squad Leader to pick a single Chapter-specific Squad Mode from any source and treat it as a Codex one, thus allowing to "share" it?

Well, I think the Solo Mode is something that is always accessible and as such defines the chapter. Therefore I would like to make it this professor of warfare thing.

Sounds good. I think in my group we treat Squad Modes as the default, and Solo Mode as exceptions, though - hence I am probably looking at it from the exact opposite side.

The truth is probably in-between; what defines the Chapter is just as much how a single member fights as how they fight as a group. With the Mentor Legion, though, the "mentoring" seems to be the most important part, and training others =/= solo.

In that case, a perhaps natural idea would be for a Mentor Squad Leader to pick a single Chapter-specific Squad Mode from any source and treat it as a Codex one, thus allowing to "share" it?

That sounds like a new talent too, don't you think? My thinking was that the Mentors have an Oath that gave them Strongpoint (think targetting web) and any 2 other Codex patterns of their choice (and no bonus effect, just like Ultras who get 4 hardcoded abilities).

What to do about Squad Modes? If you want to do some inspiration type squad mode ability, you'll end up with the Ultramarines power. And for their way of fighting, there is already strongpoint - although you could recrunch it.

I like your ability about learning from others but fear that it might not be in the spirit of the game as presented by FFG to keep a list of chapters you have worked with. And, again, one has to avoid the special snowflake trap. They mustn't be too special even though they are. Maybe restricting it to the abilities that are currently on the team? Though that is also pretty powerful, it just doesn't add anything new to the team.

Maybe they can activate Squad Mode abilities only as Full Action and at a cost of 3? Which would rule out Reaction type powers...

Sounds good. I think in my group we treat Squad Modes as the default, and Solo Mode as exceptions, though - hence I am probably looking at it from the exact opposite side.

The truth is probably in-between; what defines the Chapter is just as much how a single member fights as how they fight as a group. With the Mentor Legion, though, the "mentoring" seems to be the most important part, and training others =/= solo.

Solo Mode can get used without paying Cohesion. Solo Mode abilities can be used even in Squad Mode (at the expense of a Fate Point). If there isn't someone else in Squad Mode in support range, you drop back into Solo Mode.

And, yes, Squad Mode is very defining for a chapter. But you need to model in Solo Mode what the marine can fall back on when he finds himself alone in enemy territory. For the Imperial Fists, for example, this is Siege Master.

Alex

Current state of modeling. Any feedback? (*Evaluate is a starting skill)

Mentors Chapter Advances
Common Lore (War) +10 100
Common Lore (War) +20 100
Command 200
Evaluate +10 400
Evaluate +20 400
Forbidden Lore (Adeptus Mechanicus) 800
Logic 200
Scholastic Lore (Tactica Imperialis) 200
Scholastic Lore (Tactica Imperialis) +10 200
Scholastic Lore (Tactica Imperialis) +20 200
Tactics (any) 100
Tactics (any) +10 100
Tactics (any) +20 100
Mentors Training 1,000
Infused Knowledge 1,000
Into The Jaws Of Hell 600
Technical Knock 500
Total Recall 400

New Talent: Mentors Training
The Mentors are the youngest and most advanced chapter, drawing on lessons from battles all across the Imperium. Their advanced skill reflects and generalizes the way the Deathwatch Training talent expresses specialization in anti-xenos warfare. Therefore, a Mentors Battle-Brother with this talent may always re-roll for Righteous Fury without need for confirmation against any enemy encountered. The GM may rule that this talent does not apply against very new and/or very unique challenges. Such should be a rare exception, however.

Mentors Solo Mode Ability:
Art Of War
Type: Passive
Required Rank: 1
Effects: A Mentors Marine main pursuit is the one of perfecting of the fusion of science, the art of warfare and military technology. The Battle-Brother may re-roll any failed Intelligence tests with a military or technological aspect.
Improvements: At Rank 3 or above, the Battle Brother may count Tech-Use as a Basic skill Untrained skill und unjam weapons using his Intelligence characteristic. At Rank 5 or above, the Battle-Brother gains a +10 bonus to all Intelligence tests. At Rank 7 and above the Battle-Brother’s insight into warfare is so deep that once per game session he can automatically pass any test based on Intelligence with a military or technological aspect (for purposes of Opposed Tests the Battle-Brother is considered to have rolled a 01).

Alex

Beta version is online: http://40kroleplay.weebly.com/40k-roleplay-blog/chapter-rules-mentors

Alex