Okay, all this talk about Vader got me thinking about doing a thematic Black Squadron. So it would go as follow:

Darth Vader+Outmaneuver

Mauler Mithel

Backstabber

Dark Curse

Black Squadron

Quite simple. But now I have 5 points left and too many options to choose from.

1-Engine Upgrade on Vader and Veteran Instinct on either Mauler Mithel to be PS 9-9-6-6-4 or Black Squadron To be PS 9-7-6-6-6

2-Opportunist on Mauler Mithel and Veteran Instinct on the Black Squadron. Being able to shoot with 5 dice in range 1 with a Tie Fighter just sound...... dirty... even maybe... taboo....

3-Push the Limit on Mauler Mithel and Wingman on Black Squadron

4-Stealth Upgrade on Dark Curse and Veteran Instinct on both Mauler and Black Sqaudron to be PS 9-9-6-6-6

5-Predator on Mauler and Veteran Instinct on Black Squadron. Keep 1 point for initiative.

What would you choose? Any other suggestions?

EDIT: Added option 5

i would go with option 2 sounds pretty strong and for an alpha strike a must ;P

with option 4 i would overthink the stealth on dark curse no one wants to shoot him anyways so he could be a good lfanker still with out the stealth maybe stealth to vader or mauler in that case or even backstabber ;P

i would chose 2 ^^

You can always throw opportunist on black squadron. 1) people go for named pilots first so mauler is have a bead on his forehead to start, 2) you need to strip the focus and evades from your target first so a lower skill works well with this as all your other ties will have already attacked.

I like lists 1 and 5, personally. Vader is one of the more dangerous craft, and certainly the most hardy, so Engine upgrade is going to make him just that much more annoying. I'd VI the Black Squadron to bring him up to 6 like Dark Curse and Backstabber (heh, 6-6-6 pilot skill). I don't really like the idea of stealth device on simple TIE units because you just can't rely on green dice, but Dark Curse is one of the better pilots to use it on, admittedly. List 2 isn't bad to me either, since I like idea of using Mauler to exploit more damage, but he's already a huge target for his overall level of dangerousness.

A Cluster Missile on Vader plus DtF on the BSP wouldn't be bad, or just putting Assault Missiles on Vader.

I just came in second at a tourney with that list. I used Vet Instincts on Mithel and the BSP, while giving Vader Squad Leader. Being able to hand out Vader's second action to wherever it was needed at PS 9 won me multiple games.

opportunist was made for Vader, you must use it on vader

and targeting computers on mauler and backstabber

I've also been playing around with a build for Black Squadron, though I would like to have it complete by including Gundark.

You can always throw opportunist on black squadron. 1) people go for named pilots first so mauler is have a bead on his forehead to start, 2) you need to strip the focus and evades from your target first so a lower skill works well with this as all your other ties will have already attacked.

Yeah, I thought about giving opportunist to the Black squadron. It's the most logic choice for the 2 reasons you gave: there is more chance he'll be left alone and more chance that he'll shoot an opponent token free. I just been tempted by the 5 dice possibilty. But yeah, Opportunist on Black and VI on Mauler.

So, you move and shoot at 9-9-6-6-4. Interesting thing is there is a lot of threat in the squadron. Vader can remove one defense dice, Backstabber gain a dice when shooting in the back, Mauler gain one when shooting in range 1 and the Black Squadron gain one when shooting an opponent without focus or evade. Meanwhile, Dark Curse is left alone because of his defensive skill and he's the one without any boost to attack.

How about the PtL on Mauler and Wingman on Black Squadron combo?

@Mikael

I thought Gundark was part of the Obsidian Squadron? I don't have a lot of knowledge of the EU, I might be wrong. If Gundark is really a part of the Black Squadron, I have no choice but to include him into the Squadron. Named pilot trump unamed ones.

And no, I have no association with Red Castle Games. I'm from Quebec, Canada.

Yes, I saw your location after I replied. i was in the process of editing out my question when I got distracted and you replied. Incidentally, I'm also in Canada right now for a conference, but on the other side of it in Vancouver.

And you're right about Gundark. It must have been really late when I was looking that up the other day. So, I guess that means that I should re-think my squadron.

That said, while I certainly like the idea of fielding historical squadrons, it's probably not the best way to win games.

That's not entirely true. The second trench run of Red Squadron was comprised of Wedge, Luke, and Biggs, which is one of the strongest squads in the game.

I'll second Millennium's motion in that I'm playing around with Rogue Squadron builds, and they also have pretty decent synergy as well. Not too sure about any other squadrons, aside from maybe Obsidian though? Winged Gundark and Night Beast are some of the weaker TIE pilots... (though in some situations are just beautiful, of course).

That's not entirely true. The second trench run of Red Squadron was comprised of Wedge, Luke, and Biggs, which is one of the strongest squads in the game.

Do you think the historical builds are competitive by FFG's design?

Maybe. They chose the pilot abilities based on the characters from a thematic standpoint, so it doesn't seem like a terrible stretch of the imagination.

That said, while I certainly like the idea of fielding historical squadrons, it's probably not the best way to win games.

It's true that giving yourself limitations, like respecting a fictional squadron structure, is not the best way to build a team, but they still can be competitive.

That's actually the fun part and I believe a good exercise in team building. Take a theme, build around it, and try to make it the best you can with the limited ressources you have. It can force you to use a pilot or an upgrade you usually don't take, or get you out of your comfort zone by denying you access to your personal win recipe. Is it the most cost effective way to build a team, no. Can it hold its ground in combat, yes, when done right. Is it fun to build and play, hell yes! I'm always up for a challenge.

A Rogue Squadron Build I would love to run

Wedge-PTL, R2

Corran-PTL, FCS

Tycho-PTL, refit

of course maybe dropping wedge to outmanuever/predator and sliding that R2 down to Corran, depending on the E-wings dial,

Thematic builds always depend on how they are built, their are plenty of themed rebel builds available, Imperials certainly are harder to do but most of that of course has to do with majority of the EU focusing on the Rebels

I wonder if it wouldn't have been interesting to have imposed a rule that required builds to conform to the order of battle, at least on the imperial side.

I think the building structure is fine as it is, forcing restriction would not have been a good idea. If you want to limit yourself with restrictions for the challenge or the fun, you can do it. But the freedom to pick the combination of ships and upgrades is also nice. Not everyone is a "roleplayer" or care about theme. No need to restrict them.

I think the building structure is fine as it is, forcing restriction would not have been a good idea. If you want to limit yourself with restrictions for the challenge or the fun, you can do it. But the freedom to pick the combination of ships and upgrades is also nice. Not everyone is a "roleplayer" or care about theme. No need to restrict them.

Good point. I certainly am a roleplayer, and really enjoy that. I also know that it's not for everyone.

I think the building structure is fine as it is, forcing restriction would not have been a good idea. If you want to limit yourself with restrictions for the challenge or the fun, you can do it. But the freedom to pick the combination of ships and upgrades is also nice. Not everyone is a "roleplayer" or care about theme. No need to restrict them.

Good point. I certainly am a roleplayer, and really enjoy that. I also know that it's not for everyone.

So am I.

I can't deny that I'll feel a little discomfort the first time I'll see a fight between Vader and Corran. That's probably why I'm only buying 1 E-Wing, I try to convince myself that it's only a prototype.

I hear you.

I have to say that while I understand that this is a competitive game of tactics, I'll be a little disappointed if I don't have the opportunity to 'get into' the feel of the SWU. I can see that happening if the culture of the gameplay is very meta and imaginative only in the direction of tactical effectiveness. I suppose this will depend on the particular group.

But, to your topic: I'm too new to know what's the most effective build. Have you fielded any of these yet?

I'll second Millennium's motion in that I'm playing around with Rogue Squadron builds, and they also have pretty decent synergy as well. Not too sure about any other squadrons, aside from maybe Obsidian though? Winged Gundark and Night Beast are some of the weaker TIE pilots... (though in some situations are just beautiful, of course).

Ummm...Nightbeast is probably the 3rd best tue pilot after howlrunner and backstabber! WG should see a ton of play in epic.

Early play testing indicates that opportunist or wingman on a black squadron pilot is totally worth the points if they shoot last or are supporting high stress (interceptors and shuttles) craft.

I'm gonna try the Option 2 today. With work, family and other hobbies, it's hard to find the time to play at least once per week.

I've been thinking about the reasoning behind giving the BSP Opportunist. With the idea that it's worth it since they will shoot last, aren't you just better to take a Alpha Squadron Pilot that will always benefit from a 3rd dice without needing the opponent to be stripped out of token or yourself getting stressed. You plan on shooting last with him, so PS4 or 1 should not be a bother, and for the same points you also get a better dial and boost.

Thematically speaking, I can see why I would choose the BSP+Opportunist, but from a competitive point of view, I think you are better served with the Alpha Squadron Interceptor.

As for Wingman on the BSP though, I can't wait to try it.

Okay, got to play 2 games today.

First was option 2, opportunist on Mithel and VI on the BSP. I lost this one. I was not impressed by opportunist, too situational and the stress given put me in a bad spot, combined by the fact I was going against Hobbie with R3A2 and Dutch with a ion turret.

Next one I tried PtL on Mithel and wingman on the BSP. I won this one and the combo was really nice. PtL on Mithel with a wingman turns him into a Vader lite. Being able to evade and focus or barrel roll gives him a lot of survivability. Once dead, wingman continued to be useful to remove some stress after a k-turn. Overall, this combo gives a lot of maneuvrability to the squadron.

Now I need to find the best way to approch during the first rounds.