So, I haven't printed proxies to test out what I think yet, although that is my project for this evening, however, is it just me or does the TIE Phantom seem like it's going to be a freaking monster?

Three of them slinging 12 dice unmodified coupled with an almost un-dogfightable ability to get the hell out of firing arcs seems crazy to me.

Just looking at the pilot cards and the stats / abilities, the Phantom looks like it's one of, if not the most powerful ship in the game.

I realize there is no turret, so the 4 dice are still attached to piloting ability, but just dang .

The rebels don't *really* have a counter for the Phantom in terms of raw dogfighting, unless you are flying a turreted ship. I guess you could try to do some really good guesswork using Advanced Sensors / PTL on a B-Wing, but still.

I'm not complaining, I am already in love with the Phantom, I'm just curious if anyone else sees the cards falling the way I do, or if I'm overreacting.

They have to decloak to fire, they still have to target Biggs first and an ioned Phantom is a dead Phantom. A stressed Phantom can't use his ACD. Flechette's and Ion missiles baby. Flechette's and Ion missiles.

Nope, the Phantom will be a threat to the rebel squads. But flechette torpedoes and stress givers will shut down taking the cloaking action. That will be the counter to the phantom.

ninja'd

Its good but no game-changer. As these guys said, stress and ions will shut it down, and it's not particularly hardy. If it is ever caught in a bad spot it will get rocked by focused fire. And as hard as it may prove to be to outmaneuver, it will be equally hard to fly. Obviously, flying it will come with practice, but it will have one of the higher learning curves in the game.

In the hands of a talented pilot, against lists without turrets, they could well be completely and utterly OP. They have the highest skill cap of any ship to date. But they still have weaknesses, and even the best pilot will struggle against the Falcon, as odds are it kills a Phantom every two rounds(3 if lucky), psuedo rarely in 1.

Sorry, I can't help myself

"Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed. The ability to cloak is insignificant next to the power of the Force."

(I tried to resist, I really did!)

I think all Phantom lists will be good, but not great. They will be pretty fragile if they are caught without a cloak up. They will be great distractions to incorporate into your already existing lists. Your opponent will have to account for the flanking phantom and that SOB can freaking move. You can't let a 4 attack ship wreak havoc at your flanks. They will be great in causing chaos in your enemies formations.

All of the above,

+ Mines, Bombs, Assault M's.

There's also the contraints of the play area, enemy ships and asteroids to take into consideration.

Sure - it will be maneuverable and unpredictable, but there are many ways to counter this and if you have ever tried to whiff a 5-6 agility dice roll with Focus, imagine how that will feel on these fragile birds.

Correct me if I'm wrong but ones opponent can also TL you while you are cloaked I believe, thus set up a gigantic hammering for when you decide to uncloak.

Also, (when going up against careful planning/flying) try and roll off with 1 Agi ( against Wedge), at Range 1, who has Target Lock and possibly a Focus as well.

Wave 1 called to say, hello baby!

TL:DR

I predict that they will be balanced. Both stat wise and skill-curve wise.

I see the phantom in a similar light as the interceptor. Maneuverable but vulnerable to turrets and bad defense rolls. It would not surprise me if they don't see too much tournament use after a while for the same reasons.

Hopefully I'm wrong though, I would love to see more variety in Imperial squad options

Side note, a little pricey but check it out:

Echo

+Opportunist OR Outmaneuver

+Recon Spec

+Adv Cloaking Device

=Win

Phantoms will be scary for low PS lists.

High PS lists (and especially High PS pilots with multiple firing arcs or turrets) will be scary for Phantoms.

It's a great looking ship, but it's pricy, it's fragile when uncloaked and it's certainly not unstoppable.

I think they eat butterflies and Poop rainbows. Past that everything above is true they are a space cannon of death but not a Game changer in the way I think Ion Pulse missiles are going to be, don't get me wrong they are sick for 25 points but not broken.

Phantoms will be scary for low PS lists.

High PS lists (and especially High PS pilots with multiple firing arcs or turrets) will be scary for Phantoms.

It's a great looking ship, but it's pricy, it's fragile when uncloaked and it's certainly not unstoppable.

I hope. Every other list is just all un-named pilots.

In the hands of a talented pilot, against lists without turrets, they could well be completely and utterly OP . They have the highest skill cap of any ship to date. But they still have weaknesses, and even the best pilot will struggle against the Falcon, as odds are it kills a Phantom every two rounds(3 if lucky), psuedo rarely in 1.

I see "OP" used a lot and I think it has different meanings. OP Tournament, the OP above, etc...

What are the different definitions?

In the hands of a talented pilot, against lists without turrets, they could well be completely and utterly OP . They have the highest skill cap of any ship to date. But they still have weaknesses, and even the best pilot will struggle against the Falcon, as odds are it kills a Phantom every two rounds(3 if lucky), psuedo rarely in 1.

I see "OP" used a lot and I think it has different meanings. OP Tournament, the OP above, etc...

What are the different definitions?

In the hands of a talented pilot, against lists without turrets, they could well be completely and utterly OP . They have the highest skill cap of any ship to date. But they still have weaknesses, and even the best pilot will struggle against the Falcon, as odds are it kills a Phantom every two rounds(3 if lucky), psuedo rarely in 1.

I see "OP" used a lot and I think it has different meanings. OP Tournament, the OP above, etc...

What are the different definitions?

Original Poster

Over Powered

Organized Play

i'm sure there's more.

In the hands of a talented pilot, against lists without turrets, they could well be completely and utterly OP. They have the highest skill cap of any ship to date. But they still have weaknesses, and even the best pilot will struggle against the Falcon, as odds are it kills a Phantom every two rounds(3 if lucky), psuedo rarely in 1.

Disagree on the fact I believe Ion Pulse and Flect are going to hurt a Phantom hard, not just turrets.

I see "OP" used a lot and I think it has different meanings. OP Tournament, the OP above, etc...

What are the different definitions?

OP: Over Powered or Original Poster, depending on the context. I don't know about "OP tournament" though.

They have to get target lock and line. A Phantom should be able to avoid your missile/torp ships pretty reliably. Unless you're alos running determination. Either way, then you have to hit without a target lock. A single stress isn't going to hurt a Phantom either.

Few individual ships are going to have the manueverability to chase down a high PS Phantom working to avoid them. Even fewer with missile or Torpedo slots. Honestly, I just don't see them as a threat. Flechette's only work if you have a higher PS, otherwise they are already cloaked and will get to dodge away, take a green manuever, and act like ti never happened. Ions only matter for a turn, and again they'll be cloaked, and can still barrel roll away/evade turtle/focus(depending on the situation) after. Getting both off in the same turn seems unlikely. Blount might work, but again, he has to get a TL, then get the Phantom in arc.

And if every ship you're flying has ordnance on it you've spent a lot of points getting it working.

Now, the Transport will be hell on Phantoms. Jamming them is going to hurt.

They have to get target lock and line. A Phantom should be able to avoid your missile/torp ships pretty reliably. Unless you're alos running determination. Either way, then you have to hit without a target lock. A single stress isn't going to hurt a Phantom either.

Few individual ships are going to have the manueverability to chase down a high PS Phantom working to avoid them. Even fewer with missile or Torpedo slots. Honestly, I just don't see them as a threat. Flechette's only work if you have a higher PS, otherwise they are already cloaked and will get to dodge away, take a green manuever, and act like ti never happened. Ions only matter for a turn, and again they'll be cloaked, and can still barrel roll away/evade turtle/focus(depending on the situation) after. Getting both off in the same turn seems unlikely. Blount might work, but again, he has to get a TL, then get the Phantom in arc.

And if every ship you're flying has ordnance on it you've spent a lot of points getting it working.

Now, the Transport will be hell on Phantoms. Jamming them is going to hurt.

The stress from flechette torpedoes gets applied whether it hits or not. That forces the Phantom to do a green next turn or not be able to recloak if it chooses to fire. The trick is actually getting a couple of stress tokens on the Phantom to deny the cloak action.

Don't forget Hobbie and that dang stress droid. It could really put wrench in the gears for any lower PS Phantoms. Wedge still just turns a cloaked Phantom into a slightly beefier Tie Fighter. Once I could remember that a cloaked Phantom could be shot, I stopped nerd raging. We've been killing stealthed interceptors for awhile so we can still apply the same tactics. Where it gets dicey is that extra move after the decloak.

They have to get target lock and line. A Phantom should be able to avoid your missile/torp ships pretty reliably. Unless you're alos running determination. Either way, then you have to hit without a target lock. A single stress isn't going to hurt a Phantom either.

Few individual ships are going to have the manueverability to chase down a high PS Phantom working to avoid them. Even fewer with missile or Torpedo slots. Honestly, I just don't see them as a threat. Flechette's only work if you have a higher PS, otherwise they are already cloaked and will get to dodge away, take a green manuever, and act like ti never happened. Ions only matter for a turn, and again they'll be cloaked, and can still barrel roll away/evade turtle/focus(depending on the situation) after. Getting both off in the same turn seems unlikely. Blount might work, but again, he has to get a TL, then get the Phantom in arc.

And if every ship you're flying has ordnance on it you've spent a lot of points getting it working.

Now, the Transport will be hell on Phantoms. Jamming them is going to hurt.

The stress from flechette torpedoes gets applied whether it hits or not. That forces the Phantom to do a green next turn or not be able to recloak if it chooses to fire. The trick is actually getting a couple of stress tokens on the Phantom to deny the cloak action.

@ Aminar,

Agreed, take on the squirrely phantom or ignore it and work over the rest of the squad and leave it for last. Tough choice either way. I think the Phantom's abilities will make it the uber interceptor.

I will Echo ( ) the sentiment that its all about PS for them. The 3 is likely to be outmatched by something, and the 5 is 50/50. Echo and Whisper must grab VI as an insurance policy. Which means they aren't grabbing other EPTs.

I definitely think they'll be a list changer. I'm already looking at 3 ship elite lists (something I normally avoid) so I can take away the advantage of their decloak shift.

They'll be something, at least. However, there WILL be counter play, even for just normal squads. Splitting firing arcs comes to mind, and as we all know with Stealth Device, 4 agility doesn't last forever. You can still get 1 shot.

Blocking a cloaked Phantom will be tough, but if they decloak, you have a shot.

Not to mention, if you happen to force the enemy phantom to roll the wrong way, it could REALLY mess up their game plan if they chose turn maneuvers. If you force them to decloak into a spot without having a shot, it won't be so bad. There will be turns where that thing isn't shooting, or at least they SHOULDN'T be shooting if they don't want to get like up. At that point, it isn't too hard to focus on the supporting ships. You dont have to kill all your opponent's ships to win a tournament match, after all. Just 1 ship is enough.