I'm tickled by how many people seem to think being ioned is a non-issue for the Phantom. A ship that cannot shoot might as well not exist. If a full third of your squad can be rendered ineffective by a single ion token, you may want to pause and take note.

Its one thing if it can't shoot permanently, its another if you only lose one round of shooting, because realistically you won't be Ioned 2x(or more) in a a row. Losing one round of shooting hurts, but its not a OMG my game is over moment

Right, and I don't think people should automatically jump to that conclusion. But when a single ship represents over a full third of your list, being unable to use those four red dice for even a single turn is going to hurt. A lot .

X-Wing isn't really a game that's conducive to hard counters, since you can't directly respond to what your opponent is fielding at any given time. I don't see people using more ion weaponry because it counters the Phantom, but rather because it will have increased utility in the upcoming meta.

I'm tickled by how many people seem to think being ioned is a non-issue for the Phantom. A ship that cannot shoot might as well not exist. If a full third of your squad can be rendered ineffective by a single ion token, you may want to pause and take note.

Its one thing if it can't shoot permanently, its another if you only lose one round of shooting, because realistically you won't be Ioned 2x(or more) in a a row. Losing one round of shooting hurts, but its not a OMG my game is over moment

Right, and I don't think people should automatically jump to that conclusion. But when a single ship represents over a full third of your list, being unable to use those four red dice for even a single turn is going to hurt. A lot .

X-Wing isn't really a game that's conducive to hard counters, since you can't directly respond to what your opponent is fielding at any given time. I don't see people using more ion weaponry because it counters the Phantom, but rather because it will have increased utility in the upcoming meta.

Especially because, as we generally seem to be in consensus, the meta will be shifting toward fewer elite pilots. It makes ionizing or stressing one ship more impactful than it would in a build with more ships to spare.

Especially because, as we generally seem to be in consensus, the meta will be shifting toward fewer elite pilots. It makes ionizing or stressing one ship more impactful than it would in a build with more ships to spare.

I think this will make the game more enjoyable long term, because it means you have 2 "metas" on a cycle almost, one is the new elite builds with stress/ions, the other is the swarm/xxbb one. In large areas I expect these to remain balanced, but smaller areas I think will bounce back and forth and one month it will be the Wave 4 meta, the next the older one, and every so often it will line up where it is balanced too

And lets all be honest with our selves we don't play a Star Wars game for generic redshirt fighting generic redshirt, we want Luke vs Vader, Wedge vs Fel, Han and Chewie together in a Falcon vs the world, and this new meta seems to fit that fairly well

Either that or we get Han Shot First, Phantom with support, and builds built with the mindset of the old metagame(cheap generic lists with more numbers). They Rock Paper scissors eachother pretty well. I don't think people will be choosing 3 ship lists. Instead we'll see 4 ship lists with one High PS pilot, be it Wedge, Fel, Han, or somebody with vet insticts.

Either that or we get Han Shot First, Phantom with support, and builds built with the mindset of the old metagame(cheap generic lists with more numbers). They Rock Paper scissors eachother pretty well. I don't think people will be choosing 3 ship lists. Instead we'll see 4 ship lists with one High PS pilot, be it Wedge, Fel, Han, or somebody with vet insticts.

At that level there are tons of possibilities to be had which could very well lead to a much more diverse listbuilding mindset.

Which is a good thing.

There already a ton of lists to be had. It doesn't really change much of anything(other than adding new ships. Wedge and 3 X-wings has always been viable. Han has always been viable. Etc...

Agreed.

Though "quantity trumps quality" is generally accepted as better. Wave 4 could very well make people reconcider that, or at least accept that there will be times when they wish that they had more high PS pilots on the board.

EDIT: I lean towards the quality side of the force myself, so more options there is great for me!

I think we absolutely will be seeing 3 ship rebels and 4 ship imperials for a bit at least. It may settle down after a time, but everyone wants to play with their shiny new toys.

One high PS ship might be a way to try to get the best of both worlds, but with phantoms' ability to shift, I don't think just one high PS pilot will be enough--unless he's in the Falcon. If you guess wrong with Wedge, for instance, your one chance to blast the phantom may evaporate. Then you have to choose peeling off to hunt it down (a gamble), or focus on the rest of the list (exactly what the phantom wants).

Or you have Wedge covering one section, and 3 X's covering the other, either way the Pantom is in trouble. I don't see 3 ship builds as being effective enough in the long run(YT builds aside). I mean, sure they'll happen, but I don't think they'll compete very well. They still lack firepower and durability, and will only be usefull against Phantoms. Even then, they are a gamble not a counter, as initiative, dice, and flying ability still play into the equation heavily. In addition Phantoms put out the hurt, something 3 ship elite rebel builds just can't handle. 3 X-wings has between 15 and 18 health. A Phantom and some ties can knock more than half of that off in a round...

It's more likely we're going to see tactical shifts than anything else when Phantoms come into play.

And don't forgot the Odd Kyle + Ion, Jan + Blaster combo that tends to result in ionizing stealthed ships with little trouble, given that it's a 4 die ion attack turret...

And don't forgot the Odd Kyle + Ion, Jan + Blaster combo that tends to result in ionizing stealthed ships with little trouble, given that it's a 4 die ion attack turret...

Or Lieutenant Blount with Deadeye and Ion Pulse Missiles. He doesn't even need to spend the Focus token, just discard the missile card to deal a damage and place two Ion tokens.

I think blount with IPM and VI is gonna be a monster.

"Oh you've got a stealth device? That's cute, but why don't you go ahead and discard that for me?"

"Cloaked phantom behind an asteroid? Yikes! Hold these ion tokens and give that asteroid my love."

For the cost of a rookie pilot, too. Run him a range band behind your main formation, and you'll see some timid maneuvers from otherwise aggressive flankers.

My question for you is why are you allowing Blount to get a shot on you? A VI whisper or echo with advanced cloak very easily can evade from any target he would like.

First, Echo is the same PS so has a 50/50 chance of taking a blind guess as to where blount is facing.

Second, being a maneuverable ship (albeit the most maneuverable ship yet) doesn't mean you get to CHOOSE to be out of a firing arc. I read that sentiment tossed around a lot and each time it's as ridiculous as the last (if not more so). Has anyone ever shot at your interceptor? Well why did you let that happen?! Were you trying to throw the game?

Third, IF the phantom somehow avoids the gigantic cone of ionization that is Blount's arc ALL game, then you can bet the phantom is not doing what it wants. Dictating the moves of a very maneuverable, very EXPENSIVE ship, with a 21 point ship is a wonderful thing.

Problem is that blount only gives you one shot...., If you have one chance to prevent a phantom attacking for one turn - you'd best know exactly when to make that shot count.

That's true of any ship that gets ioned, only it's more detrimental to the phantom than any other. So I think it's more like the phantom better hope it never gets itself in the position for that shot to count.

First, Echo is the same PS so has a 50/50 chance of taking a blind guess as to where blount is facing.

Second, being a maneuverable ship (albeit the most maneuverable ship yet) doesn't mean you get to CHOOSE to be out of a firing arc. I read that sentiment tossed around a lot and each time it's as ridiculous as the last (if not more so). Has anyone ever shot at your interceptor? Well why did you let that happen?! Were you trying to throw the game?

Third, IF the phantom somehow avoids the gigantic cone of ionization that is Blount's arc ALL game, then you can bet the phantom is not doing what it wants. Dictating the moves of a very maneuverable, very EXPENSIVE ship, with a 21 point ship is a wonderful thing.

I would almost agree with you, except for one thing.

As many people like to point out, an uncloaked Phantom has the "survivability of a Z-95 headhunter". They usually say this as a bad thing for the Phantom. However, they rarely seem to remember that a) this means the Headhunter has pretty crap survivability, and b) it does not have the option to not do that one thing i just said. The Phantom can be cloaked about half the time, which is good for evasion. The phantom can also potentially far outstrip another ships ability to joust. Because 4 base attack dice firing on 4 hp and 2 evade is significantly more deadly than 2 base attack dice firing on 4 hp and 2 evade. So one thing the Phantom has over the Headhunter is that it is much more likely to ice it before it is subjected to return fire. If you bring range 1 into it the Phantom actually comes out ahead. The threat doesn't scale accordingly because the maximum variance of the Phantom outstrips the max evasion of the Z-95 (5 possible hits against 2 possible evades). So it's entirely possible that a player might try to use Blount to counter the Phantom, expecting him to flee in terror of the possibility of being ioned and stressed, only to have the Phantom and another High PS pilot turn and straight-run them and wipe him before he ever fires a shot. Cleaning that little bug-splat off the game's windshield early would be my course of action. Or you could send someone else to do it while the Phantom goes on his merry way on a totally different part of the field. With a generally higher PS, the named Phantoms are liable to be placed after Blount as well. Furthermore, if you're playing with ACD you might well straight up kill him and then cloak to boot. And even if the Phantom doesn't kill Blount, he's already done his damage and cloaked again, allowing him a better chance to whether the fire as other pilots try to take advantage. Someone else can clean Blount up while the Phantom jets off to another end of the board.

Now of course, there are other variables for both players. It's not all cut and dried all the time. In my head as I type this i'm just kinda assuming average rolls without modification. But that does bring me to another point: if you're Blount trying to come in and use your torpedoes, you're likely target locking. But the Phantom, if it's coming up aggressively to match you is liable to focus or target lock (with upgrades) for the purpose of dealing maximum damage. This puts the jousting even more in their favor.

p.s. sorry if the reply seems disjointed, people keep calling my attention and it's difficult to write this all out properly while that's happening, even after reading it over.

I agree, but I don't intend to run Blount in the main formation with the rest of the ships. With such poor stats and a pretty disgusting ability, he won't contribute much and will be a high priority target. I'll probably run him a range band back where his arc can cover the vulnerable flank of my formation better.

So for a phantom to get to him, they'd have to first get past my main picket or take range 3 shots. Also, ONLY Whisper with VI would be able to kill him before he shoots back. Echo would allow for the simultaneous attack rule.

And if the phantom doesn't kill Blount but does damage and then recloaks, then it's losing one of its shields and is stuck cloaked. There would be no jetting off to another part of the board. It's 25% dead, and moving 1 forward and maybe a barrel roll. It's a sitting duck that cannot shoot for that turn.

Anyway, this is all a lot of armchair generalship. I just think it'll be considerably easier for Blount to have a shot against the phantom at some point than it will be to dance around intervening ships and kill him before he can return fire.

Also, if they take a stress while uncloaked, they won't get to cloak again until they take one of their few green maneuvers. This makes them incredibly easy to predict and possibly block.

And if they don't get blocked, they have to recloak as an action which means they are sitting out that combat phase. Or if they have ACD, then they're still uncloaked until they shoot. Which again, is easier to avoid if they are only able to pull one of their few greens. Double stress? Fuhgeddaboudit.

So with an ion, they are essentially out of the game for an entire turn--worse than any other ship in the game. With a stress, they're whole rhythm of uncloak, maneuver, action, fire, recloak is out the window. Brutal stuff for the most fragile ship in the game.

Most fragile ship in the game? Really?

The thing to remember about Blount is the auto-hit with the Ion missiles is a guaranteed point of damage out of 4 on the Phantom, it isn't a lot but it isn't subjected to random dice, if Y-wings could take bombs(I mean they are a bomber, they should get a title or mod to replace a torp with a bomb slot) it could be brutal.for team ups but alas like astromechs are rebel only bombs appear to be imperial only

Most fragile ship in the game? Really?

Technically stand alone it is tied with the Z-95, a better phrase probably would have been, least durable ship for the points

The thing to remember about Blount is the auto-hit with the Ion missiles is a guaranteed point of damage out of 4 on the Phantom, it isn't a lot but it isn't subjected to random dice, if Y-wings could take bombs(I mean they are a bomber, they should get a title or mod to replace a torp with a bomb slot) it could be brutal.for team ups but alas like astromechs are rebel only bombs appear to be imperial only

well, we have to have something.

Most fragile ship in the game? Really?

Technically stand alone it is tied with the Z-95, a better phrase probably would have been, least durable ship for the points

Yeah it was a bit of hyperbole. But at a minimum of over double the cost of a base Z-95, you feel that fragility considerably more.

Most fragile ship in the game? Really?

Technically stand alone it is tied with the Z-95, a better phrase probably would have been, least durable ship for the points

Yeah it was a bit of hyperbole. But at a minimum of over double the cost of a base Z-95, you feel that fragility considerably more.

Like I said… have the two ships joust… we'll see who "feels it more".

Like I said. No.